ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[Cardinal47]

<modsnip>

I talked to my law partner- criminal defense attorney. I asked him if he was hired by parents of a missing kid who insisted they were innocent, but are POIs and simply want help navigating the system and getting answers, how would he handle representing them.

He said: no polygraphs. No DNA samples. No searches of homes or cars without a warrant. All questions are written and go through him.

I'm sure most of you can see how that would terribly hinder a missing person's investigation.

I understand and I have nothing but the greatest respect for Mark Klass, Ed Smart and John Walsh. They were able to handle and assist the police in the very best ways.

They knew how to handle both the police and the public.

But then you have those not that savy when it comes to being on the five o'clock news.

I could make a list of those parents that have been murdered in the press and social media and honestly I would advise them to get an attorney. Innocent or guilty...I donno. But they were and are being eaten alive.

I am sure this is a huge minus once social media starts the ball rolling and LE and FBI have to wade through a lot of the charges being made on websites.

MOO of course.

 

[rkf]

Im not arguing what's reasonable. I'm arguing about human behavior. I have yet to see an innocent person lawyer up and clam up. Even when they should. Like Riley Fox's dad.

Innocent people just don't lawyer up. Ask Marc Klaas. Ask John Walsh. Both have been working with parents is missing kids forever. They say the same thing.

I think clamming up is weirder than "lawyering up". Some people clam up without lawyering up, and that seems strangest of all to me in a missing child case.

 

[Mickshawn]

I'm not a camper, but I don't find it unusual at all that ggp was along. I do find it unusual that IR was also along, since DK and JM had never met him and I would not think ggp would need a friend to entertain him, since he had his family. They all came from Idaho Falls, so I would think the family could drive ggp's truck and camper, leaving DK's truck at ggp's house. Maybe they were all expecting to come and go at different times, but that would mean IR would be expected to look out for ggp when the family wasn't there. In fairness, before I saw the doorway interview with IR, I wouldn't have thought his presence was so strange. But IR doesn't seem like a great conversationalist, doesn't appear to be capable of caring for ggp in DK and JM's absence, and wasn't needed to drive ggp's truck if the family have driven to the campsite together, so I don't understand what he added to the camping trip.

~~Perhaps IR is a friend that GGP saw as a person who needed some reaching out to and thought a little weekend fishing/camping trip would be nice for him?

 

[rkf]

I imagine this scenario could only involve IR. And if the parents didn't really know him before the trip, it seems like they would have gone ape if, right after their son disappears, he's like "I think I will just mosey on along..." and books out of there. :thinking:

I wouldn't think they would expunge him from the camping trip like they did in the interview.

 

[rkf]

I think it would absolutely hinder an investigation. If the parents are truly innocent, but they lawyer up, then clam up, and refuse poly's, refuse to face to face interviews, refuse to allow LE access to homes/cars, then LE cannot clear them immediately. And that totally hinders the investigation from moving forward and finding other possibilities. JMO

If someone hires a lawyer for advice, they are not required to take that advice. The person paying the bills still gets to make the decisions.

 

[rkf]

Friendship. You know how you hang out with your friends to talk and joke, whatever, camping is just like that. A person doesn't have to 'add' anything other than being present.

I understand. In this case, it didn't appear IR was capable of doing those things (from his doorway interview).

 

[gliving]

duplicate post.

 

[gliving]

[video]https://youtu.be/01DB2lqpWcs[/video]
I'm re-posting this video for anyone who hasn't had the chance to watch Isaac's interview. Besides appearing rather 'dull', he shows no emotion at all to what is a crisis situation. I'd think he would want to at least mention his concern that a little kid is missing. A couple of words like "it's sad" or "poor little kid" or "I hope they can find him". MOO he wants to distance himself from the reality of the emergency.

 

[rkf]

I understand and I have nothing but the greatest respect for Mark Klass, Ed Smart and John Walsh. They were able to handle and assist the police in the very best ways.

They knew how to handle both the police and the public.

But then you have those not that savy when it comes to being on the five o'clock news.

I could make a list of those parents that have been murdered in the press and social media and honestly I would advise them to get an attorney. Innocent or guilty...I donno. But they were and are being eaten alive.

I am sure this is a huge minus once social media starts the ball rolling and LE and FBI have to wade through a lot of the charges being made on websites.

MOO of course.

I wonder if an attorney would have also advised DK and JM to not talk to the media, in an effort to reduce the SM speculation. In this case, if DeOrr was kidnapped, LE's advice to them to stay away from the media could have devastating consequences. Whatever reason LE had for discouraging DK and JM from doing MSM interviews (unsubstantiated rumor), it sounds like LE felt the parents talking to reporters would impede the investigation. An outsider might have a different perspective and be able to give the parents advice that conflicted with LE's preference without interfering with LE/SAR efforts. I just don't think the family and DeOrr have been well-served by whoever has advised them not to reach out for help if their child was kidnapped. Maybe when it's all over, we'll see why LE thought the way they did. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

I understand. In this case, it didn't appear IR was capable of doing those things (from his doorway interview).

Based on one interview you think you can say he's incapable of hanging out, talking, joking, and having a good time with his friends? Incapable. IMO that is a very strange thing to say.

 

[katydid23]

If someone hires a lawyer for advice, they are not required to take that advice. The person paying the bills still gets to make the decisions.

That is true. But my Dad used to 'jettison' clients that did not take his advice. LOL

 

[starfire]

The great-grandfather is apparently not a suspect due to mental/physical issues. I highly doubt he is in any way involved and I feel so bad for what he must be going through. Since the GGF is supposedly friends with Isaac, though, I sort of wonder if he is a sweet, wholesome, grandfatherly type --- or a 76 year old version of Isaac.

 

[crh8]

Regarding the incorrect report earlier stating that DeOrr Jr. had been found..the similarities are strange and likely just due to coincicidence plus had journalism. It also reminded me of false reports put out by LE to draw out a suspect(s). I don't know if that is the case here, but it is interesting. Very rarily used... http://archive.coloradoan.com/artic...hics-planting-false-stories-draw-out-suspects

 

[Hatfield]

I think clamming up is weirder than "lawyering up". Some people clam up without lawyering up, and that seems strangest of all to me in a missing child case.

I think everyone is different and I have no problems with people getting a laywer for anything serious like this.

After watching many people get butchered by LE and the press during interviews and especially shows like NG where once she decides you have something to do with it there is no changing her mind...LOL.

Ive gotten much better to try not to judge a book by its cover during interviews.

The case that really comes to mind and I still feel bad about prejudging the person is Sommer Thompson case. Very early on I saw her mom in an interview and JMO it struck me as strange.

I took her wrong and her daughters killer was arrested not long after. That case taught me a good lesson about how to not try to judge just by how interviews are done.

We can still try to learn things from the interview but we have to proceed with caution because so many people are different in their demeanors.

 

[rkf]

Based on one interview you think you can say he's incapable of hanging out, talking, joking, and having a good time with his friends? Incapable. IMO that is a very strange thing to say.

From his interview, it appeared that he could barely speak, which is why I would not expect him to be able to carry on a conversation and joke. I am somewhat surprised that IR can drive - I wouldn't want to be on the same road as him. If ggp brought him along to do something nice for IR, that puts ggp in the position of "taking care" of IR, if only emotionally. It seems like a lot when ggp apparently already needs to be cared for himself, and the other adults on the trip have a toddler to chase. It's just my opinion - nothing more.

 

[rkf]

That is true. But my Dad used to 'jettison' clients that did not take his advice. LOL

I can see that, too! But at least they would have an alternate opinion, even if they didn't keep the attorney around.

 

[Snoopster]

I've just gotten back from a short vacation and was 'off the grid'. I was hoping to come back to good news about Deorr, but am so disappointed that there is no news, let alone good news.

Regarding IR and his interview, we really don't know what state he was in and what was going on when they knocked on his door. He may have been operating on only a couple of hours sleep and been taking sleeping pills to deal with the stress. We just don't know anything so I'm not ready to say that he needs to be 'tended', and I don't think it's my place at this stage to try to judge him publicly.

Keeping my fingers crossed for positive developments!

 

[rkf]

I've just gotten back from a short vacation and was 'off the grid'. I was hoping to come back to good news about Deorr, but am so disappointed that there is no news, let alone good news.

Regarding IR and his interview, we really don't know what state he was in and what was going on when they knocked on his door. He may have been operating on only a couple of hours sleep and been taking sleeping pills to deal with the stress. We just don't know anything so I'm not ready to say that he needs to be 'tended', and I don't think it's my place at this stage to try to judge him publicly.

Keeping my fingers crossed for positive developments!

Maybe he's not like that all the time, but we know he can be like that sometimes. We don't know why he acted like he did at the door, if that's his usual behavior or even why he opened the door, after not doing so before. Apparently JM and DK didn't know him before the camping trip, so they wouldn't have been in a position to know what he's like in different situations, except for what ggp might have told them.

We have very little info, except what can be garnered from that interview, his public court record (discussed in MSM) and his and his friends SM posts, which can't be discussed here. Not referring to IR when I say if someone is nice most of the time but is capable of flying into a rage, it's important to know what someone can do, especially if they are going to be around your kid. In IR's case, we know he can be listless and lacking affect, so we know it's possible he exhibited that behavior while camping alongside DeOrr or in the moments following his disappearance. I was only saying that if IR was his usual self when he answered the door, his presence would have been an additional stressor on JM and DK who were already responsible for an active toddler and an infirm ggp's at a primitive campsite. JMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

[video]https://youtu.be/01DB2lqpWcs[/video]
I'm re-posting this video for anyone who hasn't had the chance to watch Isaac's interview. Besides appearing rather 'dull', he shows no emotion at all to what is a crisis situation. I'd think he would want to at least mention his concern that a little kid is missing. A couple of words like "it's sad" or "poor little kid" or "I hope they can find him". MOO he wants to distance himself from the reality of the emergency.

Maybe the guy was half asleep and not expecting a reporter. Or maybe he had taken a sleeping pill so he could sleep. Or maybe he had a hangover. Or maybe...(I could go on all night!)

We have seen him once and I don't think it is enough to pass judgment on his personality, his disposition, his affect or anything other than he did not seem prepared to have a camera shoved in face and obviously was not comfortable with the situation at that given time. It certainly isn't enough to decide he needed care himself or he was not a good friend to GGF. No one knows about their relationship except them, but I don't find it weird even with the age difference.

I have been known to hang out with people old enough to be my grandparents because I genuinely like them and they have the greatest stories! Would I go on a fishing trip or camping with them? In a New York Minute! We would have a blast around the campfire at night.

 

[rkf]

Maybe the guy was half asleep and not expecting a reporter. Or maybe he had taken a sleeping pill so he could sleep. Or maybe he had a hangover. Or maybe...I could go on all night!

We have seen him once and I don't think it is enough to pass judgment on his personality, his disposition, his affect or anything other than he did not seem prepared to have a camera shoved in face and obviously was not comfortable with the situation at that given time. It certainly isn't enough to decide he needed care himself or he was not a good friend to GGF. No one knows about their relationship except them, but I don't find it weird even with the age difference.

I have been known to hang out with people old enough to be my grandparents because I genuinely like them and they have the greatest stories! Would I go on a fishing trip or camping with them? In a New York Minute! We would have a blast around the campfire at night.

I have no problem with the age difference.
We know more about him than what we saw in that interview.
No one forced him to open the door and go on camera.
Maybe he's a fine companion for ggp.
He's not someone I would want around my children.