ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

[Sillybilly]

Take a break folks. This thread is closed for a major cleanup as a result of too many Alerts to deal with.

Not sure how long, but probably about an hour.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again.

Threads are specifically dedicated to discussing the case. Do NOT derail any thread with off topic posts that question moderation or removed posts, or other posts that are not directly related to the case under discussion.

Members who join to incite conflict don't last around Websleuths. Go fight somewhere else.

Do not tell other posters how to think or how to post. If you have an issue, Report the post or scroll and roll without bickering over every little detail.

 

[hippest_hobbit]

I have a post on the prior page where the coroner appears to confirm it. Nothing from LE specifically that I’m aware of.

What I heard was this can happen if someone died leaning against that wall. Also most of these college apartments and houses are very cheaply built. Something will break and they will barely fix it until it breaks again.

 

[Audrina]

hi. long time watcher, first time caller!!
my mom used to live on this exact street in college and is absolutely terrified by what happened. i live in Washington for now studying criminal justice, but Idaho will always be my home, and my family and I are planning to donate to each of the families with our upcoming paychecks. I can't imagine this sort of horror, knowing your loved one's last moments were pure fear, desperation, anxiety, and adrenaline. It hurts to think about. but I'm dedicated to seeing this through to the conclusion. these 4 people have not left my mind since November 13.
thank you all for showing such interest in my community. I was around this past weekend in Moscow and people are very grateful for the love and concern (not so much the rumors, but, what can ya dooo...)
I have a google doc of all the articles I've seen come out & maps of the house from the user named Otto posted here which were very helpful.

 

[Audrina]

What I heard was this can happen if someone died meaning against that wall. Also most of these college apartments and houses are very cheaply built. Something will break and they will barely fix it until it breaks again.

yes, hippest hobbit - great name
I am confused why I read some pages back of people not believing it was blood. In my classes I have seen this before in a murder. I am trying to remember which murder. But blood indeed leaked outside the house and it was very scary for neighbors. Blood does indeed coagulate, but if someone is gushing blood from bleeding out, it's like a waterfall (sorry for the trite comparison I can't think of another way to describe it) and the force could easily push the blood down the wall if someone passed away against the wall, and bled out. does this make sense

 

[RossC]

There are questions at the end of the last thread regarding which floor is which. There are three floors in the house. The second floor would be considered the main floor, since the kitchen, living, dining spaces are on that floor. There is no basement. From the front of the house, we see three floors. From the back of the house, we see two.

I have added labels to the front and side of the house as: first, second and third, so we can share a common language when discussing the floors. If the floors should have different labels, such as parking floor, main floor and upstairs floor, I'll be happy to make that change.

View attachment 381613

View attachment 381615
View attachment 381617

View attachment 381618

This map shows the property boundary (red line). The blue lines are elevation lines. Each line represents a 10 foot increase in elevation. We can see that there is a 30-40 foot difference in elevation from the front of the property to the raod/parking behind the property. It would be easy for someone to sit in the trees at the back of the property and look directly into the windows at the back of the house.

View attachment 381619

Latah County

This is just an opinion.

It could be possible that the suspect entered the house through the sliding doors and entered the room of EC & XK which could possibly be the room marked on the floor plan above. The suspect may have realised that they had entered the wrong room but at this point it was too late as they had disturbed EC & XK. The suspect could have locked the room door internally and exited back onto the rear of the building through the window sliding it closed behind them. From here they could have easily re-entered through the sliding door again and head up stairs and into the rooms of MM and KG. From KG's room they could also have locked the room internally and leave via the balcony without having to go back through the apartment.

I think this could explain why they surviving room mates were unharmed and why when they woke they believed their friends to be unconscious as they could have been shouting on them but the door was locked. This also may explain why it took so long to make the police call as without access to the room the devastation behind the door would be unseen.

Assuming all the doors had internal thumb-locks the only room in which the suspect would NOT be able to lock internally and escape would be the room of MM.

Again this is merely speculation but aimed at trying to provide an answer as to why it may have been difficult for the surviving room mates to fully comprehend the situation.

 

[kittythehare]

Re: #1,009 (Google Earth coordinates)

Thank you to the posters who commented and the poster who bumped my post for visibility. I haven't been on WS since the new user interface and I'm having a hard time navigating the posts and replying to comments - apologies!

Today 11.21.22 there was media footage of LE extending the crime scene to the parking area behind the house.

- so this area seems key in terms of exit.

For a better visualization of coordinates given in the earlier post, here's a diagram. View attachment 381761

Great work. I was unable to get it to play when it came in live on Twitter.
My mind goes to someone camping out there awaiting..
Interesting he suggests targets could have been the survivors, if a specific target existed.

That's still a big if in my view.

That this one chose a knife as his or her weapon doesn't necessarily make it any different to the mindless slaughter at Q club.
I'll be holding back on the psychoanalysis because we have no information at all on perp or perps.

 

[O.Incandenza]

We don't know much, but based only on the layout of the house, the fact that the victims were attacked in their sleep, and the fact that the surviving roommates were on the bottom floor, I have to think that the most likely explanation is that the killer was a stranger who was watching the house from the wooded area on the slope above it.

From that perspective, he could see the lights on the top two floors and enter the house once they were off. And he wouldn't necessarily realize that the bottom floor was occupied, especially since those roommates were the first to arrive home and might have been asleep by the time he arrived. Anyone familiar with the house would obviously know that there were occupants on all 3 floors.

Despite what LE have said about it being a targeted attack, I have a hard time squaring an attack on 4 sleeping people in separate rooms with a personal grievance against one of them. But perhaps the attack could have been targeted in the sense that one of the victims attracted the killers attention while he observed them and that was reflected in the crime scene.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Yeah that's what I was thinking but the phrasing sounded to me more like Kaylee bought it on her own. So many variations of "she bought a Range Rover" or "she wanted to show off her new purchase." As opposed to just saying she had a new car, wanted to show off her new car, etc.

I don't think they have said, but she both bought the vehicle and was planning an upcoming trip to Europe. It has been said that she had a successful internship and was offered a very good job in TX, which she was to begin in January. Perhaps she had a signing bonus?? Maybe a family member gave her a sizeable graduation present in either or both the vehicle and the Europe trip.

 

[Sunny Texas]

100% he came in the back sliding door. He watched them from the woods so he could see who slept where easily.
Am I understanding that Kaylee was just visiting, but a prior recent student? If so this coincidental timing is interesting to me. He had to act quickly.

There was some confusion about that. From what I have read, Kaylee had an internship during the summer and was offered a very good tech job in TX beginning in January. She recently spent a week and a half at home, during which time she got her new vehicle. She headed back to Moscow to show that off to Maddie and was planning to move back home on Tuesday. After that, she had planned a trip to Europe before heading to the new job in TX. Perhaps what is left of her classes could be completed mostly online?? From what I understand, her home is close enough she would probably still have been close enough to return to visit roomies or attend end of school events.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Excellent explanation! “Ground level” as a designation by itself should be avoided, since both the first level and the second level have ground-level entrances.

In my area, what we call the bottom level is a "walkout basement." It's a basement on the back side and the entry/ground/1st floor level from the front. I live in a walkout basement that is the opposite. 2nd level is ground level in the front, but 2nd story at the back, with a walkout basement 1st floor that is ground level at the rear of my house. I think in the murder house, that bottom level is referred to as the 1st floor because that's what it is from the main front street entry.

 

[Sunny Texas]

The car is a 2016 Range Rover Evoque. Current resale prices in my area are around $21K although dependent on condition/mileage/options. I could see her getting a loan for that amount quite easily especially if parents cosigned.

Signing bonus from new job? Graduation present from a relative?

 

[Audrina]

Signing bonus from new job? Graduation present from a relative?

A job would give a 2016 Range Rover as a signing bonus? That feels off to me. I think she likely traded in her car and her parents paid the difference as part of a "graduation / congratulations on your new job!!" gift. Do you feel the Range Rover is important in the case? I have not gotten that impression from the pressers but it seems many here like to discuss the car.

 

[Sunny Texas]

In comparing the friend lists of KG and MM on Instagram, it’s interesting that KG wasn’t following her ex, JD, while MM (and XK — couldn’t tell if EC was, his account is private) were all still following him.

I bring this up not to cast suspicion on JD, as LE has been clear about that not being their position, but to add context to the flurry of phone calls from both girls’ phones the night of the murders. Trying to get in touch via MM’s phone makes sense, as it seems like she remained a neutral to him (from a social media standpoint). JMO, of course.

Edited: Corrected an initial

He doesn't seem to have much social media presence. I have a son who is much that way...it just isn't really his thing. She was still friended on FB, and according to the interview with her parents, K & J talked often during the week and half K had just spent with her family. I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Sunny Texas]

A job would give a 2016 Range Rover as a signing bonus? That feels off to me. I think she likely traded in her car and her parents paid the difference as part of a "graduation / congratulations on your new job!!" gift. Do you feel the Range Rover is important in the case? I have not gotten that impression from the pressers but it seems many here like to discuss the car.

Not sure. I know people younger than her who got signing bonuses even larger, but it does seem a little high for that. I think a grad present is more likely. I know even high school grads who have had family members pay for expensive grad presents. It's also quite possible she had been saving up the money. Her parents didn't say directly how she paid for it, but they talk about her being hard-working and so proud of the new vehicle she just purchased that she couldn't wait to get back to show it off to Maddie. I read that kept the make/model a surprise, inferring Maddie was going to be surprised at how nice it was. This is a possibility also.

 

[AngTxGal]

Maybe it was something that wasn't normal at that residence. Motorcycle, Bicycle, Truck?

Inside Edition

K’s sister in an interview, part shown at .58 sec says she found neighbor ring camera footage that shows the girls being dropped off home by the driver.

If that is case, would this same camera not have caught other cars?

The tracks may or may not be important, but deciding that on day 4 of an investigation could compromise evidence. Was the area blocked off preventing other cars? Has it snowed? What about delivery trucks or trash trucks?

 

[OldBackstop]

I think that the killer wanted to kill everyone in that house but, for whatever reason, he was unable to. Locked doors, got spooked, saw a dog, didn't realize the other two were present...Why show up at a crowded house, albeit sleepy and possibly intoxicated, to kill one person one has a grudge against? Too risky, when a single victim can be picked off alone at a later opportunity. There would also be the risk of armed resistance in a house full of people. Murderous grudges have time to waste, I think.

Yes, I thought the same thing. The house was chock full of almost identical blondes. Maybe one of them triggered a guy.....drug deal, a spurned suitor, boyfriend jealousy, the usual list. Then, in the dark.....whoops, wrong blonde, and kept going. You want to ascribe rationality to the murderer, but....well, he killed four people, that is baked in the fact cake, so thinking he only planned to kill one is a leap toward rationality.

 

[Jo Kenda]

We don't know much, but based only on the layout of the house, the fact that the victims were attacked in their sleep, and the fact that the surviving roommates were on the bottom floor, I have to think that the most likely explanation is that the killer was a stranger who was watching the house from the wooded area on the slope above it.

From that perspective, he could see the lights on the top two floors and enter the house once they were off. And he wouldn't necessarily realize that the bottom floor was occupied, especially since those roommates were the first to arrive home and might have been asleep by the time he arrived. Anyone familiar with the house would obviously know that there were occupants on all 3 floors.

Despite what LE have said about it being a targeted attack, I have a hard time squaring an attack on 4 sleeping people in separate rooms with a personal grievance against one of them. But perhaps the attack could have been targeted in the sense that one of the victims attracted the killers attention while he observed them and that was reflected in the crime scene.

Based on the information we have, this has been my thinking as well, particularly if E and X were in the front bedroom which is in an odd spot based on the floor plan (if you didn't have previous knowledge of the house).

 

[Crosscntrymom]

I agree. And that is going to make it almost impossible to find this guy. I am interested in the DNA. Maybe LEO can get some sort of description if they sort out the DNA of the killer. Gender, skin color...whatever else.

Agreed here too. The good thing about TikTok is that it allows guys like this an outlet and a way to interact with the objects of their fascination. Social media holds clues, IMHO

 

[Crosscntrymom]

An Incel interested in one of the girls who was angry with All of them being in relationships and sexually active.

Haven‘t followed the case - but that was my immediate thought: An Incel Prepper

That’s my thought too @Harikari Someone whose attempts to “belong” or connect have been thwarted or rebuffed. Someone whose ego was injured.