ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

[klind55]

<modsnip>
Has Le confirmed that? Home heating oil is also red and part of me wonders if that's actually heating oil leaking from that pipe right there. Then the other part wonders if that is blood but then how would it seep through all the layers of building materials to drip down like that.

 

[Sandvol]

Nothing about this suggests schizophrenia.

Concur.

 

[saralsim]

She had a job. The range Rover was used. She was graduating in December with a job lined up. Car was a graduation gift or new job sign on bonus? Moo. Many parents give their kids their used car when they buy themselves a new one. Again, moo.

I agree the car is a non issue. People harping on the very used Range Rover are missing the boat. Take your bills and divide them by 5. Then deduct the cost of health insurance/healthcare and groceries for your family. Then factor in parents still providing support in terms of, at a minimum, cell phone. Also factor in that she was looking for roommates in Austin and would continue splitting bills. Purchasing a 2016 base model Range Rover based on your new hire salary isn't unreasonable or shocking. It's equivalent to a new Hyundai Elantra in terms of cost. MOO

 

[acutename]

Seems like a weird thing to say, no? Given they never identified who did that. Or this.

wondered if they had any DNA from the dog/rabbit case

 

[tara83]

Are we concluding that there was so much blood that it was literally seeping out the wall of the crime scene?

LE has not confirmed that was blood.

 

[kalekona]

In freezing weather? Would blood even leave a clean line like that at 30-degree temps?

 

[Prattastic]

We know that the calls from K to J were in regards to their shared pup... Did J have the dog that night? Was he supposed to drop the dog off but never did and that's reason for the late night calls from K and M? Why would K call J about their dog at that hour unless something was up. Was he supposed to bring the dog back that night? DId he take the dog while they were out?
We also know from K's parents that she was in town to show M her new car. How did J take this? If what K's parent's have said is true, that K and J had plans to get back together, don't you think it would make sense that K would also be excited to show J, as well?

 

[Star_crossed]

Just analyzing the report of suspicious activity reported prior and after this crime.

Very few prior reports were reported but after this crime, people are reporting more and you can tell they are being a bit more cautious in watching their surroundings. You can feel how this has affected the community with everyone tuning their ears to any sound, possibly feeling unsafe at this time. It is good that they are on alert and reporting suspicious activities.
I feel truly sorry to the community but they can get a baby cam/ip cam on Amazon and set it up at their windows and probably lock their bedrooms with some weapons.

P.S. IMOO, You can also see that some people in the community are also stroking fears on other simply being suspicious at this time after this crime

Prior Suspicious Activities:

Nov 13 (the day of the crime)	22-M09896 Alcohol Offense Incident Address: TAYLOR AVE; Band Field MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 03:01 Cad Comments: Officer requested a case. Report taken
Nov 11	22-M09845 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 800 blk S WASHINGTON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 15:31 Cad Comments: Rp states that 10-15 minutes ago she saw a male trying to dig at a window near the counseling center at this location. No report.
Oct 30	22-M09393 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 600 blk HATHAWAY ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 12:54 Cad Comments: Rp’s wife believes that she is seeing individuals that are threatening the house and Rp does not see anything and Rp would like an officer to come by the house. No report.	22-M09411 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 400 blk N ALMON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 20:40 Cad Comments: Rp reporting a suspicious vehicle parked at the corner. Officer responded. No report.
Oct 24	22-M09202 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 600 S BLAINE ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 17:11 Cad Comments: Complaint of male at the door asking suspicious questions. Officer responded, no report.

Suspicious Activities Reported after the crime( only few are listed which I felt important and the red font are for interesting reports - one report of someone wearing ski mask on Nov 17):

Nov 14	22-M09933 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: SOUTHVIEW AVE; THE GROVE APTS MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: CLO Time Reported: 10:00 Cad Comments: Male outside taking photos of the upper floors. Rp currently watching the male.Male walking east. Officer responded. No report. 22-M09939 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: E B ST & N VAN BUREN ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 13:13 Cad Comments: Rp states someone knocked on their door and then walked away saying "they have a big dog, try a different house". Officer responded. No report
Nov 15	22-M09961 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address : W PULLMAN RD; UNIVERSITY INN MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition : CLO Time Reported: 07:25 Cad Comments: RP states they received a disturbing email. 22-M09970 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address : 300 BLK N GRANT ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition : CLO Time Reported: 11:29 Cad Comments: Woman walked into the rps house. Stated that she might have the wrong address and was a house cleaner. Officer advised. No report. 22-M09988 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address : 1000 BLK NEZ PERCE ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition : CLO Time Reported: 22:27 Cad Comments: RP reporting she heard someone knocking on her side door, near where her car is parked. Officer responded, no report.
Nov 16	22-M10008 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: W 3RD ST & S JACKSON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 15:10 Cad Comments: Last Wednesday (possibly Nov 9th?) around 2015 a vehicle followed the Rp and then blocked the Rp into the parking for a couple of minutes. RP never saw the people in the vehicle. No report. 22-M10011 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 2300 blk WHITE AVE MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 17:13 Cad Comments: There is a male that has shown up to Rp's apartment multiple times saying that he works for Ziply. Officers responded. No report. 22-M10025 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1400 blk W A ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 22:44 Cad Comments: Got DM on Instagram from someone she doesn't know. Sent a message "Be safe out there". Language barrier. Officer advised. No report.
Nov 17	22-M10030 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: S MAIN ST; IDENTITY MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 03:11 Cad Comments: Report of male acting strange and throwing things into a dumpster. Officer responded. No report. 22-M10035 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 400 blk S JEFFERSON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 08:27 Cad Comments: RP states she thinks someone that has been trying to enter the residence the past few nights. Would like to talk with an officer. Report taken. 22-M10036 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: TROY RD & S WASHINGTON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 09:14:29 Cad Comments: Rp states she was followed when walking home from work. Officer made contact. No report. 22-M10045 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1100 blk E 3RD ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 12:22 Cad Comments: RP could hear someone screaming for help. Officer responded, UTL. No report. 22-M10056 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 2300 blk S MAIN ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 16:42 Cad Comments: RP reporting suspicious vehicle in the parking lot and a person out digging in the dirt. Officer responded and contacted subject. No report. 22-M10058 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1000 blk JULIE CT MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 18:06 Cad Comments: 3rd party report of a subject was standing in the culdesac. Wearing a big jacket and wearing a black ski mask. Officers responded, UTL, no report.
Nov 18	22-M10080 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1100 blk KING RD MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 13:31 Cad Comments: There is a male at the Rp's address who is knocking, asking to come inside, and is refusing to leave. Officers responded and subject warned for conduct. 22-M10097 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 500 blk S ALMON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 18:20 Cad Comments: Rp heard screaming at 18:12 outside her apartment. It sounded muffled. Officer responded, no report. 22-M10100 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 500 blk STYNER AVE MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 19:09 Cad Comments: RP said she saw a male wandering around the area that was there on Monday as well. Officer responded. No report.
Nov 19	22-M10108 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 200 blk SUNRISE DR MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 05:51 Cad Comments: Caller's doorbell rang a few min ago - vehicle parked outside on the street with its lights on. No one standing outside on the porch. Officer advised. No report.
Nov 20	22-M10133 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 500 blk IDAHO AVE MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 02:08 Cad Comments: Rp keeps waking up to noises outside and would like an officer to check the area. Officers responded, no report. 22-M10134 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 400 blk VEATCH ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 03:31 Cad Comments: RP said people went into the apartment above her, then went out of the apartment and stood near the stairs. Officer responded, no report.

This is good but it’s also sad . People are panicking . Even I live in Washington , so not Idaho , and was sitting outside in the dark waiting for my ride and kept looking all around making sure no one was coming up behind me etc . Just felt uneasy . Ughh I just pray they find this person soon

 

[saralsim]

Just analyzing the report of suspicious activity reported prior and after this crime.

Very few prior reports were reported but after this crime, people are reporting more and you can tell they are being a bit more cautious in watching their surroundings. You can feel how this has affected the community with everyone tuning their ears to any sound, possibly feeling unsafe at this time. It is good that they are on alert and reporting suspicious activities.
I feel truly sorry to the community but they can get a baby cam/ip cam on Amazon and set it up at their windows and probably lock their bedrooms with some weapons.

P.S. IMOO, You can also see that some people in the community are also stroking fears on other simply being suspicious at this time after this crime

Prior Suspicious Activities:

Nov 13 (the day of the crime)	22-M09896 Alcohol Offense Incident Address: TAYLOR AVE; Band Field MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 03:01 Cad Comments: Officer requested a case. Report taken
Nov 11	22-M09845 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 800 blk S WASHINGTON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 15:31 Cad Comments: Rp states that 10-15 minutes ago she saw a male trying to dig at a window near the counseling center at this location. No report.
Oct 30	22-M09393 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 600 blk HATHAWAY ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 12:54 Cad Comments: Rp’s wife believes that she is seeing individuals that are threatening the house and Rp does not see anything and Rp would like an officer to come by the house. No report.	22-M09411 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 400 blk N ALMON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 20:40 Cad Comments: Rp reporting a suspicious vehicle parked at the corner. Officer responded. No report.
Oct 24	22-M09202 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 600 S BLAINE ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 17:11 Cad Comments: Complaint of male at the door asking suspicious questions. Officer responded, no report.

Suspicious Activities Reported after the crime( only few are listed which I felt important and the red font are for interesting reports - one report of someone wearing ski mask on Nov 17):

Nov 14	22-M09933 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: SOUTHVIEW AVE; THE GROVE APTS MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: CLO Time Reported: 10:00 Cad Comments: Male outside taking photos of the upper floors. Rp currently watching the male.Male walking east. Officer responded. No report. 22-M09939 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: E B ST & N VAN BUREN ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 13:13 Cad Comments: Rp states someone knocked on their door and then walked away saying "they have a big dog, try a different house". Officer responded. No report
Nov 15	22-M09961 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address : W PULLMAN RD; UNIVERSITY INN MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition : CLO Time Reported: 07:25 Cad Comments: RP states they received a disturbing email. 22-M09970 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address : 300 BLK N GRANT ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition : CLO Time Reported: 11:29 Cad Comments: Woman walked into the rps house. Stated that she might have the wrong address and was a house cleaner. Officer advised. No report. 22-M09988 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address : 1000 BLK NEZ PERCE ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition : CLO Time Reported: 22:27 Cad Comments: RP reporting she heard someone knocking on her side door, near where her car is parked. Officer responded, no report.
Nov 16	22-M10008 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: W 3RD ST & S JACKSON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 15:10 Cad Comments: Last Wednesday (possibly Nov 9th?) around 2015 a vehicle followed the Rp and then blocked the Rp into the parking for a couple of minutes. RP never saw the people in the vehicle. No report. 22-M10011 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 2300 blk WHITE AVE MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 17:13 Cad Comments: There is a male that has shown up to Rp's apartment multiple times saying that he works for Ziply. Officers responded. No report. 22-M10025 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1400 blk W A ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 22:44 Cad Comments: Got DM on Instagram from someone she doesn't know. Sent a message "Be safe out there". Language barrier. Officer advised. No report.
Nov 17	22-M10030 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: S MAIN ST; IDENTITY MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 03:11 Cad Comments: Report of male acting strange and throwing things into a dumpster. Officer responded. No report. 22-M10035 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 400 blk S JEFFERSON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 08:27 Cad Comments: RP states she thinks someone that has been trying to enter the residence the past few nights. Would like to talk with an officer. Report taken. 22-M10036 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: TROY RD & S WASHINGTON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 09:14:29 Cad Comments: Rp states she was followed when walking home from work. Officer made contact. No report. 22-M10045 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1100 blk E 3RD ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 12:22 Cad Comments: RP could hear someone screaming for help. Officer responded, UTL. No report. 22-M10056 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 2300 blk S MAIN ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 16:42 Cad Comments: RP reporting suspicious vehicle in the parking lot and a person out digging in the dirt. Officer responded and contacted subject. No report. 22-M10058 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1000 blk JULIE CT MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 18:06 Cad Comments: 3rd party report of a subject was standing in the culdesac. Wearing a big jacket and wearing a black ski mask. Officers responded, UTL, no report.
Nov 18	22-M10080 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 1100 blk KING RD MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 13:31 Cad Comments: There is a male at the Rp's address who is knocking, asking to come inside, and is refusing to leave. Officers responded and subject warned for conduct. 22-M10097 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 500 blk S ALMON ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 18:20 Cad Comments: Rp heard screaming at 18:12 outside her apartment. It sounded muffled. Officer responded, no report. 22-M10100 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 500 blk STYNER AVE MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 19:09 Cad Comments: RP said she saw a male wandering around the area that was there on Monday as well. Officer responded. No report.
Nov 19	22-M10108 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 200 blk SUNRISE DR MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 05:51 Cad Comments: Caller's doorbell rang a few min ago - vehicle parked outside on the street with its lights on. No one standing outside on the porch. Officer advised. No report.
Nov 20	22-M10133 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 500 blk IDAHO AVE MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 02:08 Cad Comments: Rp keeps waking up to noises outside and would like an officer to check the area. Officers responded, no report. 22-M10134 Suspicious Person/Circumstance Incident Address: 400 blk VEATCH ST MOSCOW ID 83843 Disposition: ACT Time Reported: 03:31 Cad Comments: RP said people went into the apartment above her, then went out of the apartment and stood near the stairs. Officer responded, no report.

I've noticed this too and it's obvious how affected the community is.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

The 911 call must have been extraordinary. The only substantiated facts we have so far are the time it was placed, that one of the surviving renter's phone was used, that when the suspected 'emergency' was discovered other companions were the first call for help and arrived on the scene, the victim was initially described as an 'unconscious' person, and that several (I think that's right) persons spoke to the 911 call line. Apparently the call was chaotic enough that law enforcement was sent to the scene rather than just the EMTs who would have normally (in my personal experience) been dispatched. No wonder it has not yet been released.
Makes me wonder if sometime during that call one of the companions who were called was encouraged enough to investigate further and realized the victim was not merely unconscious. If we knew who those friends were that were called, we also might have a hint at which victim was first seen by the two renters. Do you think things might have been so horrific, as described by some of the first responders, that one of the friends who had been called could have looked in the 3rd floor bedrooms from the backyard apartment parking lot that is now taped off with crime scene tape, saw enough to warrant LE's prompt arrival?
Sorry - so many, many questions!

 

[lowes123]

I can’t keep up with the posts, but I wonder if the girls met a guy at the bar and he felt snubbed in some way. Maybe he followed them home or tracked their locations. I see the killer as an angry man who has a lot of issues. Definitely has experience with knives, maybe prior military or a hunter, he killed 4 people back to back, so he knew the power of the knife. The girls were beautiful and seemed very fun loving, I think he was upset that no one gave him a chance. I’m glad they weren’t, but I was surprised they were not sexually assaulted. I am surprised they don’t have footprints and DNA yet, maybe they do and are keeping that on the DL, because of all the blood that they keep mentioning. Praying they find this guy soon, before he can do this again.

 

[KR72]

My cousin and I used to convince my little brother to lay still out in the field so the vultures would think he was dead and they would fly down. He would try to look dead, and we would laugh. Vultures don’t use their eyes they use their nose!
Dogs likely can tell by our respiration rate, not if we are upright or laying down.
LOL
JMO

That sounds like something I'd have done to my little bro. lol

 

[Armchair PI]

I mean it was a ~$450K house. I have a hard time thinking the foundation/exterior walls were in that bad of shape that a liquid spilled on a bedroom floor is going to run down the outside of the house. Even if true it isn't important to the case.

 

[isabella88]

Are we concluding that there was so much blood that it was literally seeping out the wall of the crime scene?

Personally, no. But the Daily Mail concluded that days ago so it stuck and grew legs. MOO.

 

[debirlfan]

I don’t have the link but it was said earlier that the stains weren’t there in ig pics the girls posted not long ago so you would have to search those for an answer.

If they heat with oil, it's very possible that they recently their first oil delivery of the season.

 

[L.laricina]

KABAR is a particular brand. <modsnip - off topic>

Yes but I also believe it has a metal plate at the top to keep your hand from sliding down the blade and cutting yourself. That would leave bruising at least for the first wound if it was driven in full hilt while you still had blood circulation.

Yes, the pommel guard would leave a mark if the knife were pushed deeply enough with force. Those marks, the dimensions of the wound, slices either end of the wound from the clip point--all would probably be identifying characteristics to a medical examiner. Even nothches in the bone that would indicate the edge angles.

 

[Star_crossed]

Exactly! Of course, the blood would coagulate within minutes (unless victims were hemophilics), and any notion that human blood soaked a mattress and bedding and then penetrated floors, wallboard, insulation, etc. and presented on the masonry foundation is ludicrous.

An adult will have approximately 1.2-1.5 gallons (or 10 units) of blood in their body.

Seriously, spill a few gallons of any liquid on your floor, and good luck finding it oozing from your walls and staining your foundation!

Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Introduction

www.forensicsciencesimplified.org

Principles of Bloodstain Pattern Analysis​

To understand how analysts interpret bloodstains, one must first understand the basic properties of blood.

Blood contains both liquid (plasma and serum) and solids (red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and proteins). Blood is in a liquid state when inside the body, and when it exits the body, it does so as a liquid.

But as anyone who has had a cut or a scrape knows, it doesn’t remain a liquid for long. Except for people with hemophilia, blood will begin to clot within a few minutes, forming a dark, shiny gel-like substance that grows more solid as time progresses.

The presence of blood clots in bloodstains can indicate that the attack was prolonged, or that the victim was bleeding for some time after the injury occurred.

Blood can leave the body in many different ways, depending on the type of injury inflicted. It can flow, drip, spray, spurt, gush or just ooze from wounds

Mysterious black stain leaking from apartment ceiling turns out to be blood - National | Globalnews.ca. What about this though ? Seems it has happened before

 

[Sandvol]

Not all of them.

The original KaBar didn't. It was a fighting knife/bayonet. Later versions were issued; some had serrated edges on top. I think maybe for paratroopers and more of a utility knife.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

This is good but it’s also sad . People are panicking . Even I live in Washington , so not Idaho , and was sitting outside in the dark waiting for my ride and kept looking all around making sure no one was coming up behind me etc . Just felt uneasy . Ughh I just pray they find this person soon

I’m concerned with all the “no reports” . literally not much to refer to if that’s all there is.

 

[karen in New York]

Unless there was a visible knife sticking out of someone's chest - most times our brains don't comprehend a situation this traumatic straight away. Remember, it's 12pm ish and some happy go lucky kids who probably partied heavily the night before walk into their friends house/or whoever it was and witness a friend "unconscious" - maybe he was lying face down? The immediate thought is pure panic, no? No one's immediate thought is I walked in on a murder unless it's blatantly obvious. Especially when it's young college kids.

Usually, the smell of death comes pretty quickly after someone passes away. I am surprised that that smell was not noticed. Makes me wonder if the friends were already celebrating their Sunday and were not really paying attention. This scene just seems so odd to me. At least one of the onlookers should have been worried when their friend could not be aroused. I mean no disrespect to the victims including those who arrived on this scene.