ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[SMK777]

In this context, an investigator would use the word "sloppy" to describe a careless, disorganized killer. To me, it means he likely left lots of evidence, like DNA and fingerprints, maybe other signs. My speculation is that LE knows who he is, but does not have all the evidence they want and don't want to help him with any of their disclosures.

But if he left DNA and fingerprints at the murder scene as suggested, wouldn’t that in and of itself be enough for arrest?

 

[Hexe]

He obviously went fully prepared and would have known they’d encounter a struggle. Last thing he’d want is his skin underneath the victims fingernails so he was bound to have protected his whole body.

Nothing here is obvious. We don't know how much evidence was left behind by the perpetrator and how well prepared he was.

For all we know he might have left full set of fingerprints and a decent sample of his DNA, but he is not in the databases and there is no obvious connection between him and any of the victims, so finding him will require a lot of hard work for the investigators.

Investigations take a lot of time in real life. No official suspect after a month and a half does not mean the perpetrator was a stealthy ninja, equipped like Dexter. Sometimes it just means the perp is lucky enough to not be arrested yet, I am pretty sure though in this particular case the perp's luck will run out, sooner or later.

 

[Ceska]

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In regards to this case involving a serial killer.... I don't know about most people, but I most definitely tend to think this is a serial killer, this was a very well-thought out attack, I don't see how anyone but a serial killer could carry out a murder of 4 people, and not leave much of anything behind. To me, IMO, it does scream serial killer, for so many reasons.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Nothing here is obvious. We don't know how much evidence was left behind by the perpetrator and how well prepared he was.

For all we know he might have left full set of fingerprints and a decent sample of his DNA, but he is not in the databases and there is no obvious connection between him and any of the victims, so finding him will require a lot of hard work for the investigators.

Investigations take a lot of time in real life. No official suspect after a month and a half does not mean the perpetrator was a stealthy ninja, equipped like Dexter. Sometimes it just means the perp is lucky enough to not be arrested yet, I am pretty sure though in this particular case the perp's luck will run out, sooner or later.

I agree overall, but a 1.5 months is a lot of time in a high-profile case like this. Usually, from what I've seen, for cases that are so high profile, if a POI isn't identified early on, it usually seems to be years until there's a break, if at all. I get this isn't a cold case and I hope that we're just being kept in the dark by PD. I hope they have someone they're tracking and will make an arrest or at least ID a perp soon. I would hate if this case turned into one of those "it's been a year since..." threads.

All of the above is MOO of course.

 

[layer]

Any link for the wet suit case? We discussed it here a few weeks ago and several of us who own and wear wet suits did not see a wet suit as plausible crime wear.

Having followed true crime all my life I have never heard of a murder in which the perp wore a wet suit, hazmat suit, or forensic booties. But anything's possible, I guess. Zodiac wore a freaky costume & mask at Lake Berryesa.

JMHO

 

[10ofRods]

But if he left DNA and fingerprints at the murder scene as suggested, wouldn’t that in and of itself be enough for arrest?

Not if you don't know whose DNA it is. And Idaho doesn't take fingerprints for driver's licenses. If the person is a felon, they'd likely be in CODIS and therefore identified - clearly that isn't the case here.

Presumably, if they DO have DNA, it must be from the intimate zone around the killings and not just associated with one of the many people who had been in the house. Otherwise, DNA isn't going to lead them very far (a point I keep trying to make - which is that there's likely touch DNA from dozens of people inside the house, not all of whom are known to the roommates who survived).

What they need is good evidence that this person did the murder, and then the DNA/fingerprints will bolster the case.

If there's one strong DNA profile in each of the murder rooms, commingled with crime scene elements like blood, that could help more - it can give LE ideas about phenotypes the killer might have (hair color, eye color, ancestry) but most of the time that's not enough to catch someone. And that's presuming that the killer did something really sloppy - like cut himself. If it's all fragmentary DNA, it will be a long slow process to put it into use.

OTOH, if the evidence points to someone known to the housemates (any of them), then the DNA will be of any less use in court (unless it is collected in a manner very obviously connected to homicide, such as a glove that was both sliced in the attack and then lost; or a ski mask left behind).

 

[indicolite22]

In regards to this case involving a serial killer.... I don't know about most people, but I most definitely tend to think this is a serial killer, this was a very well-thought out attack, I don't see how anyone but a serial killer could carry out a murder of 4 people, and not leave much of anything behind. To me, IMO, it does scream serial killer, for so many reasons.

We don't know how much evidence was left behind. LE did not reveal that information.

 

[kittythehare]

MOO It's subjective fiction based on true crime.

Subjective: based on personal opinions and feelings rather than on facts

Bigly!
And it's not like her track record is even a first cousin of near accurate. (She'd still have us believe Brian Laundry is alive and well and running a casino in Syria or something equally daft)
I roll my eyes when she appears. And she invariably appears..
likes to be in there.
I can't.
MOO.

 

[Diddian]

But if he left DNA and fingerprints at the murder scene as suggested, wouldn’t that in and of itself be enough for arrest?

It would only be enough for an arrest if they have DNA and prints on record that they can match them to.

If this perpetrator is not in CODIS and has not voluntarily given DNA, they may have no idea WHO the perpetrator is. If the perpetrator has committed other violent crimes and left DNA and prints at those scenes but is not in CODIS and has not voluntarily given DNA, they could link crimes, but still wouldn't have an identity that would permit an arrest.

They may be dependent upon other evidence to identify their perpetrator and then, only if they have sufficient evidence to justify a judge approving a warrant to collect the perpetrator's DNA and prints would they be able to check for a match.

 

[indicolite22]

I agree overall, but a 1.5 months is a lot of time in a high-profile case like this. Usually, from what I've seen, for cases that are so high profile, if a POI isn't identified early on, it usually seems to be years until there's a break, if at all. I get this isn't a cold case and I hope that we're just being kept in the dark by PD. I hope they have someone they're tracking and will make an arrest or at least ID a perp soon. I would hate if this case turned into one of those "it's been a year since..." threads.

All of the above is MOO of course.

I doubt all the leads in this case have been exhausted. For one, LE has a ton of tips to go through.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree overall, but a 1.5 months is a lot of time in a high-profile case like this. Usually, from what I've seen, for cases that are so high profile, if a POI isn't identified early on, it usually seems to be years until there's a break, if at all. I get this isn't a cold case and I hope that we're just being kept in the dark by PD. I hope they have someone they're tracking and will make an arrest or at least ID a perp soon. I would hate if this case turned into one of those "it's been a year since..." threads.

All of the above is MOO of course.

From my POV, it's a short amount of time. Turnaround time on separating the bio evidence from the forensic vacuum collection was running 45-60 days in Idaho before this, and even with some rush element to it, there is no way to just acquire brand new lab workers right away - this is the kind of thing that's done at the state lab. Idaho has a perfectly good state lab - if the FBI is helping to speed all that up, great, but it changes the chain of possession for evidence and is probably best done by ISP labs.

Then, the DNA has to go for analysis (FBI could assist - indeed, must assist IMO, if there is touch DNA - they need a couple of DNA reconstruction experts). If the initial analysis is done at ISP, that too takes an additional 45-60 days. dou

And, I do not think DNA is going to solve this, anyway.

I do agree that the longer this goes on without the public having a better sense of who did it, the more Moscow, ID and the U of I will suffer, the students and the community. I do think they have a good idea who it is, btw.

 

[Ceska]

We don't know how much evidence was left behind. LE did not reveal that information.

IMO if there had been evidence left behind, this case would have moved past the point where it is at now, which is this case seems to not be moving forward at all. If evidence had been left behind, LE would be doing a whole lot more searching for other things related to that supposed evidence, and no doubt would have asked the public's help (as with the white car).

 

[layer]

But if he left DNA and fingerprints at the murder scene as suggested, wouldn’t that in and of itself be enough for arrest?

It depends on where the DNA and fingerprints were found, and how they were left there. There has to be foreign DNA and fingerprints all over that house. Have you seen the noise complaint bodycam footage? The number of people that have wandered about in that house over the last couple of years, shedding hair and skin and touching stuff, has to be astronomical.

If they found foreign DNA in an incriminating location like mixed in with the victims blood or under their fingernails, or a bloody fingerprint, then they would still have to find the person that it matches. Unless the person that left the DNA or fingerprints is already in some database, that could be a tough nut to crack. We could be in for a long wait, even if the killer was "sloppy".

JMHO

 

[AngTxGal]

<snipped for focus>

I think K took the job out of state because she worked for this company as an intern and they offered her a high paying position upon graduation. College graduates often move away from home when they get an offer like this to start their careers after graduation. Even if they prefer to remain in state, they would not likely turn down a high paying position to start their professional careers. So I don't see this as a signficant factor in K's "readiness to move forward."

From what I understand the company is Extreme Network Securities.
It is a growing global company, so she may have had several locations as to where she could if they were that impressed with her work. She did her internship remotely from Idaho.

What wasn’t mentioned is a long distance relationship for a semester then make a decision to locate to the same city. I would say them dating for five years then her asking to ’take a break’, her graduating and her moving a plane ride away are pretty good signs together.

I would not say it is common for graduates to move that far away from home, but I don’t think that part of the story is related to the Murders.
My belief is the perp is not anyone that has been on the radar in MSM or social media.

JMO

 

[indicolite22]

IMO if there had been evidence left behind, this case would have moved past the point where it is at now, which is this case seems to not be moving forward at all. If evidence had been left behind, LE would be doing a whole lot more searching for other things related to that supposed evidence, and no doubt would have asked the public's help (as with the white car).

How can Joe Public help with DNA identification for example? We don't know what LE is working on behind the scenes. When they could benefit from public's help, they'll let us know.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Imagine that LE has collected 100 different DNA samples from the house (speculation/gaming here only).

What if 50 of those samples have been identified -- the victims themselves plus folks who have come forward willing to be swabbed -- friends, partygoers, family members, previous tenants, landlord, workers/service/maintenance folks etc.

That means the other 50 have not been identified. Those might also belong to friends/family/partygoers but those people haven't come forward to be swabbed.

And LE has no way of knowing which group of 50 contains the perp, if he is even among them at all. The only people who can be ruled out with certainty are the four victims themselves, and *maybe* those among the ID'd who have a rock solid alibi.

Again, all speculation/gaming.

As @10ofRods said, unless there was DNA located such as to be specifically bound up with the crime scene, they can't assume found DNA = suspect.

MOO

 

[Sunny Texas]

There is a factor that to me eliminates a stalker or anyone who had "planned" to kill, especially if Kaylee or Ethan was his intended victim.

Kaylee had only come for the weekend to show her car and Ethan was not a resident there either, he was just staying the night. The killer would have had to be either incredibly knowledgeable about their schedules or be awfully lucky for them to be there that night.

This makes it much more logical to me that something triggered somebody that night, due to sometlhing that happened. This is why it is critical to know where Ethan and Xana were for the unaccounted-for time that nobody is able to confirm their whereabouts. Did they walk home ? Did they come with somebody in a car ? Did anybody go in the house with them ? Where did they enter the house ?

And I find it incredibly strange that Alivea said she saw video of a neighbor's security camera that captured Maddie and Kaylee returning home But yet to my knowledge that camera does not capture Ethan and Xana coming home. How is that possible ? Anyone going into that house would almost certainly approach from the front just like Maddie and Kaylee did when they were dropped off by the rideshare driver. Coming from the college you would still pass the front of the house even if you were going around to the back to go into the sliding door. Did they parachute in ?

M&K were in a car that passed by he neighbor's cam. E&X may have walked from the frat house across Taylor, up the path that led straight to the crime scene house. If so, they wouldn't have passed on the street in front of the neighbor's cam. MOO

 

[CityKid]

I agree overall, but a 1.5 months is a lot of time in a high-profile case like this. Usually, from what I've seen, for cases that are so high profile, if a POI isn't identified early on, it usually seems to be years until there's a break, if at all. I get this isn't a cold case and I hope that we're just being kept in the dark by PD. I hope they have someone they're tracking and will make an arrest or at least ID a perp soon. I would hate if this case turned into one of those "it's been a year since..." threads.

All of the above is MOO of course.

When I was a little kid, Son of Sam spent well over a year rampaging through my city, starting with stabbings, moving up to shootings and finally being caught through a parking ticket. This Moscow case is less than two months old and during that time students have come and gone for winter break, finals etc. I don't think this is enough time to think things are cold. MOO.

 

[MrWilliams]

Apologies if this article has been posted previously.

Crime Stoppers, Canadian law enforcement absent from University of Idaho murders probe

Interesting-Moscow is roughly 4 hours max from the Canadian border.

I wonder if LE has checked with Canada customs to see what white Hyundai Elantras have crossed from the states into British Columbia or Alberta over the past month. Despite the size of the US-Canadian border, there are few post-9/11 entry points (even on foot).

Since 9/11, the Canada Border Service Agency has become much more aggressive and diligent in its day-to-day enforcement, like its southern neighbors.

Like those entering the states since September 11th, it's become routine to experience elevated questioning from CBSA officers, even if you are a Canadian citizen who often travels to and from the US.

US authorities should ask their Canadian counterparts if any white sedans were referred to secondary inspection (i.e., an interview with the driver and vehicle search).

 

[Past Mortem]

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I know this Ex-FBI agents theory is just that, own personal theory, but I think it’s a good one personally.

I believe what is stated in the article, paraphrasing here, but it says that because it hasn’t been solved yet they believe LE has moved away from the inner circle to someone either unknown or on the outer circle.

The theory in this article makes me wonder if the 2 survivors were also targets but the killer unexpectedly encountered Ethan who ‘ruined’ his fantasy or plan and interrupted it enough to force him to flee without following through murdering the downstairs occupants. Maybe started at the top floor working his way down until he came across E and as a result didn’t go any further into the house and instead left out the sliding door on 2nd level?

All MOO plus the article attached is also a theory not active LE.