ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[BeeFriendly]

It isn't up to John Q. Public to advise NCMEC on details of a case, imo. This is something done through LE and the direct parties. I am a bit dismayed at how people feel they have a right to jump protocol and call people on a case whether it is the Sheriff, the PI, or the NCMEC. This is a REAL investigation!! This isn't a reality TV series. A little boy's life is at stake and we are here as observers. Unless we can come up with some direct link to the case pertinent to said investigation...we need to let them do their jobs and leave them alone. No wonder internet sleuths have such a bad rep!! I had no idea people hounded LE and the rest for anything less than to report direct evidence.

ETA: To be honest, I don't think it matters if NCMEC has his eye color correct at this point. Sad to say.

I disagree...his eye color is H U G E.

 

[rkf]

One of the most astounding things about this case is the cremains dumping IMO. The odds that anyone would dump cremains in such a remote, hard to get to, seldom used site at just the exact time that a missing person search is in progress must be astronomical! I just really find that harder to believe than Big Foot! Truth really is stranger than fiction! JMO

Also, there are rules about where cremains can be dumped in National Park land. It is illegal to put them in the reservoir. I'd think someone would look into where they are allowed to spread their loved ones' ashes before doing it. I'd also think if you came upon an area where there were close to 200 people crawling over the ground, searching for something, you would turn around and come back another time, unless you were from out of town. What are the chances that someone from out of town dumped the ashes and LE was able to track them down so quickly?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I disagree...his eye color is H U G E.

Sorry, but it isn't. After this amount of time, chances are this little boy is gone and his eye color doesn't matter. His DNA and dental records matter.

 

[rkf]

Thank you so much for calling!!! I would be irrate too. Does this mean the parents or LE has not called? If it requires the parents or LE to make that change, that makes sense to me - if you had said you are the mother or family, how do you think the call would have gone?

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Wonder if their PI could get the poster changed.

 

[Cardinal47]

I have been looking up statistics on missing children. I found this website and thought it interesting.

Estimates by Type of Episode
Table 3 reports the reasons children became missing. Data
are shown for all caretaker missing children and for those
who were reported missing.
Of all caretaker missing children, nearly one-half (48 percent)
were missing because of a runaway/thrownaway
episode. More than one-fourth (28 percent) became missing
as a result of benign explanation circumstances (miscommunications
or misunderstandings between child
and caretaker). Children who were missing because they
became lost or injured accounted for 15 percent of all
caretaker missing children. Less than one-tenth (9 percent)
of caretaker missing children were abducted by
family members, and only 3 percent were abducted by
nonfamily perpetrators.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/missingkids/statistics.html

I found the above statistic under this topic.


National Estimates of Missing Children: An Overview
Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, October 2002

 

[Cardinal47]

As I was pondering my rogue hunter scenario, I remembered my friend in CO who has a wildlife game cam near his home. He's always posting cool pics of animals on FB.

Does anyone know how these remote cameras work? Can you get a live feed over your computer or smart phone? Like home security cam. If someone had a game cam in the area, would it be traceable through phone records?

I imagine Stone Reservoir would be an attractive water source for the native wild life. Lots of species coming in for a drink.

Included: two live traffic cams near Lemhi.

Gilmore Summit. A pass between the Lemhi and Birch Creek Valleys
http://lb.511.idaho.gov/idlb/cameras/camera.jsf?id=8

Lone Pine web cam. In the Birch Creek Valley between the Lemhi and Beaverhead Mountains.
http://birice.vaisala.com/photos/0313725F_067EC57D_cam1.jpg

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014/01/25/regional-web-cams/

Camera's in trees became a topic of conversation when Morgan Harrington of Virginia went missing.

What I learned is camera's are mounted in trees by deer hunters so they know where the game are to be found.

Usually on property used for hunting with owners permission.

Sorry I don't know much about remote control of such cameras or if they will record in your home.

 

[gliving]

Can the FBI get records of any cell phones that pinged near the sparsely populated area?

Seems that would be a good place to look.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Wonder if their PI could get the poster changed.

Why? If people want to make posters and put blue instead of brown...they can do so. I get that people are upset the little fact is incorrect and it bothers them like a hang nail. It doesn't change anything about this case and the outcome, in my opinion. His eye color is not going to change the statistics. And the stats are definitely not pointing in the direction of a rescue.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Can the FBI get records of any cell phones that pinged near the sparsely populated area?

Seems that would be a good place to look.

I believe they need the phone numbers (and SWs) first instead of doing it in reverse. Not even certain it works that way. Anyone know?

 

[Jules71]

Also, there are rules about where cremains can be dumped in National Park land. It is illegal to put them in the reservoir. I'd think someone would look into where they are allowed to spread their loved ones' ashes before doing it. I'd also think if you came upon an area where there were close to 200 people crawling over the ground, searching for something, you would turn around and come back another time, unless you were from out of town. What are the chances that someone from out of town dumped the ashes and LE was able to track them down so quickly?

I believe the article did confirm it was a local woman. Let me see if I can find it.

Eta: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731?irpc=932

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[Cardinal47]

Just called the NCMEC I'm sure for the thousandth time to notify them the color of Deorr's eyes are not blue. The following is how that conversation went: Ring Ring. Blah blah press 1, blah blah press 2, blah blah press 3. any other reason press 4. me.. I'd like to notify your organization that you have the color of Deorr Kunz Jr's eyes wrong on his poster. You have them as blue and they are brown. NCMEC, "Please spell the last name." me..K U N Z. "Can you spell the first name please?" me...D E O R R. "How do you know his eyes are not blue?" me...His family says they are brown, look at the picture, his eyes are brown. "Do you know this child?" me...no, but I'm working on distributing his posters. "Do you know his parents?" me...no. I'm trying to help find this child. The color of his eyes are wrong on the posters and your organization has been notified hundreds of times. "Hundreds of times? How do you know that?" It's all over the internet, social media, his family's webpages. People have been trying to get your organization to correct his eye color for a month. "A month?" me... Yes, a month. What good are these posters if you don't have the eye color right? "I don't know, I'll have to get this to my supervisor." me... who's your supervisor? "Kylie." me...what's Kylies direct line? "I can't give you that information." me...who's the director now? I spoke to the director in 2008. What's their name and number? "I can't give you that either." me..what's it going to take to get his poster corrected? "It's going to take Law enforcement or his parents to do that. I'll give this information to my supervisor Kylie and maybe she can call someone to get it changed. me...Your supervisor Kylie, huh? You people have been notified a hundred times and done nothing yet. You didn't even know who Deorr was when I called. I asked him to please get on it.

So.... frustrated as all heck, what do you think the chances are, that if someone phoned in a lead,,,a dead ringer that looked exactly like little Deorr, but had brown eyes...what do you think the NCMEC will tell them? "Nope, it's not him, it says the missing child's eyes are blue. Thanks, for calling." Click. Po'd is an understatement right now. These organizations are the best we have??? God help us. Please God, watch over our children because we are surrounded by incompetence.

I always thought it was bad. I didn't know it was THIS BAD.

 

[Jules71]

Hundreds of tips have poured in from all over the globe suggesting the child has been seen as far away as Hong Kong, but Bowerman said he is ruling out a kidnapping.

"There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731?irpc=932

I know this was posted before but this is the first time I noticed the ruling out part.

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[gliving]

I believe they need the phone numbers (and SWs) first instead of doing it in reverse. Not even certain it works that way. Anyone know?

I have no doubt the FBI can recover whatever phone/computer/camera files they need.

If the FBI has their eye on someone, we won't hear a word until the arrest. But I bet that person knows they are being scrutinized.

 

[BeeFriendly]

Sorry, but it isn't. After this amount of time, chances are this little boy is gone and his eye color doesn't matter. His DNA and dental records matter.

You also stated, "we need to let them do their jobs and leave them alone."

Sorry, but:

I was registered with the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, The Lost etc. I didn't get any help from those organizations. Geez, when my daughter was spotted 2500 miles away by a bus driver, I called the Sheriff in Florida for help. They were awful to me. They grilled me for an hour and a half, kept putting me on hold, transferring me to one department after another where I was continuously having to repeat my story. After an hour and a half they finally got me to someone who would dispatch a car to go look. It took them another 3 hours to actually get a car there. 4 1/2 hours later they called me and said no one fitting her description was there! Oh really!!? Brilliant! That's when I took matters into my own hands and went myself and I found her 1.2 miles away from the spot the driver had told me he saw her.

The Center for Missing and Exploited Children are overwhelmed with cases and understaffed. They have volunteers they send out when they can. It could be hours or days later before they can go check a lead out. With everyone saying an abduction has been ruled out...what are the chances they're going to act on any of the leads being phoned in? That's my biggest concern. My Missing Posters had my personal phone number on them as well as the authorities. The driver called me directly and I'm glad he did. I don't hold out much faith in the Sheriff's dept or the Missing Children's agencies. If I had left them alone and let them do their jobs...I would never have found my daughter. They finally got around to calling me the DAY AFTER I found her on my own!​

 

[shebear]

Did IR or the interviewer say that IR was fishing in the creek or just standing by the creek? If he was fishing I really find that odd. I doubt any grown man I know would try to fish in a 3 ft. wide creek.
I would assume that they would head over to the reservoir to fish. I have alot of fishermen in my family and not one would put his line in that tiny creek. Now I can see a little boy maybe play fishing in it but not a grown man trying to catch some fish. Maybe its just me , I just find that odd.

 

[La Louve]

Can the FBI get records of any cell phones that pinged near the sparsely populated area?

Seems that would be a good place to look.

Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. The cell towers receive the pings from cellphones. The records of those pings are with the call records, not with the towers.

"For mobile phones to work they have to be in regular contact with cell towers, so when handsets are on, they emit signals (called "pings") to nearby cell towers every few minutes to let the network know where they are. Most mobile phone companies keep records of calls to and from phones as well as a limited number of recent routine locater pings (sometimes just the last ping, sometimes up to 24 hours worth of them).

Although the location of a cellular handset can be traced via pings, there are two problems with using this method in emergency situations: One is that ping histories are part of customers' private phone records, and law enforcement agencies have to obtain subpoenas before gaining access to them. The other is that pings narrow the physical location of a phone only to the coverage region of a particular cell tower, an area that can encompass several square miles. "

snopes.com

 

[rkf]

Why? If people want to make posters and put blue instead of brown...they can do so. I get that people are upset the little fact is incorrect and it bothers them like a hang nail. It doesn't change anything about this case and the outcome, in my opinion. His eye color is not going to change the statistics. And the stats are definitely not pointing in the direction of a rescue.

I think some of us are disturbed that we tried to help by contacting NCMEC (I emailed and submitted the form for tips on DeOrr's page) and others have contacted the family. Either the family has not thought it important enough to contact NCMEC or they have contacted them and NCMEC still hasn't made the change. These posters aren't just anybody making a poster - they're the posters created and distributed by NCMEC, a very well known organization. Other organizations get their information from NCMEC. If there are going to be posters, they should have accurate information. Otherwise, they do more harm than good. At this point, there is a sliver of a chance that DeOrr was kidnapped (IMO). It makes sense to have the most accurate posters/up-to-date information in the event that someone spots him. Or if his body is found outside the Lemhi/Idaho Falls ID area. Otherwise, why have posters at all?

 

[rkf]

I believe the article did confirm it was a local woman. Let me see if I can find it.

Eta: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731?irpc=932

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That's even crazier. So a local woman, who can't help but have heard there is a massive search for a two year-old boy around the reservoir chooses that time to dump cremains there, in the middle of the search area?! She either doesn't look into rules and regulations surrounding dispersing human remains, or she ignores them? While 200 people, dogs and search equipment crawl over the surrounding land and water? Truly unbelievable.

 

[gliving]

The Lemhi Sheriff FB page's alert for a missing child:

July 16 at 8:11am ·
Update on missing 2 year old. We are currently at the location of the missing two year old and have never suspended our search. We are again diving the reservoir looking for any sign of DeOrr. We have representatives from the National Association of Missing and Exploited Children, assisting our organization. We are asking the public at this point, to "not" come to the scene as it will hamper our investigation. If anyone has information please call the Idaho Fusion Center in Meridian at 208 846-7676, as they are categorizing our tips for us, and assisting us in our investigation. We are still looking for a missing child and that is the focus of our investigation. All speculation at this time is not positive to our investigation, however, we will continue to look and will direct our investigation to include all possibilities, at a later time. Thanks to everyone for their concerns and prayers. We too, want to find DeOrr, and will do everything possible to bring this investigation to a conclusion........Sheriff Bowerman, Salmon Search & Rescue, Salmon Police, and the multitude of assisting agencies.....

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice/posts/882334271840737

 

[lauriej]

Originally Posted by kammiemc

Has it ever been said the campfire was actually afire? I saw on one map that there was a fire pit structure. Could it have been misspeaking to call it a campfire? Otherwise, that's going into pretty terrible territory that a nurse would feel comfortable leaving an elderly man with oxygen at a fire, double that wonkiness to leave him by the fire in charge of her son.

IIRC DK said they thought DeOrr would be fine by the fire with ggp. I will have to look for the link (I think it was the interview) to be sure, unless someone else knows off the top of their head.

--Deorr Sr doesn't specify as to whether the fire was lit or not.

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out

--8:59


Deorr Sr: Yeah, we decided we was going to do a little exploring, he was gonna be good with Grandpa, by the campfire..