ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[DexterMorgan]

Does Idaho have grizzly bears? I don't think a black bear would attack unless if DeOrr stumbled upon some cubs. Black bears really are not that mean.
And bears are really not to graceful lol their kinda cute how clumsy they are.
Now I bear I think they'd actually hear unless if it happen far from camp.

Agree. Someone would have heard the roaring of the bear or something. But cats are quicker and quieter for the most part.

 

[EllieBee]

Does Idaho have grizzly bears? I don't think a black bear would attack unless if DeOrr stumbled upon some cubs. Black bears really are not that mean.
And bears are really not to graceful lol their kinda cute how clumsy they are.
Now I bear I think they'd actually hear unless if it happen far from camp.

Not that I think a non-human animal had anything to do with Deorr going missing, but yes; bears will kill you. And as evidenced by my avatar pic, I ADORE bears. But they are wild animals and will behave as such. They are not cutey-pie pet material.


http://www.adn.com/article/lone-predatory-black-bears-responsible-most-human-attacks

 

[EllieBee]

That's amazing, on top of a restaurant. Wow.

It was a stuffed, taxidermy mountain lion. He was in the same position, same place, the follwing day.

 

[Angiebla]

Does Idaho have grizzly bears? I don't think a black bear would attack unless if DeOrr stumbled upon some cubs. Black bears really are not that mean.
And bears are really not to graceful lol their kinda cute how clumsy they are.
Now I bear I think they'd actually hear unless if it happen far from camp.

Wild animals are unpredictable. The sheriff said himself they saw a bear and wolves at the campsite.

 

[kammiemc]

It was a stuffed, taxidermy mountain lion. He was in the same position, same place, the follwing day.

Oh, that's funny. I referenced that mountain lions are rarely seen (in the region north of there) except taxidermied in restaurants and casinos. Case in point!!!

It was super cool pic nonetheless.

 

[EllieBee]

"We've got a pack of wolves in there -- about 15 of them," Bowerman said. "We actually chased one out the day before yesterday."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

Again, I do NOT think an animal got Deorr, but wanted to illustrate that if an animal WERE to blame, there are many animals in that area capable of killing a baby. I think we have to be open to options that we don't believe in our guts, because as long as we don't know for SURE, anything is possible.

 

[EllieBee]

Oh, that's funny. I referenced that mountain lions are rarely seen (in the region north of there) except taxidermied in restaurants and casinos. Case in point!!!

It was super cool pic nonetheless.

No doubt.

O/T: When my DD was in grade school, we took a field trip to National Military Park in Vicksburg, MS. In addition, we visited one of the few antebellum homes still open to the public. There was an outbuilding there that the current owners (very gracious people who lived there!) told us was the honeymoon lodge and the place where they lived for a year while all the restorations were being done.

We walked in. And HEADS. I mean HEADS. Every square inch of the walls. Over the bed, over the stove, over the toilet. HEADS. I like to have passed out. Every other part of our tour was lovely and might as well have been South of Broad (Charleston), but those heads.....freaked me out, lol!!!

Sorry for the O/T but, stuffed heads creep me out!

 

[gliving]

Does Idaho have grizzly bears? I don't think a black bear would attack unless if DeOrr stumbled upon some cubs. Black bears really are not that mean.
And bears are really not to graceful lol their kinda cute how clumsy they are.
Now I bear I think they'd actually hear unless if it happen far from camp.

I live in grizzly bear country and live in fear of them. I won't hike during certain times of the year. That said, they seldom attack without cause - such as protecting their cubs or if you are near their food source. When they do attack, it can be deadly. But it would be extremely rare that they would kill without a trace. It would be a messy scene. They do take their kill to a hidden food cache.

It is true they can attack as a predator, not just as a cub and food protector. But it would be if they didn't have another more preferred food source. I can easily rule out bear attack in Deorr's case.

 

[sonj]

The thing that strikes me about this case is that there really aren't that many scenarios in which both (little) Deorr is outside the search are, and all POI's are completely honest.

All I can think of that fits is either Deorr wandered off beyond the search area (possible), or he was attacked by an animal (unlikely, but possible).

In my (unqualified) opinion, what is most likely is that the search and rescue wasn't good enough, and Deorr is within ~2miles or so of the campground, or one or more of the POI's aren't being completely honest.

Animal attack is possible, of course at this point with so little information nothing can be ruled out, but IMO it seems highly improbable. The animal would have to have taken Deorr, and left little to no evidence behind (eg, blood, Deorr's cowboy/camo boots, no evidence of a scuffle, broken branches/twigs, etc), or perhaps it did but the search teams didn't find it. Not to mention the lack of scent picked up by the dogs. Although that doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Deorr could have fallen into the creek or reservoir, but again it seems pretty unlikely that he wouldn't have been found by now. Wouldn't he have surfaced by now? How far could the rocky creek have taken him? It's level must be even lower than it was when he went missing.

Deorr could have wandered beyond the search area, it's not impossible. But there appears to be no evidence for it. No boots have been found, no scent was picked up the dogs, searchers found nothing to indicate (eg, prints, crushed grass, broken twigs, etc) that this happened.

So if we move into the realm of what I consider more likely, we are left with Deorr being somewhere within the search area, and I certainly don't discount this. These type of things appear to happen a lot. People, especially small people, are hide to find, and as nature takes it's course it only gets more difficult. Certainly a possibility. Of course the other scenario that is also a possibility - again, nothing should be discounted, is that there is some sort of deception going on (the sheriff appeared to rule out stranger involvement, so obviously that leaves the 4 POI's). In my opinion this possibility was bolstered once the FBI became involved.

Personally I am very frustrated with this case, as I'm sure we all are. I hate to say it but this (IMO) has all the makings of a cold case. I mean it's pretty much cold right now. I hope Deorr is at peace wherever he is.

 

[Arnie M]

Wild animals are unpredictable. The sheriff said himself they saw a bear and wolves at the campsite.

Yes , but keep in mind that was later during the massive search by hundreds of people tromping through the forest.

Every (normally sleeping) animal would be roused and running , and consequently some would end up being herded toward the campground area.

Hunters will sometimes use the same technique ... send a few guys through the woods making lots of noise and commotion and all the animals will be driven into the open. They call it "Pushing Bush"

I lost track of the early interview where the sheriff was questioned about animals , he said the FLIR helicopter only spotted one old wolf in the campsite area that first night.

The crew looking for DeOrr were not trying to stir up wildlife , it simply happened as a side effect of the search. Best wishes.

 

[Mickshawn]

To all of us who have lost children, pets and other family members. My heart goes out to you. Grieving is a unique journey for each person. One's own "survival". I only know what it feels like to be me. None of us can know what it feels like to be anybody else.

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't remember seeing that about the one from Idaho Falls, do you mind guiding me to the article or even posting the link? Would greatly appreciate. Thanks, Rayemonde. Or, when I get a chance I'll try to find it myself. If you don't have the time I totally understand. TIA

I'm so sorry, I just looked for it and I must be thinking of Scott Lancaster, who died in Idaho *Springs*, not Idaho Falls. This is what I get for staying up reading about Mountain Lions when I should be sleeping. :blush:

 

[Yvettea]

subscribing

 

[Rayemonde]

The thing that strikes me about this case is that there really aren't that many scenarios in which both (little) Deorr is outside the search are, and all POI's are completely honest.

All I can think of that fits is either Deorr wandered off beyond the search area (possible), or he was attacked by an animal (unlikely, but possible).

In my (unqualified) opinion, what is most likely is that the search and rescue wasn't good enough, and Deorr is within ~2miles or so of the campground, or one or more of the POI's aren't being completely honest.

Animal attack is possible, of course at this point with so little information nothing can be ruled out, but IMO it seems highly improbable. The animal would have to have taken Deorr, and left little to no evidence behind (eg, blood, Deorr's cowboy/camo boots, no evidence of a scuffle, broken branches/twigs, etc), or perhaps it did but the search teams didn't find it. Not to mention the lack of scent picked up by the dogs. Although that doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Deorr could have fallen into the creek or reservoir, but again it seems pretty unlikely that he wouldn't have been found by now. Wouldn't he have surfaced by now? How far could the rocky creek have taken him? It's level must be even lower than it was when he went missing.

Deorr could have wandered beyond the search area, it's not impossible. But there appears to be no evidence for it. No boots have been found, no scent was picked up the dogs, searchers found nothing to indicate (eg, prints, crushed grass, broken twigs, etc) that this happened.

So if we move into the realm of what I consider more likely, we are left with Deorr being somewhere within the search area, and I certainly don't discount this. These type of things appear to happen a lot. People, especially small people, are hide to find, and as nature takes it's course it only gets more difficult. Certainly a possibility. Of course the other scenario that is also a possibility - again, nothing should be discounted, is that there is some sort of deception going on (the sheriff appeared to rule out stranger involvement, so obviously that leaves the 4 POI's). In my opinion this possibility was bolstered once the FBI became involved.

Personally I am very frustrated with this case, as I'm sure we all are. I hate to say it but this (IMO) has all the makings of a cold case. I mean it's pretty much cold right now. I hope Deorr is at peace wherever he is.

:goodpost:

 

[Yvettea]

All I can think of that fits is either Deorr wandered off beyond the search area (possible), or he was attacked by an animal (unlikely, but possible).

Or both of these could be concurrently true.

 

[Arnie M]

It would be extremely unlikely that a wild animal was lurking beside an active campsite waiting for exactly the right moment for guardians to be looking the other way.

We must rely on the testimony of the parents and GGF who each thought the child was with the other.

DeOrr had at least 6 hours of daylight to keep wandering and that opens up the possibility of a later encounter with a wild animal who could carry him even farther away , leaving behind only a camouflaged boot or two in the ground debris of the forest .

The most practical thing to look for (now) is blue fabric from his pajama pants. Sad but true.

 

[Yvettea]

It would be extremely unlikely that a wild animal was lurking beside an active campsite waiting for exactly the right moment for guardians to be looking the other way.

We must rely on the testimony of the parents and GGF who each thought the child was with the other.

DeOrr had at least 6 hours of daylight to keep wandering and that opens up the possibility of a later encounter with a wild animal who could carry him even farther away , leaving behind only a camouflaged boot or two in the ground debris of the forest .

The most practical thing to look for (now) is blue fabric from his pajama pants. Sad but true.

I'm so glad to find someone who not only shares my view but says it so well.

 

[dek]

I dunno how helpful this very unscientific info will be, but my family lives about 100 directly north of Leadore--Bitterroot mountains. Same terrain, etc.
Mtn lions are rare sightings (unless taxidermied in restaurants and casinos!) and attacks are rarer, but they DO happen. I recall hearing of a few growing up (I was slightly obsessed with them for some reason). Here is a clipping of an attack on a 5-year-old from 1989. (Just slightly north-er in Missoula.)I also recall a cougar attack on a kid walking with his classmates on a nature walk, and a woman jogging getting attacked. And my bro claims one stalked him when he was fishing and that his dog scared him off.
Sadly the last animal attack on a child in that area that I can recall was a Coyote. Those guys are aggressive. We have them on the ranch and chase our dogs and we can never let the kids out alone.
View attachment 83433

ETA: I just want to point out that I realize this post is totally unreadable. It might as well be on microfiche. Anyway, it says that it was a mother lion with her cubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a readable link to the article. https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BCcuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-tAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4407,3414034

 

[EllieBee]

The thing that strikes me about this case is that there really aren't that many scenarios in which both (little) Deorr is outside the search are, and all POI's are completely honest.

All I can think of that fits is either Deorr wandered off beyond the search area (possible), or he was attacked by an animal (unlikely, but possible).

In my (unqualified) opinion, what is most likely is that the search and rescue wasn't good enough, and Deorr is within ~2miles or so of the campground, or one or more of the POI's aren't being completely honest.

Animal attack is possible, of course at this point with so little information nothing can be ruled out, but IMO it seems highly improbable. The animal would have to have taken Deorr, and left little to no evidence behind (eg, blood, Deorr's cowboy/camo boots, no evidence of a scuffle, broken branches/twigs, etc), or perhaps it did but the search teams didn't find it. Not to mention the lack of scent picked up by the dogs. Although that doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Deorr could have fallen into the creek or reservoir, but again it seems pretty unlikely that he wouldn't have been found by now. Wouldn't he have surfaced by now? How far could the rocky creek have taken him? It's level must be even lower than it was when he went missing.

Deorr could have wandered beyond the search area, it's not impossible. But there appears to be no evidence for it. No boots have been found, no scent was picked up the dogs, searchers found nothing to indicate (eg, prints, crushed grass, broken twigs, etc) that this happened.

So if we move into the realm of what I consider more likely, we are left with Deorr being somewhere within the search area, and I certainly don't discount this. These type of things appear to happen a lot. People, especially small people, are hide to find, and as nature takes it's course it only gets more difficult. Certainly a possibility. Of course the other scenario that is also a possibility - again, nothing should be discounted, is that there is some sort of deception going on (the sheriff appeared to rule out stranger involvement, so obviously that leaves the 4 POI's). In my opinion this possibility was bolstered once the FBI became involved.

Personally I am very frustrated with this case, as I'm sure we all are. I hate to say it but this (IMO) has all the makings of a cold case. I mean it's pretty much cold right now. I hope Deorr is at peace wherever he is.

I tend to agree with your sentiments. And SB borders on sounding clueless, but I tihnk in fact, he has a good idea what happened. My belief is that Deorr is very close to the site, but well-concealed.

Other than that, I will say nothing, because I know nothing.

 

[1&2&3]

Here is a readable link to the article. https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BCcuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-tAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4407,3414034

However, in this article they found paw prints and mountain lion scat where in Deorr's case the searchers did not find any evidence of wild animals.

I just do not think the little guy could have walked outside the search area wearing those oversized boots. JMO. Those boots were definately a hindrance to him, slowing him down. The boots were never found, so that tells me the boots and child are together.