ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[1&2&3]

The first thing I would do if my child went missing is put myself in front of the cameras begging for him to be returned. I would stay in front of the cameras, making friends with a local TV station reporter to keep my story live and in front of the local audience after the national buzz had died down.

I would not hide or withdraw from the public's eye as these two parents have.

The more SM accused me, the bigger my campaign would grow in getting the word out that I had nothing to do with my child's disappearance and pleading for his return.

The parents are going to be blamed until this case is solved, if ever.. Just like in the Madeline McCain, Lisa Irwine, Haileigh Cummings, and the many other children who disappear into thin air. Somebody knows something, and that somebody is close to the child.

My opinions only.

 

[Yvettea]

.

It should also be pointed out a lot of the wild rumors and speculation came about because of The Nancy Grace Show . She took incorrect media reports and magnified and sensationalized them. Many of her audience ended up here and the emotional sensationalism took on a life of its own. The show is archived on YouTube . She should be ashamed. So should the people who believed her.

I call it the Nate and Nancy Circus . Some people will do anything for ratings. That is what happened on this case.

I watched a Nancy Grace video of a show on DeOrr Kunz. The interviewer was a Jean Kasaras. I didn't see a problem with the video. If there is another show done by Nancy could you please include the link?

 

[Yvettea]

<Snipped for brevity>
Best wishes. Social media is the best tool to find missing people who are still alive and out there somewhere. If they are lost in the forest we are no help. We are just gossip mongers.

Despite the weaknesses of this discussion group I do not agree that we are gossip mongers. I personally would not take part a site that existed to promote gossip. I have followed this discussion from the beginning (commenting only recently) and actually was impressed with the quality of cooperation among members, yes there has been speculation but I thought not mean-spirited. I may have to rethink the benefit of this type of discussion.

 

[Rayemonde]

Well, I feel sure that the family know people are wondering if the Pi will be investigating the social media bullying in addition to looking for DeOrr, so hopefully they will choose to clear up the confusion by stating on their appeal for money exactly what the funds will be used for.

 

[kammiemc]

I realize he is small, but at three feet in length, I do not see how he could be "hidden" in the creek and not found (or a boot found) by now with all the searching that has gone on. Bodies have arms and legs and aren't going to just roll up and get crammed into a tiny pocket. I'm curious whether in July, the creek was flowing at a capacity that would have have made it possible for him to have drifted downstream to the next confluence and even farther into the Lemhi River? Or, were there parts of the stream where the water was so low that a body could not pass through and that is why it would make no sense to look any farther downstream? If he was able to float farther downstream, when and where would he turn up? Would he have been found by now or could he be snagged somewhere along the banks of a larger creek? I think it's more likely for him to be in the reservoir because he could be buried in muck, but the sheriff seems quite confident he's not there. I keep coming back to JM's response when the operator asked her if they were near water. Do we know if the parents got in the water, especially the reservoir, and looked for him before calling 911? Did they think he had drowned at the time? Because to me that would have seemed like the most likely scenario at the time. MOO.

The sheriff has stated more than once that SAR tore up that creek and investigated every cranny and felt confident in saying that DeOrr is not in the creek with 100% certainty. That is really hard to argue unless you have been there, know the specific creek and can say LE is gravely mistaken. It's not really something you can assume from afar. IMO.


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[Arnie M]

I watched a Nancy Grace video of a show on DeOrr Kunz. The interviewer was a Jean Kasaras. I didn't see a problem with the video. If there is another show done by Nancy could you please include the link?

You are correct , it was host Jean on The Nancy Grace Show , I should have said that.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

<snipped by me>

The parents are going to be blamed until this case is solved, if ever.. Just like in the Madeline McCain, Lisa Irwine, Haileigh Cummings, and the many other children who disappear into thin air. Somebody knows something, and that somebody is close to the child.

My opinions only.

Thing is, in this case, it's possible that genuinely nobody does know anything. If Deorr was taken by an animal, or fell in the creek and has somehow been washed away or trapped under a rock, then it stands to reason that no human being can answer what happened to him. Just as when adults go missing and we say "someone must know something", maybe not, maybe they decided to end it all by jumping off a cliff or hanging themselves in a forest, maybe they had an awful car accident into water or down a ravine. Maybe literally there is not a single person who knows what happened.

In this case the parents are getting criticized in the most part because they are not being seen to do enough - that is my perception of it anyway. Where are the group searches, the desperate pleas for help, the FB pages drumming up volunteers to search, and search, and search again? This is what I feel is missing from Deorr's case. And while I can appreciate several thousand posts here are about the mountain lion theory (and it's not to be ruled out), if that IS what happened, talking about it will never help, the only thing that ever will solve this is feet on the ground.

I don't know, it's a tricky one. It goes down in my Websleuths history as one of the more frustrating cases ever! But if it were my child you can bet your bottom dollar the whole world would know about it, and to achieve that, social media is your best friend.

Apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier posts, not the intention, just want this little man found

 

[neesaki]

I think the assumptions are stemming from the visitor posts on Klein Investigations' FB page ( https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations ) It seems that folks are providing tips and information to the agency that relate to the alleged online harassment of the family (rather than tips on finding the child).

Am I looking in the wrong place ? ...because I've not been able to find anything like that on their FB page.

 

[Rayemonde]

Am I looking in the wrong place ? ...because I've not been able to find anything like that on their FB page.

On the Visitor Posts to Page.

 

[pepelepolecat]

.

It should also be pointed out a lot of the wild rumors and speculation came about because of The Nancy Grace Show . She took incorrect media reports and magnified and sensationalized them. Many of her audience ended up here and the emotional sensationalism took on a life of its own. The show is archived on YouTube . She should be ashamed. So should the people who believed her.

I call it the Nate and Nancy Circus . Some people will do anything for ratings. That is what happened on this case.

Do you have a link to the show? I'm curious ... not sure I'll watch all of it, but I'd like to see what molehills she turned into mountains.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I think the assumptions are stemming from the visitor posts on Klein Investigations' FB page ( https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations ) It seems that folks are providing tips and information to the agency that relate to the alleged online harassment of the family (rather than tips on finding the child).

There are some interesting comments pertaining to libel. Not being an Internet Lawyer (tm), I am not sure as to their accuracy ... but it does answer some questions I'd had specifically about the hostility and harassment that seems to be going on. There are also some comments pertaining to a certain avid harasser and that individual's behavior on other cases.

 

[desert-blue]

The sheriff has stated more than once that SAR tore up that creek and investigated every cranny and felt confident in saying that DeOrr is not in the creek with 100% certainty. That is really hard to argue unless you have been there, know the specific creek and can say LE is gravely mistaken. It's not really something you can assume from afar. IMO.


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I agree - I do not think they could have missed him in the creek (the parts that have been torn up and searched thoroughly). I was just wondering if there was any way he could have gotten farther downstream, where they have not searched (at least not that I know of).

 

[iluvmua]

And technically, they can't sue anybody because it is opinions.

Nobody is making the family read SM.

Right now, it is just opinions.

jmo

 

[iluvmua]

They can worry about what people are saying about them on SM later. right now, they need to totally focus on finding thier child. jmo

 

[desert-blue]

Am I looking in the wrong place ? ...because I've not been able to find anything like that on their FB page.

Here are the two posts by Trina:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208240429517083

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208240468398055

 

[desert-blue]

Go back to July 10th. At that time, when the 911 call was placed, to me the most likely scenario would be that he drowned. The second most likely scenario would be that he managed to stay out of the water and was wandering around. It was the middle of the afternoon in July, so I think animal attack would not have been much of a consideration (at the time) and foul play certainly would not have been high on the list (at the time). MOO.

Fast forward four months. If he had fallen in the water or wandered off, it seems almost certain that some trace of him would have been found. Same goes for the animal attack. All that leaves is foul play, which is a broad term that means that at least one human is involved. So, who is that person? Is it a stranger? Or, is it one of the four POIs? The family certainly thinks foul play might be involved - hiring PI's, putting up posters and billboards, speculating about IR, etc. We don't know what the police think, nor do we know what IR or GGP think (their opinions have not been aired). The POIs have yet to be cleared. The sheriff won't say if he suspects foul play, although he does say he thinks abduction is the least likely scenario. The FBI came and presumably went without issuing a single statement. No official press release from LE in months. DeOrr is still missing. I have no idea what to think at this point. This case, and the lack of information from LE, is incredibly frustrating. MOO.

 

[Rayemonde]

Where are the group searches, the desperate pleas for help, the FB pages drumming up volunteers to search, and search, and search again? This is what I feel is missing from Deorr's case. And while I can appreciate several thousand posts here are about the mountain lion theory (and it's not to be ruled out), if that IS what happened, talking about it will never help, the only thing that ever will solve this is feet on the ground.

RBBM. I think you've hit the nail on the head here. And I think that the parents can't really be blamed for this - Bowerman said on Tricia's show that that he has told search and rescue organisations not to bother searching for DeOrr, as he's confident that they haven't missed anything up there. This is bizarre, to my way of thinking... Things change in the forest, things that have been buried or sank may resurface; scraps of material and that kind of thing. We all know there are cases where important evidence has only been found years later despite extensive searches. So why on earth is Bowerman turning searchers away?? I did hear rumour that he didn't want any more large-scale searches until the FBI report was back, so maybe he will allow a big search in the Spring now that the report is back?

The only other reasons I can think of why he might not want big searches there are 1. In case people get lost or injured whilst searching, 2. In case troublemakers go there to search and end up causing trouble or even planting evidence, 3. He has reason to believe that the answers to DeOrr's disappearance won't be found on the mountain. 1. and 2. could be negated by only allowing an established professional search and rescue organisation to search. 3. could mean that he has more information than we do, or it could just mean that he thinks his search was so thorough that they can't possible have missed anything.

I hope the family will try to organise a new, large-scale search by professionals in the Spring.

 

[Rayemonde]

And technically, they can't sue anybody because it is opinions.

Nobody is making the family read SM.

Right now, it is just opinions.

jmo

I don't know what laws are in place in Idaho, but where I live they would be able to press charges against these people... We have special laws against that sort of thing, such as the malicious communications act and anti-stalking and harassment legislation. If they were here, I'm sure they would be able to get a restraining order against the people involved to stop them posting any more crap online. And they wouldn't need to pay lawyers or PI's to handle it, because it would be a criminal case not a civil case.

 

[Arnie M]

Do you have a link to the show? I'm curious ... not sure I'll watch all of it, but I'd like to see what molehills she turned into mountains.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...round-10-July-2015-13&p=12123768#post12123768

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...round-10-July-2015-13&p=12122103#post12122103

 

[ILOKAL]

And technically, they can't sue anybody because it is opinions.

Nobody is making the family read SM.

Right now, it is just opinions.

jmo

It's just not that cut and dry. So many people think they can say anything they want under the guise of opinion and protection of The First Amendment, but that's just not the way it is. From some of the things I've been told have been said, I'd say some posters might be in for a rude awakening.