ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #15

[giagreen]

The issue with number 1 is that AFAIK the latest information direct from SB (Radio interview) is that the parents and IR went together to fish leaving Deorr Jr at the campsite. The parents haven't denied this or questioned IR to my knowledge?

I agree. But then when I got to thinking about it the parents never said they were with IR. I never would of guessed. The way they talked they went off alone. Then when IR was questioned by Nate he agreed that he was there with ggp and DeOrr just went missing. Of course IR could of just ment he initially went camping with ggp. But I sometimes wonder if sb could of just said that while going along with someone's story that they were all togeather. If IR wasn't with them and had something to do with it then of course he'd say that. But idk its just a thought that I'm not fully convinced of either because I do typically go strictly off what LE says and have no reason not to believe LE.

But JM is the one who put it out there that IR went missing for an hour while they searched and then once LE got there went in his tent and passed out. So who knows I personally still don't beleive anything I read. However, it does fit.

 

[ClaireNC]

That was my whole point , every other day he completely changes the story . He must be the magic detective working at the speed of light to solve things that fast.

Anyway , best wishes , and next week I am sure we will get whiplashed again.

:banghead: I don't see it as changing his story. His story is evolving as the investigation progresses. I do not view him stating that an arrest will not be made today, and then a few days later saying that he thinks an arrest will be made in the future as changing his story. It is two different things. What am I missing?

 

[giagreen]

This has nerver been cleared up as far as I know. Were they camping at another site
Thursday night, and then moved to the campsite in question Friday morning?

Nope. There is no evidence of that. That is purely fb speculation.

 

[ILOKAL]

The issue with number 1 is that AFAIK the latest information direct from SB (Radio interview) is that the parents and IR went together to fish leaving Deorr Jr at the campsite. The parents haven't denied this or questioned IR to my knowledge?

Although it's been said IR went with them, I've not read anything that states he stayed with them or that he was still with them when they decided to return to the campsite.

 

[ILOKAL]

When it was confirmed by SB in the August 18th Nate Eaton interview that the group arrived on the Thursday evening one of the first things I asked was if it was possible they were originally elsewhere before relocating to Timber Creek. I also asked if other nearby campsites had been searched.

We're now circling back around to asking the same early questions.

Who did you ask and how did they answer?

 

[Arnie M]

.

I am going to change the subject for a minute , my motive has always been to find missing people or children , and I do it from an aviation perspective.

Besides ground searchers and dogs , A good way to search for someone like little DeOrr is using a helicopter to quickly overfly the area using high definition cameras that record every single tiny detail.

THEN volunteers and people everywhere , even people on websleuths could systematically blow those pictures up and scan every square inch of the ground , they can do it day and night from any computer anywhere in the world,

They did that for missing aviator Steve Fossett and ended up finding a whole bunch of other missing planes that had disappeared years ago.

The super high definition cameras are expensive , but some day I hope most SAR helicopters will have them . The fly-over only takes a hour but a hundred hours spent looking at the pictures on a computer screen is much better than looking out of an aircraft at 100 mph.

The helicopters and cameras are not the key , those technologies already exist , the key is the thousands of volunteers who would gladly spend the hours methodically scanning every square inch of the ground.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

.

I am going to change the subject for a minute , my motive has always been to find missing people or children , and I do it from an aviation perspective.

Besides ground searchers and dogs , A good way to search for someone like little DeOrr is using a helicopter to quickly overfly the area using high definition cameras that record every single tiny detail.

THEN volunteers and people everywhere , even people on websleuths could systematically blow those pictures up and scan every square inch of the ground , they can do it day and night from any computer anywhere in the world,

They did that for missing aviator Steve Fossett and ended up finding a whole bunch of other missing planes that had disappeared years ago.

The super high definition cameras are expensive , but some day I hope most SAR helicopters will have them . The fly-over only takes a hour but a hundred hours spent looking at the pictures on a computer screen is much better than looking out of an aircraft at 100 mph.

The helicopters and cameras are not the key , those technologies already exist , the key is the thousands of volunteers who would gladly spend the hours methodically scanning every square inch of the ground.

Arnie, is this TOMNOD or similar? I remember looking at all the various images when flight MH370 disappeared, there were hundreds of people working on it, fantastic technology!

 

[giagreen]

Am I wrong to guess that if Klein were stating that his investigation revealed the little boy was taken by an animal or was in the creek then people wouldn't be disparaging him? I am wondering if it's because what Klein has said (what LE probably has known to some degree all along) is not pretty, or innocent, and is just really hard to accept. I get that. Love him or hate him, I don't think Klein is full of the S word. I think his team of seven have done a service for little DeOrr by searching for the truth. If his payment for that is publicity, fine by me.


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Idk your deffently not wrong for thinking what you do because you have that right. And just cause I see it differently doesn't mean your wrong. However, I disagree. I believe if Klein had come out saying anything els there would of been way more drama over it especially with people who had tunnel vision on social media from day one and where locked into their theory before any thing even came out.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I agree. But then when I got to thinking about it the parents never said they were with IR. I never would of guessed. The way they talked they went off alone. Then when IR was questioned by Nate he agreed that he was there with ggp and DeOrr just went missing. Of course IR could of just ment he initially went camping with ggp. But I sometimes wonder if sb could of just said that while going along with someone's story that they were all togeather. If IR wasn't with them and had something to do with it then of course he'd say that. But idk its just a thought that I'm not fully convinced of either because I do typically go strictly off what LE says and have no reason not to believe LE.

But JM is the one who put it out there that IR went missing for an hour while they searched and then once LE got there went in his tent and passed out. So who knows I personally still don't beleive anything I read. However, it does fit.

BBM. Do you have a link for this? My first response would be so what. IR was with her and DK when little Deorr was said to have gone missing. If JM and DK come out and say IR weren't with him that would change things.

Although it's been said IR went with them, I've not read anything that states he stayed with them or that he was still with them when they decided to return to the campsite.

But they were all said to be within 150 feet of each other. Between Parents and GGP someone would have noticed him doing something. None the story makes sense to me and if IR was a sole perp then JM and DK would have been onto this stranger right from the get go. But they haven't been IMO.

 

[Trident]

:banghead: I don't see it as changing his story. His story is evolving as the investigation progresses. I do not view him stating that an arrest will not be made today, and then a few days later saying that he thinks an arrest will be made in the future as changing his story. It is two different things. What am I missing?

The same thing he is - any kind of proof? I read the "we know HOW" but "why?" post. A crock as far as I'm concerned. Without a body nobody can say HOW or WHY. Forensic evidence? Blood on a stone? Brain matter on a stone, or other viscera? Fine. That still does not tell us HOW, nor can they know without a body.

There is, however, something odd about this case (really? who'da thunk it?) because of the drone borrowed early on from another jurisdiction. The sheriff said at that point it was not to find the child, but to collect evidence in case there was a trial. Sounds like the same thing to me, but what could they have found? I don't believe pieces of clothing or boots would have told them HOW. Blood or viscera would have pointed to a dead child, but who can know? The WHY? is ridiculous without a body. I don't believe they can say HOW or even ask WHY without a body. And yet, right from the first there seemed to be SOMETHING. What is that something?

The more I type, the more I wonder, and the more I laugh at myself - the entire thing is soooo convoluted and OVERLY complicated. Who can know? None of the officials, as far as I can see.

:cow:

 

[Arnie M]

Arnie, is this TOMNOD or similar? I remember looking at all the various images when flight MH370 disappeared, there were hundreds of people working on it, fantastic technology!

Same idea , and by the way it was satellite imagery used for much of the Steve Fossett search. The missing Malaysia Jet search was a hard one because of the huge oceans and nobody knew where it went down .... but yes , you are right , same idea.

Just think if we had high definition film taken of the DeOrr campground , we could have spotted any evidence , toy truck , boots , clothing , on some cameras you can zoom in and see the date on a coin.

 

[kammiemc]

Idk your deffently not wrong for thinking what you do because you have that right. And just cause I see it differently doesn't mean your wrong. However, I disagree. I believe if Klein had come out saying anything els there would of been way more drama over it especially with people who had tunnel vision on social media from day one and where locked into their theory before any thing even came out.

You could be right. Some of the people who had doubts/questions about the POI's and their knowledge/involvement (and certainly those that felt so sure as to publicly accuse them) might be calling Klein biased or wrong if he didn't land on what they believed the truth to be.

I was more speaking of where the investigation has actually landed right now and those who are actually disparaging him right now--but, yes.

I had the strange opportunity to correspond with Klein because he mistook my name with someone else's. I was skeptical of him at first. But after learning much more firsthand, I was fully convinced that he knew what he was doing and that he was unbiased, working only for DeOrr. If he had said mountain lion, I would have been very surprised, but I would have absolutely believed him.


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[kammiemc]

The same thing he is - any kind of proof? I read the "we know HOW" but "why?" post. A crock as far as I'm concerned. Without a body nobody can say HOW or WHY. Forensic evidence? Blood on a stone? Brain matter on a stone, or other viscera? Fine. That still does not tell us HOW, nor can they know without a body.

There is, however, something odd about this case (really? who'da thunk it?) because of the drone borrowed early on from another jurisdiction. The sheriff said at that point it was not to find the child, but to collect evidence in case there was a trial. Sounds like the same thing to me, but what could they have found? I don't believe pieces of clothing or boots would have told them HOW. Blood or viscera would have pointed to a dead child, but who can know? The WHY? is ridiculous without a body. I don't believe they can say HOW or even ask WHY without a body. And yet, right from the first there seemed to be SOMETHING. What is that something?

The more I type, the more I wonder, and the more I laugh at myself - the entire thing is soooo convoluted and OVERLY complicated. Who can know? None of the officials, as far as I can see.

:cow:

Just throwing this out there, they might have evidence of something that happened prior to the camping trip. Eye witness testimony. Maybe calls, texts or emails between people, a medical event, who knows. I certainly don't. But there are ways for Klein's team to get to an idea of how they think someone might have died (I don't think he used the word proof did he? I have to go back and look) without having remains. I can't even go into blood on instruments, etc., because I still very much want to believe this was an accident until something points the other way.


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[CoverMeCagney]

You could be right. Some of the people who had doubts/questions about the POI's and their knowledge/involvement (and certainly those that felt so sure as to publicly accuse them) might be calling Klein biased or wrong if he didn't land on what they believed the truth to be.

I was more speaking of where the investigation has actually landed right now and those who are actually disparaging him right now--but, yes.

I had the strange opportunity to correspond with Klein because he mistook my name with someone else's. I was skeptical of him at first. But after learning much more firsthand, I was fully convinced that he knew what he was doing and that he was unbiased, working only for DeOrr. If he had said mountain lion, I would have been very surprised, but I would have absolutely believed him.


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I'm intrigued Kammie, tell us more about your Klein experience!

 

[kammiemc]

I'm intrigued Kammie, tell us more about your Klein experience!

I actually love the guy now. I am his biggest fan, but he scared the crud out of me. It's O/T and not that interesting, but I will say I would not want him after me!


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[giagreen]

BBM. Do you have a link for this? My first response would be so what. IR was with her and DK when little Deorr was said to have gone missing. If JM and DK come out and say IR weren't with him that would change things.



But they were all said to be within 150 feet of each other. Between Parents and GGP someone would have noticed him doing something. None the story makes sense to me and if IR was a sole perp then JM and DK would have been onto this stranger right from the get go. But they haven't been IMO.

Links for what? The videos I talk about is the so called interview Nate did with IR and then the parents interview. I can link them if you want. Or do you mean jm saying stuff? Because I do but I'm not sure if I can post it here.

 

[TeaTime]

Klein is able to say things about his own investigation that LE can't say about theirs. Klein is telling us what his investigation has boiled down too - that this was a murder and that DeOrr is still on the mountain and he has a direct witness to establish his conclusion which is ugly and exactly what no one wanted to hear. He also states that LE and he are on the same page and he expects that charges will be filed in the future.

I don't understand why he is being criticized so much. He is a successful PI and he and his team are putting in their best efforts and talent to find DeOrr and have made some conclusions that erase a lot of speculation and rumor.

Thank you Mr. Klein.

 

[kammiemc]

Klein is able to say things about his own investigation that LE can't say about theirs. Klein is telling us what his investigation has boiled down too - that this was a murder and that DeOrr is still on the mountain and he has a direct witness to establish his conclusion which is ugly and exactly what no one wanted to hear. He also states that LE and he are on the same page and he expects that charges will be filed in the future.

I don't understand why he is being criticized so much. He is a successful PI and he and his team are putting in their best efforts and talent to find DeOrr and have made some conclusions that erase a lot of speculation and rumor.

Thank you Mr. Klein.

I totally agree (obviously). The only thing is that accident is still very much on the table and I so want that to be the case. If you are thinking that he would only be saying charges will be filed if it was homicide, I don't think that is the case. I am no legal guru and things differ state to state, but even if it were an accident and covered up, charges (anything like falsifying a police report, a form of neglect, heck even wire fraud if anyone with knowledge benefited from donations made online).


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[krig101]

I totally agree (obviously). The only thing is that accident is still very much on the table and I so want that to be the case. If you are thinking that he would only be saying charges will be filed if it was homicide, I don't think that is the case. I am no legal guru and things differ state to state, but even if it were an accident and covered up, charges (anything like falsifying a police report, a form of neglect, heck even wire fraud if anyone with knowledge benefited from donations made online).


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Exactly and not to mention hiding a body.

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[TheTruthWillOut]

Who did you ask and how did they answer?

I asked in a earlier Deorr thread here months ago I think.... around the time of finding out about the Thursday arrival. I don't remember getting much/any response.

Links for what? The videos I talk about is the so called interview Nate did with IR and then the parents interview. I can link them if you want. Or do you mean jm saying stuff? Because I do but I'm not sure if I can post it here.

I mean JM saying stuff. If it is a Facebook comment don't worry about it.