ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[Lillahazel]

I think it was more of a defensive maneuver of rounding up because it made them look less neglectful. Allowing a two year old to wander back to GGF sounds much worse than the same for a three year old.

Good point. I was thinking it was because he was so uninvolved with his child that he didn't even know how old he was.

 

[MBK]

It may just be a favorite picture of theirs? I get that most people would try to pick the most recent picture but his appearance wasn't that changed and that may just be the first one they thought of when someone asked for a picture.

I find that he was looking a lot less "babyish" in some seemingly more recent photos, such as the ones of him in the restaurant.

 

[MBK]

I don't know WHERE I read this, but since we were all discussing pre-camping sightings of Deorr . . wasn't there a "story" that the day before (Wednesday), Jessica was running around doing errands with Deorr? And that actually was the day that her mother (??!!) asked her to go on the trip to help look after GGP? I had the impression that Jessica was visiting? Yo no se! Does anyone else remember this? Sorry, no link, had a migraine earlier today, feeling very tired and lazy!!!

 

[white rabbit]

great points, persimmon. completely agree.

i keep going back to IR's interview. he had no reason to lie at that point. he has an attorney who's coaching him. and even said to nate "yes" when asked the question "are you waiting for it to come out in court" (paraphrasing)...methinks he cut a deal.

i truly believe IR "saw" deorr at the campground. in what condition, alive or deceased, that is the question. when nate asked him "what happened up there?" IR said "no comment". he answered many others. he will not approach friday. but said "yes" when asked if he saw him.

so...still does not answer the ultimate question of whether or not deorr was alive at the campground. but again IR has no reason (nor motivation since he never knew VDK or JM before this 'trip) to lie to the media under attorney review, IMO. he might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but...that's the exact reason i believe him.

 

[MBK]

It may be their favorite picture but if you're wanting the public to help find your child and you obviously have access to many current photos why use this one? When I first saw it I would have thought I was looking for an 18 month old child not one that's closer to three. I personally can't make out any features on that photo other than his hair and eye color.

It didn't matter to the parents to show what he looks like. ANY generic blond, blue-eyed toddler boy would do . . heck, I read that the parents wanted DNA testing of the "motel kid" in California (as if they REALLY thought that he was Deorr . . please). The more people who sighted "Deorr", locally, nationally, globally, the better it would be . . tying up LE resources, etc., etc. Keeping eyes OFF the ball, so to speak.

 

[EllieBee]

It may be their favorite picture but if you're wanting the public to help find your child and you obviously have access to many current photos why use this one? When I first saw it I would have thought I was looking for an 18 month old child not one that's closer to three. I personally can't make out any features on that photo other than his hair and eye color.

I suspect they chose that picture because it was so unlike DeOrr at the time of his disappearance.

JMO, but the parents wanted as little attention paid to this as possible. Hence the foggy details, lack of photos, and reluctance to bring national attention to DeOrr.

 

[pepelepolecat]

As a juror, I would have voted No as well, but ONLY because the decision is based on what we currently know via statements alone.

(I would be perfectly willing to change my vote, but I need more than just what is out there now. I also find it hard to sleuth a child abuse theory because we are limited to MSM articles/statements.)

Most importantly, I'm so very sorry you experienced abuse as a child. I can only hope that you have found all the love you truly deserve in this world!! I'm sending some extra your way to keep on hand should you ever need to know that someone cares! Having an abusive life experience makes you extremely valuable as a fellow sleuther as you can help educate us as to the realities of child abuse. Thank you for sharing your perspective!!

I also agree that we should sleuth or discuss any theory, especially when it involves finding out what happened to an innocent child. They cannot speak for themselves, so it is out duty and obligation to do what we can to prevent abuse of any kind. We need to assume the "It takes a village to raise a child mentality." Together, we can all make a difference. All it takes is one person to make a difference.

:loveyou:

Thanks. I have definitely had a "happily ever after" with a husband with whom I'm still silly-in-love after 17 years together and three kids who have taught me even more about love. But when it comes to child abuse, I don't shut up because I feel so strongly about it. It hides and hides well, and I have no stomach for looking past anything even remotely hinky. I'd rather err on the side of caution.

In this case, I hope DeOrr had happiness and love in all his time on earth. But in reality, I think there is circumstantial evidence that he may not have.

moo

 

[pepelepolecat]

It didn't matter to the parents to show what he looks like. ANY generic blond, blue-eyed toddler boy would do . . heck, I read that the parents wanted DNA testing of the "motel kid" in California (as if they REALLY thought that he was Deorr . . please). The more people who sighted "Deorr", locally, nationally, globally, the better it would be . . tying up LE resources, etc., etc. Keeping eyes OFF the ball, so to speak.

Meanwhile, DeOrr didn't even have blue eyes, and that fact wasn't relayed to the proper people for how long again?

 

[MBK]

Meanwhile, DeOrr didn't even have blue eyes, and that fact wasn't relayed to the proper people for how long again?

Reminds me of Madeleine McCann.

 

[Tr.]

But in this specific case, it seems that the only thing suggesting DeOrr may have been abused is that his parents aren't being honest about their knowledge of his disappearance. If we're assuming a violent end to this child's life, it would make sense that there would be preceding violence, specifically abuse. But as of yet, we don't have any indication that DeOrr met a maliciously violent end, and that makes the basis for the assumption of abuse a shaky one, without further evidence supporting it.

100 % DISAGREE

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

great points, persimmon. completely agree.

i keep going back to IR's interview. he had no reason to lie at that point. he has an attorney who's coaching him. and even said to nate "yes" when asked the question "are you waiting for it to come out in court" (paraphrasing)...methinks he cut a deal.

i truly believe IR "saw" deorr at the campground. in what condition, alive or deceased, that is the question. when nate asked him "what happened up there?" IR said "no comment". he answered many others. he will not approach friday. but said "yes" when asked if he saw him.

so...still does not answer the ultimate question of whether or not deorr was alive at the campground. but again IR has no reason (nor motivation since he never knew VDK or JM before this 'trip) to lie to the media under attorney review, IMO. he might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but...that's the exact reason i believe him.

Ah. This actually makes more sense to me than DeOrr not being on the trip at all. His body has not been found. If something happened to the child at home, taking off 2 1/2 hours across rural open land into a fairly isolated campground would provide plenty of space and opportunity for the parents to dispose (what an ugly word, in this sense ) of him.
It might even lend some insight into my question about DeOrr, Sr.'s weirdness about the truck, and why he was away from the campground in it when Jessica was making the phone call to 911. Perhaps he was away disposing of the remains. The fact that they had the exact time of the phone calls burned into their memories might mean that they had planned on the time to coordinate the calls.

Bah. All speculation. The only thing I know for sure is that there has been no truth from these parents. I sincerely hope that the truth comes out and that these people are held accountable for whatever it is they've done or been a part of.

 

[MBK]

100 % DISAGREE

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

Thank you. Thank you. To me, this is not a beautiful photo. This is a photo of a child who is profoundly sad, distanced, and hurt. Those who have eyes will see. Thank you.

 

[Dee10]

EARLY AFTERNOON OR EARLY EVENING!

Whoa.

Big difference there.

I mean, okay, late afternoon or early evening, parse the difference, it's summer, it's light later . . okay, okay, but EARLY afternoon or EARLY evening?

And the sheriff isn't clear which (because VK and JM gave different accounts of the timeline . . . most likely)!!!

Did VK not work on THURSDAY, either? (if they left early afternoon) These people strike me as living week to week, hand to mouth, surprised that he can miss so much work . . .

If they left in the early afternoon, that gives them a heck of a lot more leeway in terms of the timeline. Thanks for finding the quote TXJan, it blew my mind.

Two different timelines leaving for the trip (thinking reference) with a toddler:

Early afternoon = After lunch
Early evening = After supper

ETA - I wouldn't think there would be a such a time discrepancy here?

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

100 % DISAGREE

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

I fully agree that abuse is a possibility in this case. You may be right about the discoloration on the child's forehead. I do not agree or disagree with your interpretations. I'm just not willing to say I have confidence in it, and don't want the unverified potential of abuse to skew my perception of what might have happened to DeOrr.

 

[DatelineFan]

100 % DISAGREE

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

Not necessarily. I was just with friends last week. They both have one year olds. While we were together, one fell on the other. The other now has a bruise like that on her forehead.

I don't know if they abused Deorr, but drawing conclusions through photos isn't really a way to find the truth, in my opinion. It's a fraction of a second in time, with no context.

I definitely believe the parents are guilty of something here, but that picture isn't enough.

 

[LietKynes]

100 % DISAGREE

http://www.pollyklaas.org/missing/kids/images/kunzdeorrlg-1.jpg

The bruises on this baby's head are in the shape of an adult size large left hand. The most prominent bruise resembles an index finger and swelling is evident where the thumb would be on the baby's right temple. The other bruises clearly show finger marks.
This injury would have happened by slapping downward with the hand and then squeezing...or basically grabbing him by the head from above.

Always..JMO

RSBM

Absolutely this is bruising, and cannot be 'explained' away by the lighting in the photo or just normal skin discoloration ; imo.
Wonder what other photos are being 'hidden' ?
Disgusting.

From Pepelepolecats' post (RSBM):

Meanwhile, DeOrr didn't even have blue eyes, and that fact wasn't relayed to the proper people for how long again?

Sorry, I'd mentioned his blue eyes in a past post-- when was this disclosed, about his eye color ? Not sure exactly why I've thought until now, that his eyes were blue.
MOO

 

[Lillahazel]

Meanwhile, DeOrr didn't even have blue eyes, and that fact wasn't relayed to the proper people for how long again?

Then pile on all the pleas from the parents about social media gossip. If my child was missing I wouldn't care if anyone was against me. In fact I'd say bring them on. With me or against me you would still be getting my baby's face out to others and the bottom line is that's really all that matters.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I have to say that I'm really reluctant to give an opinion on 1/60 to 1/500 of a second snapshots in low quality. Not to say it means there isn't something in this but I can't judge it based on such.

 

[DatelineFan]

How can you possibly know what that bruise came from??

 

[Tr.]

How can you possibly know what that bruise came from??

I'm sure you mean bruises and swelling...and simply put..I've seen it before.

You might also notice in that photo the index finger bruise extends to the inner right eye.



jmo