ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #26

[Rayemonde]

Good catch on the blanket. Maybe they did bury him with a blanket after all.

 

[Blue Skies]

Maybe...just maybe....Trina is trying to get her over the wall because it's the key to finding her grandson???

Yes, maybe she is just smart enough to believe what LE, the FBI, and Klein have said. I don't think it means she knows what happened. She might just believe what the evidence is pointing to, like most of us do.


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[Blue Skies]

That's why I said "IF" the other campers didn't know before LE got there, because I think the statement by SB is a bit ambiguous and is open to interpretation. But if VK said he didn't know about the other campers (I don't have the link), then it appears you are right.

ETA Ambiguous in that I'm not sure whether the sheriff meant the couple never saw the Kunz family or if their children that came up never did as the sentence runs on. He probably meant both but not for sure. And if so, I agree with your post.

17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...php?p=12122056

This is a very good point (including your prior post) and my interpretation would be that none of them saw the Kunz family. I would think he would have said so if the older couple did see them (unless it was one of those things kept under his hat).




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[kammiemc]

Good catch on the blanket. Maybe they did bury him with a blanket after all.

Or they had to throw it out if had evidence on it.


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[Blue Skies]

At this moment, it wouldn't surprise me at all if VK was there with Deorr at the store at 6 pm on Friday, a filthy, bawling Deorr who had been hidden all day, god knows where. I don't know. Can LE swear on a stack of bibles that they knew the whereabouts of the 4 all day long, from when they arrived to . . . . late in the evening?

It wouldn't surprise me either. I still think there was something to that 6:00 pm filthy bawling baby story. I just can't believe that he made that up. I know some believe it was to make it appear Deorr was there, but that is quite a crazy convoluted story to make up for that purpose.

I mean, think about it. It would mean he thought in his head, "I'll make up a story and say somebody saw Deorr at a certain time and then I'll say it was me, but at another time." Why wouldn't he just say the store clerk saw him at the time he was actually claiming to be there.

Either way it could have been verified by asking the clerk. So, what would have been the point of mixing up the times if he made the entire story up?That's why I think there is something to that sighting. Am I missing something?


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[kammiemc]

It's unclear where the misinformation originated - it could have been poor reporting or it could be that the parents were misleading. However, the news medias all reported that the family arrived Friday morning for a looooong time. No one attempted to correct it.

On August 18th, SB said, “Well, the family, from what I understand, that we learned during the investigation arrived the evening prior to July 10th, sometime fairly close to dark on Thursday, July 9th..." I think that was the first official confirmation that they arrived on Thursday, IIRC.

I think the first time is was ever publicly stated (I can't speak for where jones was getting the info in the first week) was when Vilt mentioned their arrival being Thurs night in his first interview. People were responding very emotionally, some claiming that he clearly misspoke. Then the sheriff confirmed in his picnic table interview that, yep, it was true. That wasn't that first week at all. I'd love to see a link where the family stated (or anyone else stated) their true arrival date to the public during that first week.


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[Blue Skies]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's alleged that IR disappeared at some point during the afternoon? Maybe it was him with DeOrr at the store? Maybe VK and JM had hidden DeOrr somewhere and smuggled him out through Leadore with IR? Was DeOrr bawling because he was with a strange man and was IR buying him candy because how else do you get a toddler that's screaming at you to calm down? (thinking about his thought processes, not necessarily my own). As to motive for all that, well I have no idea

I have wondered this myself. Good thinking


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[Blue Skies]

FWIW this is my latest theory.

Due to the court case JM had coming up about the $20K debt, they decided to fake DeOrr's kidnapping to raise money for a "ransom". They roped IR into it and asked him to be the one to disappear DeOrr out of the campground while they ran around and all 3 (JM, VK, GGP) of them looked for him and rang 911. IR hid DeOrr somewhere but he unfortunately got spotted trying to buy him candy in Leadore at 6pm. Maybe something really did happen to DeOrr since and he is deceased somewhere up on the mountain but that was not part of the original plan. Unfortunately this all got bigger than Ben Hur. IR was told it'd be a harmless prank, he'd make a few bucks and he didn't want to admit his part to it at the start but perhaps now he has come forward.

This is quite possibly the best theory I've heard so far.

This goes right along with my number one theory from day one of this being a hoax and things not working out the way they planned.

What you said would certainly explain why they didn't mention IR in the first interview, nobody was supposed to know he was there. I didn't know about the debt until recently, but that really gives this theory a lot of credibility IMO.

This also makes some sense of VDK's crazy story about the filthy bawling baby because if somebody really did see him in the store with a man (IR), then it makes sense that VDK would bring it up and feel the need to explain it away.

Also, my thoughts from the beginning were that at the time of the parents very first interview, they really believed there was a chance they would get Deorr back alive and well. If your theory is correct, they really may not have known what had been done with him at that point, but knew their plan had gone wrong somehow.


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[MistyM]

This is something I wondered about and not sure if I'm overthinking it. I read that they arrived "just on dark" on Thursday night. According to sunrise/sunset charts, sunset is around 9:30pm in July. That seems awfully late to be arriving in at a campground especially with a toddler. There's a bit to set up and organise and it's a pain in the neck arriving late. Why wouldn't you leave earlier unless it was a last minute decision to head off, or something happened on the way to slow you down ..........like something that causes you to need to fill up gas twice on a journey of 116 miles (from Idaho Falls to Leadore).

i know right? i always wondered why they would have to get the diesel more than once in 24 hours. i can see filling up when they got there for the trip back, just in case there was none for sale in leadore (the thurs fill seems to not have been there but 'on the way') and then again the next day? and diesel lasts longer than gas doesn't it? where did VDK drive from thurs. evening till the rescue team arrived?

 

[Blue Skies]

20-40 minutes. But, I don't believe it was at all possible for VDK to have gone off on his own after the searchers got there. If he was seen in Leadore with little Deorr after the searchers got to the campground, it would all be over now.

But, it could have been someone else in the store with baby Deorr, someone more simple minded who got confused on what he was supposed to do and didn't know any better.


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[Arnie M]

Perhaps I am delusional because I can't seem to locate anything to back this up, but I could almost swear that it was determined that the "filthy bawling boy" story was debunked and that it never happened - that it was never verified to have happened. It seems to me that either SB or Klein stated that there was no clerk or clerks in the store that could say that they had seen Deorr. Also, I'm pretty sure there were posters speculating that VK made this rumour up himself to try to make it look like Deorr was at the store at noon instead. Am I not remembering this correctly? I don't remember LE or Klein confirming the story. JMO.

You are not delusional ... Other people are .... they have resurrected the non-existent filthy bawling baby for the hundredth time .

The whole thing came out during one of the interviews .... Vernal was commenting about some of the wacky witness reports .... such as someone said they saw a filthy bawling baby at the store at 6:00 pm Friday

And Vernal was correct .... it was wacky because the baby was missing since early afternoon and the parents had been at the campsite along with all the other searchers and it is wacky to suggest the parents and the boy could have been at the store at 6:00 pm.

Vernal was correct , the false tip is plain wacky wacky wacky wacky wacky wacky

And we must remember that Vernal also said if anyone claims to have information they should bring it to the Sheriff or FBI.

 

[Blue Skies]

You are not delusional ... Other people are .... they have resurrected the non-existent filthy bawling baby for the hundredth time .

The whole thing came out during one of the interviews .... Vernal was commenting about some of the wacky witness reports .... such as someone said they saw a filthy bawling baby at the store at 6:00 pm Friday

And Vernal was correct .... it was wacky because the baby was missing since early afternoon and the parents had been at the campsite along with all the other searchers and it is wacky to suggest the parents and the boy could have been at the store at 6:00 pm.

Vernal was correct , the false tip is plain wacky wacky wacky wacky wacky wacky

And we must remember that Vernal also said if anyone claims to have information they should bring it to the Sheriff or FBI.

Perhaps you should go back and read because we were not all saying VERNAL was with Deorr.

The fact that LE denied this happened doesn't mean it didn't. As we all know, LE can choose to tell us whatever they see fit (as it should be).

Furthermore, VERNAL is "wacky" and nothing he has said thus far has been "correct."




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[katydid23]

You are not delusional ... Other people are .... they have resurrected the non-existent filthy bawling baby for the hundredth time .

The whole thing came out during one of the interviews .... Vernal was commenting about some of the wacky witness reports .... such as someone said they saw a filthy bawling baby at the store at 6:00 pm Friday

And Vernal was correct .... it was wacky because the baby was missing since early afternoon and the parents had been at the campsite along with all the other searchers and it is wacky to suggest the parents and the boy could have been at the store at 6:00 pm.

Vernal was correct , the false tip is plain wacky wacky wacky wacky wacky wacky

And we must remember that Vernal also said if anyone claims to have information they should bring it to the Sheriff or FBI.

I don't think the store clerk was suggesting the parents were at the store with the baby at 6 pm. The clerk said she remembered seeing a bawling baby at around 6 pm with a man in a black truck.

I am sure there are many black trucks in the area and many crying babies. So why was Vernal so quick to discount the sighting?

Shouldn't he have been really interested to know about that sighting? How'd he know it wasn't the kidnapper with his missing boy?

 

[Rayemonde]

There was no sighting of a filthy bawling baby at the store. Someone made that up. Yet Vernal was eager to tell everyone that the sighting was him and DeOrr. The sighting that never happened. Vernal didn't say the sighting was a rumour because the clerk saw no filthy, bawling boy, which would have been the truth; instead he said that the man with the filthy, bawling boy was him and DeOrr, just earlier in the day.

There was no sighting of a filthy, bawling boy. Someone made it up. IMO the parents made it up.

 

[Blue Skies]

There was no sighting of a filthy bawling baby at the store. Someone made that up. Yet Vernal was eager to tell everyone that the sighting was him and DeOrr. The sighting that never happened. Vernal didn't say the sighting was a rumour because the clerk saw no filthy, bawling boy, which would have been the truth; instead he said that the man with the filthy, bawling boy was him and DeOrr, just earlier in the day.

There was no sighting of a filthy, bawling boy. Someone made it up. IMO the parents made it up.

Why though? Why make that up? If the purpose was to make people believe Deorr was there, why not just say the clerk saw them at the day and time he actually claimed they were there? Why say the clerk said one time, yet it was actually another. What did he benefit by adding that twist?

ETA: Either way, it would have been easy to prove he was lying. I don't mean to drag it out. I would really like to hear some reasoning as to why he would add the mixed up times to his lie.


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[Arnie M]

Not to quote myself but I found this other non cropped photo and it is a different blanket. It has an embroidered character and letters on it.

Thanks Lillahazel ... along with your blanket picture , here are some of the others

ps: the middle two pictures are from the same video , different angles

Interesting comment by the mother at 2:35 in the video

.... this is his blanket .... he does not go anywhere without his cup , monkey or blanket ..... and all three of them were lost at the campground

So I ask .... what blanket is she holding during the interview ???

Is this another one of those inconsistent statements ?????

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/heartbroken-parents-of-missing-2-year-old-well-find-you-son/


.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Thanks Lillahazel ... along with your blanket picture , here are some of the others

ps: the middle two pictures are from the same video , different angles

Interesting comment by the mother at 2:35 in the video

.... this is his blanket .... he does not go anywhere without his cup , monkey or blanket ..... and all three of them were lost at the campground

So I ask .... what blanket is she holding during the interview ???

Is this another one of those inconsistent statements ?????

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/heartbroken-parents-of-missing-2-year-old-well-find-you-son/


.

All three of them were lost? Along with possibly a toy car? Erm, I don't remember this being on any missing posters, surely they'd want people to be looking for these things?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

All three of them were lost? Along with possibly a toy car? Erm, I don't remember this being on any missing posters, surely they'd want people to be looking for these things?

They were left at the campground, not lost.

 

[Ekkwhine]

All three of them were lost? Along with possibly a toy car? Erm, I don't remember this being on any missing posters, surely they'd want people to be looking for these things?

Is that his cup he doesn't go anywhere without in the picture? It looks new there, as a parent of three I can say that none of mine stayed looking that way for long. The spouts get chewed and the cup part itself starts looking tatty from repeated washing, getting dropped and rolled about etc

ETA I'm a parent of three children, not three sippy cups!

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[MBK]

Interesting comment by the mother at 2:35 in the video

.... this is his blanket .... he does not go anywhere without his cup , monkey or blanket ..... and all three of them were lost at the campground

Whoa. Good catch! LOST! (Yeah, just like Deorr is "lost".) I think these items were disappeared, just like him.

(But didn't SOMEONE say that the cup and monkey were in VK's truck???) Maybe those were replicas.