ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[Balthazar]

I was just pondering this. Some believe strongly that the person would have to have access to the house to be familiar with the inside of it but seem to forget that if a stalking or other situation by an unknown person is what is being dealt with here, I think people need to realize firstly that such behavior IS normal to this kind of criminal (again, IF that is the situation here). They may appear to behave "normally" because their minds allow them to do this despite KNOWING the crimes they have committed because they're NOT normal people. It's actually pretty easy for a psychopath/sociopath to cover up their secret lifestyles/crimes when it comes to the people they're around everyday. These are people who would have tools that allow them to be decently far away from the house, for example, and still be able to see inside, which brings me to the second thing - stalking and similar behavior would include things like using binoculars and/or zoom lenses on cameras to "peep," not to mention sneakily peeping into the windows of the house when no-one was home. If that's what is being dealt with here? The person could a hundred percent have been familiar with the interior of the house without ever having set foot inside it or "knowing" the victims.

Right on! The house is essentially a fish bowl from the backyard - especially at night. Anyone with a pair of binoculars could figure out the layout and where their targets rooms were.

 

[Spb1213]

One (of many things that confuses me about this case) is the timeline, specifically the timing around the known calls to the ex-bf at 2:52. Clearly, K and M were wide awake at that point. Elantra in area between 2:45 and 3:15. Is the suggestion that the murders happened in the earlier part of the 3:00am hour? Seems so risky to assume K and M would be fully asleep so quickly after calling ex.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

This case is similar to the college killings in 1990 at The University of Florida at Gainesville. It is! Rolling, when captured, said he was just trying to show his father that he was "good at something." This is why I don't get involved in trying to figure out the motivations of psychopaths...

www.websleuths.com

K's sister saw the neighbor's footage of K&M's arrival home that night. This was first reported in the week following the killings. I know that it was mentioned in a report by Inside Edition. This IS in the media thread, and it's been mentioned many times on just about every thread on this case. IF X&E spent the evening at the frat house, as theorized by LE, then their logical path back home that night would have been on foot less than 600 feet across Taylor, up the path straight to the front of 1122. We aren't sure that happened, because it's possible they had gone somewhere else besides the frat house that night, so they could have arrived home by another route. Like I said in my post, MOO.

This is in response to 10ofRods, who said, "Source for that? Is it your (unfounded) opinion that the neighbor's cam caught the car? It seems to me that you must either have insider knowledge or MSM is simply not reporting on that.

Where are you reading about K and M being in a car that passed by a neighbor's cam? Needs to be in the media thread for sure."

One thing that is bothering me is E&X's timeline. In some MSM it says they were at the frat house until 1:45AM. In other articles it says LE is still seeking information on their whereabouts that night.

The other thing is this, they have it on a doorbell camera that K&M arrived home at !:56 by car. But there has been no mention of E&X being on that door camera. If E&X walked up the back path from the frat house, they would not be captured on the door camera as they would not be in the front. So my question how do they know that E&X arrived home at precisely 1:45 am? Also how would they know if other people returned back home with them? In other words did they return home with friends to continue the party and those individuals gave them the information that E&X along with themselves arrived home at 1:45 am and this is how LE knows that precise time?

If the party continued after E&X returned home did K&M walk in and join the party in the hour before going upstairs to bed? We know an hour passed because the last call to J was 2:52 am. Were there other individuals there during that hour? If so then it makes sense that after K&M went upstairs and after the last call was placed at 2:52 am, there could possibly be a fight that broke out between E and someone else in which the perpetrator left then returned with a knife. This is my SPECULATION only.

IMO this entire thing is over something that happened at the frat party or after E&X returned home. IMO K&M were killed because they walked in on it and could identify who was there at the time they returned home.

That is why the other two survived because they were in bed and did not see who was present in the house at that time.

This has to be JMO, NOT A FACT, because I do not have the link handy, but in one of the earlier MSM articles it stated that one of the girls on the lower floor heard loud male voices upstairs but just thought it was a party going on. I do not know if anyone else remembers reading that or not. BUT I DO NOT HAVE A LINK SO IT IS JUST MY OPINION.

Another thing from the video where the girls were pretending to be each other, one of the girls pretending to be X says "Can I have a party? It will be just a few friends." This leads me to believe that X was the one who most frequently invited friends over. This is my SPECULATION only.

JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

The following probably isn't related to victims but could be related to the killer's training and mind-set.

CdA and north Idaho has an unhealthy para-military reputation. Several interesting "military" groups around CdA: North Idaho Militia, North Idaho Preppers, Read 3%ers. Aryan Nations was outed in a 1998 lawsuit.

Jun 14 2022 31 para-military arrested for conspiracy to riot.

Jun 1-5 2020 As many as 400 civilians carrying large rifles intimidated Black Lives Matter protesters downtown. Hundreds of armed civilians patrolled. Citing false rumors that antifa elements were planning to come to CdA, they said they were there to protect the town.

Oct 17 2020 Full camo fatigues, with AR-15s, multiple clips who looked like they were pulled off the streets of Afghanistan and ready for war went to a Sandpoint high school demonstration against systemic racism. Read that again - high school demonstration.

Thank you. I would consider this imo jmo to be far more likely to be related than Greek organizations. That info has imo jmo been skewed dramatically.

 

[justme101]

I agree with this analysis; and further, as I have stated before, I don't think the car in the video was an Elantra, I think it was a Nissan Sentra. If so, the cops are stumbling down the wrong alley.

It may be that this is only solved with DNA....if it is ever solved.

Interesting. What makes you think it might have been a Nissan Sentra? Don't think they released the actual image of the car. Others have mentioned software can ID cars and it was so specific to name 2011-2013 Elantra. To me several cars look very similar but rear tail lights seem very distinct for Elantra although I'm no expert.

 

[drmrgrl]

May not be found at all, but if in the general area should be identified by now.

IMO, I think the car was traded in or sold or stuck in a lot somewhere where no one has noticed (used car, Carvana, Carmax, etc)

 

[Strong1]

What is the time frame these days for a complete DNA analysis to come back in a case like this?

10ofRods Can you explain what that process is why it takes as long as it does please?

Wouldn't a case of this magnitude likely have any testing or lab work expedited?

 

[Strong1]

IMO, I think the car was traded in or sold or stuck in a lot somewhere where no one has noticed (used car, Carvana, Carmax, etc)

Could it have possibly been junked and crushed?

 

[LiverpoolUK2222]

Hi to all you amazing sleuthers and hope those who celebrate Christmas had an amazing time. To those who don’t celebrate Christmas I also hope you had an amazing relaxing day, or whatever you do was fun.


I was hoping the murderer would have been found by now, but I do have 100% trust that the police, fbi etc, all agencies involved will catch this monster and get him off the streets. I hope the killer has left lots of his blood on the scene, all over the victims, and hoping he cut himself deep and real bad. I hope he tried washing the blood off himself, in the sink or shower so his dna can be collected even if he thinks it’s all washed down the plug hole. If he wore gloves I hope he couldn’t stop wiping his nose or mouth, get all those germs and dna onto those gloves, a big sneeze would be good. Lots of dna. Then he touches places in the house, touches the victims transferring all dna etc from his snotty gloves. I don’t think this killer is any Rambo, he only succeeded in killing 4 because they were all out cold asleep, drunk, possibly drugs. I have faith that he’s left lots of evidence and not smart like many suggest. These are all my thoughts and my opinions.

 

[z0mer]

IMO, I think the car was traded in or sold or stuck in a lot somewhere where no one has noticed (used car, Carvana, Carmax, etc)

Wouldn't that make it easier to track the car? I suspect they are looking at all the cars that switched owners in the period after the murder.

 

[Sunny Texas]

So if the neighbors camera saw the girls and the couple come home that night, who did the camera catch leaving????

We aren't sure if the camera showed X&E. Some have shown pictures of the neighbors house and said the camera captured cars on the road just to the West of the crime scene but not necessarily pedestrians, if they didn't walk past it. The way I think X&E would have arrived, IF ON FOOT, would have been traveling N to S from frat house to crime scene. K&M would have been in a car likely traveling W to E and then back E to W on the street. There are now interviews with the driver of their vehicle that might give more info. He said he did not pull into their front parking area, but dropped them off curbside. I suppose this might mean he did a U-turn somehow. There does appear to be a way for thru traffic to travel behind the apartments to their East, if the driver went in or out on Linda Lane. It's impossible to get a good view on Google Maps to tell, but it appears one may have been able to drive from Taylor, turning South on Linda Lane, which then curves West and ends right at the parking lot that encircles the apartments to the East of the crime scene. On Maps, there is a tree obscuring the view of the area where one would need to pass to get from Linda Lane to the parking lot, so I can't tell if that is possible. I would like a local to check that out and let us know. Even if so, we know that the landlord of the 6 unit apartments at the spot in Linda Lane where it curves 90 degrees has a camera and has turned over footage to LE. Any car traveling towards or away from that down or up Linda Lane would have been seen.

 

[z0mer]

We aren't sure if the camera showed X&E. Some have shown pictures of the neighbors house and said the camera captured cars on the road just to the West of the crime scene but not necessarily pedestrians, if they didn't walk past it. The way I think X&E would have arrived, IF ON FOOT, would have been traveling N to S from frat house to crime scene. K&M would have been in a car likely traveling W to E and then back E to W on the street. There are now interviews with the driver of their vehicle that might give more info. He said he did not pull into their front parking area, but dropped them off curbside. I suppose this might mean he did a U-turn somehow. There does appear to be a way for thru traffic to travel behind the apartments to their East, if the driver went in or out on Linda Lane. It's impossible to get a good view on Google Maps to tell, but it appears one may have been able to drive from Taylor, turning South on Linda Lane, which then curves West and ends right at the parking lot that encircles the apartments to the East of the crime scene. On Maps, there is a tree obscuring the view of the area where one would need to pass to get from Linda Lane to the parking lot, so I can't tell if that is possible. I would like a local to check that out and let us know. Even if so, we know that the landlord of the 6 unit apartments at the spot in Linda Lane where it curves 90 degrees has a camera and has turned over footage to LE. Any car traveling towards or away from that down or up Linda Lane would have been seen.

There is a car spotted around the time X&E arrived (which returned), there is a white/light colored sedan heading to the house at 02:45-03:15 (not returning I guess since they didn't made that public) and we saw a car on the police bodycam heading to the house at 02:58.

 

[IspyWithMyBigEye]

I am going to defend JD.
An alibis of sleeping is perfectly reasonable at 3am. Not picking up the phone to ten calls (what I consider possible harassment) is perfectly reasonable. Not having the dog attacked is reasonable, the murderer was out to get humans. MOO. I fell terrible for him.

I agree with you.

He may well have had his phone on silent - I often do when sleeping.

 

[z0mer]

I agree with you.

He may well have had his phone on silent - I often do when sleeping.

I do that as well, but still allow phone calls coming through from contacts in case of an emergency. It's probably a bit different if you go to a university and don't want to be called by drunk people.

 

[Sunny Texas]

I respectfully disagree. I know very little about guns - (I'm an Aussie) but logically, in this situation, in order for the killer to succeed, stealth was the key.. Even if a gun is fitted with a silencer, it most certainly doesn't render the gun "silent". Bearing in mind this crime was committed in the dead of night - a very quiet night, shots fired from a gun fitted with a silencer would still be very loud. Cops would be all over the place in minutes. IMO, if the killer was keen to avoid capture, a shooting would be out of the question - far too risky. As things panned out, with the stabbings, many hours had elapsed before anyone was aware of what had happened. Additionally, the terror factor of the manner in which the victims were killed, and the associated not-so-subtle inherent warning to others,IMO was no coincidence but part of the plan.

I have seen many on here state that a gun would be very loud, even with a silencer, and that isn't necessarily true. Look at this video starting about the 2 minute mark, demonstrating the volume of various types of guns with silencers. A 22 would definitely be very quiet. Either of the first two guns would likely not be heard outside the house or even in it if someone had in ear buds or a noise machine, etc. Some criminals do things like shoot with a silencer into a pillow placed over the victim to reduce the sound even further. I know it's moot point in this case, since the perp used a knife, but it does inform our knowledge of his profile. He killed by stabbing, likely because he derived from enjoyment from that up close and personal action.

 

[z0mer]

I have seen many on here state that a gun would be very loud, even with a silencer, and that isn't necessarily true. Look at this video starting about the 2 minute mark, demonstrating the volume of various types of guns with silencers. A 22 would definitely be very quiet. Either of the first two guns would likely not be heard outside the house or even in it if someone had in ear buds or a noise machine, etc. Some criminals do things like shoot with a silencer into a pillow placed over the victim to reduce the sound even further. I know it's moot point in this case, since the perp used a knife, but it does inform our knowledge of his profile. He killed by stabbing, likely because he derived from enjoyment from that up close and personal action.

Check out this video.

 

[Which_pancake]

One (of many things that confuses me about this case) is the timeline, specifically the timing around the known calls to the ex-bf at 2:52. Clearly, K and M were wide awake at that point. Elantra in area between 2:45 and 3:15. Is the suggestion that the murders happened in the earlier part of the 3:00am hour? Seems so risky to assume K and M would be fully asleep so quickly after calling ex.

I don't believe that LE has ever stated an exact time that the Elantra was seen in the area, nor confirmed that the car a neighbor reported seeing on their security tape is the car they're looking for, so the timeframe may not be that tight. MOO

The most recent 12/20 update says the car was seen at the address "in the early morning hours"

 

[drmrgrl]

He didn't have to answer any DM reporters or youtubers. What came out of his mouth is his own responsibility.

And I haven't followed those sites that you say treated him as a suspect, nor have I said anything about his being a suspect.

I don't know why he inserted himself into the story, or why he watched the girls so closely over time at the bar and at the grub truck.

IMO. He was escorting them and looking out for their safety. Actually, it was very honorable. My guess is that another persons presence that very night made them uncomfortable.

 

[mrtnira]

Ninja?

If someone is given to fantastical thinking, where they think they have special stealth skills, or they have other psychic abilities, it might be easier to slip away from reason if there are other triggers.

Ninja by itself isn't a problem. Disciplined students of any traditional military skill generally don't present a problem to others. Fringe participants who are not wholly disciplined and lack other constraint become a problem, that comes with boxers and other sports, and not just "martial artists."

 

[gliving]

This may just be displaying my ignorance, wouldn't be the first time. But I have read a lot of news stories about fraternity hazing. I didn't even know that sororities do it.

Yeah, I'd like a specific example of how sorority hazing could have induced these four murders. I'm just not seeing the connection.