GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell *Arrests* #77

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alexwood said:
I do believe that Lori Vallow allowed her children to be murdered. Had she not wanted it to be done, they would still be alive. She wanted the benefit of their money, and to live a life with her new man unencumbered and free of responsibility. Lori Vallow should have received the death penalty.

Chad (Caspar Milquetoast) Daybell should receive it for both of them. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because she escaped the DP doesn't mean that he should be allowed to do so.
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True. And Lori would have eventually replaced him; or he her. it was all about money and being a god or goddess to others. Stupid. And HE is responsible for Tammy’s death. You don’t get to kill your wife because you want someone else. I hope his kids are waking up!

Tammy, Charles, JJ and Tylee should be alive today.
Making Alex the hitman wont help Chad.
 
cottonweaver said:
Have you all seen and discussed this yet?

did Audrey lie-by-omission in the witness box in the Lori Vallow trial?
many, at the time, thought she did but on this one specific point - Lori allegedly having watched Joe Ryan die rather than her two children die - it's potentially explosive

I trust that either source( an AB associate or AB friend) or Audrey herself already went to the police with this info

Intriguing timing too

Streamed by HTC 10 hours ago
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Lori and Alex?
 
It’s very easy for me to believe Lori and Chad are both psychopaths (no empathy) who met and planned all murders that suited them. There would have been more. Melanie/niece’s husband s murder was planned also but he missed the bullet.
I do think Joe Ryan. Was murdered. Lori And Chad have no feelings for anyone.
 
Apart from her statement to AB about being present for Joe's death, Lori also told two of her friends from Hawaii that she paid Alex to kill Joe. What kind of person freely admits to multiple friends to being part of a murder plot? Did Charles know about it as well?

Suspicion about Joe's death could help Chad's case, because he died before Chad and Lori met, but it probably wouldn't be allowed to be discussed on court, since Lori was never charged in Joe's case.

Transcript from FOIA docs:
 
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Might as well put my 2 cents worth in regarding the “bombshell” info that AB told someone who told HTC that the body LVD said she stood over and watched the last breath leave was Joe Ryan’s…
1) IIRC AB didn’t mention LVD’s threat against her under initial direct by prosecution nor in original cross by defense. I think defense asked why she ended the friendship and she said she was afraid or something like that and then on re-direct from prosecution she was asked why she was afraid or fearful and her answer was that LVD threatened to kill her. I remember thinking wow that almost didn’t make it in because the prosecution didn’t ask about it on direct! Then defense accused her of making it up because she hadn’t testified about it previously.
2) Someone asked if she lied by omission but I don’t think she did. Remember that witnesses can only testify to questions they are asked. I’m pretty sure the little bit she said about LVD watching someone die or take their last breath was responding to defense question on re-cross but she couldn’t tell them who that was if no one asked her that and the defense attorney didn’t seem to want to go into that - was too busy accusing her of lying because she didn’t tell about the threat in her grand jury testimony or her direct exam in this trial. Prosecution did ask to have a follow up and might have asked who but the judge said no more questions and dismissed the witness. You can’t really blame AB for that either.
3) Much of AB’s testimony was hard to understand because she was upset and crying and breathless but she didn’t seem to understand some of the questions - that is her responses didn’t really seem to answer what was being asked. Perhaps it was because she was upset but she came across as a very timid and gullible person who began to realize how she had been manipulated while in Hawaii. I think perhaps the reason she came across so poorly was that she was embarrassed that she had participated in any way with the castings once she realized that they were asking someone (not Jesus or the Father) to take the life from these people she thought they were praying for.
4) AB said she had questions about CD toward the end of the friendship in October but before that she apparently believed everything he said and thought he had insight and could help her understand things. She believed him when he said he had all these prior lives and he & LVD were married in a prior life and again IIRC she believed him when he told her she had been married to Jesus in a prior life. Can you imagine being so gullible to believe those kinds of things and then coming to the realization that you have been led astray and there are 5 people that you know of that are now dead? She must have overwhelming felt guilt and shame and it was obvious how hard it was for her to testify. Let’s not blame her for what no attorney asked her about.
5) If she told someone that LVD told her that she stood over the body of JR while he took his last breath, it’s heresay and I don’t think it could be used as evidence against LVD regarding JR’s death. I do think JR was murdered and I do think LVD was involved but I don’t think AB telling someone who told HTC helps prove that in any way.

Now having said all that… Someone else mentioned earlier in this thread that one of LVD’s Hawaii friends said that LVD said she paid AC to kill JR. I cannot understand that friend or AB or others not calling the police to disclose statements like this. In AB’s case, she didn’t come to the realization of what was going on until after TD died but had she disclosed the info she had to police in October when LVD threatened her, LE may have been able to talk to AC and gotten more information about how all of these murders came about and who did what and who planned what. As for the friend in Hawaii, I don’t know when LVD was supposed to have told her that she paid AC to kill JR, but I am reasonably sure it was before CV was killed. If she had contacted LE, they may have put more weight on the things CV said including that she threatened to kill him. In other words, had that friend called LE, CV, Tylee & JJ, & TD might all still be alive. I can’t help getting a little angry every time I think about that.
 
Love Never Fails said:
It’s very easy for me to believe Lori and Chad are both psychopaths (no empathy) who met and planned all murders that suited them. There would have been more. Melanie/niece’s husband s murder was planned also but he missed the bullet.
I do think Joe Ryan. Was murdered. Lori And Chad have no feelings for anyone.
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I agree with you about Joe, and I'm thinking it's the same person involved with Lori for years
 
I absolutely believe that Lori told Audrey that she [Lori] watched Joe Ryan die and that she enjoyed it. Annie Cushing said Lori cheerfully told her about Joe's decomposed body with a kind of "manic" enthusiasm. "She went into pretty graphic detail about the state of his mattress," recalled Annie, "Really inappropriate detail. It was grotesque. I had to ask her to stop." [Source: The Doomsday Mother by John Glatt]

Insensitively wallowing in details about Joe's body in front of Joe's sister is sadistic. In some of her videos, Annie Cushing said she told her daughter after that visit that she thought Lori might be a sociopath. Keeping that in mind, it makes sense that Lori would be unable to resist the thrill of dramatically describing Joe's last breaths to her '100% on the trust scale' friend, Audrey.

I think there were red flags pointing to Lori's sadistic side well before Lori met Chad. Remember Lori's cousin, Megan Conner, who talked about how Lori laughed when Lori's high school boyfriend ran over a cat and the cat painfully howled as it died? Adam's former wife, Nicole, thought that Lori's method of disposing of dogs (that Lori had grown tired of) was cruel. Nicole wouldn't have brought up how Lori got rid of her unwanted pets if Nicole didn't find it significant. Nicole also described Lori as constantly craving attention and said Lori "always had drama in her life". [Source: The Doomsday Mother by John Glatt]. Charles Vallow's former wife, Cheryl Wright, agreed with Nicole's assessment. In an interview with East Idaho News, Cheryl said Lori seemed to enjoy herself during court hearings, despite the fact that the court hearings were dealing with the disturbing topic of children being molested. "She Loved it," said Cheryl.

Reveling in and enjoying describing her ex-husband's death with family and friends sounds exactly like something a sadistic drama queen would do.
 
Even if Lori and Chad had NOT been arrested I do not think they would have lived together happily ever after.

Tammy's life insurance benefits, $420,000, sounds like a lot of money. But, it really isn't that much. Not considering that Lori and Chad were going to live in Hawaii. I also cannot see Lori staying with Chad after Chad's money was gone. I just can't.

I'm not as sure as Lauren and Dr. John are that Lori wouldn't decide to become a Black Widow, again. Obviously, Chad is capable of killing a spouse, too. I just see Lori as tiring of Chad first.

My own opinion.
 
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Jolynna said:
I absolutely believe that Lori told Audrey that she [Lori] watched Joe Ryan die and that she enjoyed it. Annie Cushing said Lori cheerfully told her about Joe's decomposed body with a kind of "manic" enthusiasm. "She went into pretty graphic detail about the state of his mattress," recalled Annie, "Really inappropriate detail. It was grotesque. I had to ask her to stop." [Source: The Doomsday Mother by John Glatt]

Insensitively wallowing in details about Joe's body in front of Joe's sister is sadistic. In some of her videos, Annie Cushing said she told her daughter after that visit that she thought Lori might be a sociopath. Keeping that in mind, it makes sense that Lori would be unable to resist the thrill of dramatically describing Joe's last breaths to her '100% on the trust scale' friend, Audrey.

I think there were red flags pointing to Lori's sadistic side well before Lori met Chad. Remember Lori's cousin, Megan Conner, who talked about how Lori laughed when Lori's high school boyfriend ran over a cat and the cat painfully howled as it died? Adam's former wife, Nicole, thought that Lori's method of disposing of dogs (that Lori had grown tired of) was cruel. Nicole wouldn't have brought up how Lori got rid of her unwanted pets if Nicole didn't find it significant. Nicole also described Lori as constantly craving attention and said Lori "always had drama in her life". [Source: The Doomsday Mother by John Glatt]. Charles Vallow's former wife, Cheryl Wright, agreed with Nicole's assessment. In an interview with East Idaho News, Cheryl said Lori seemed to enjoy herself during court hearings, despite the fact that the court hearings were dealing with the disturbing topic of children being molested. "She Loved it," said Cheryl.

Reveling in and enjoying describing her ex-husband's death with family and friends sounds exactly like something a sadistic drama queen would do.
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Sadistic, sociopathic, psychopathic. Lori is where she should be. She and Chad shouldn’t be alive after what they’ve done.
And contrary to what the coroner found, I believe Lori and Chad and Zulema had a hand in taking Alex’s life or demanding that he take his life. I believe Lori seduced Alex his entire life and then manipulated him into helping her kill people.

It’s frightening to me that Lori is not on death row or locked in a cell away from other prisoners who are not violent.
 
Jolynna said:
Even if Lori and Chad had NOT been arrested I do not think they would have lived together happily ever after.

Tammy's life insurance benefits, $420,000, sounds like a lot of money. But, it really isn't that much. Not considering that Lori and Chad were going to live in Hawaii. I also cannot see Lori staying with Chad after Chad's money was gone. I just can't.

I'm not as sure as Lauren and Dr. John are that Lori wouldn't decide to become a Black Widow, again. Obviously, Chad is capable of killing a spouse, too. I just see Lori as tiring of Chad first.

My own opinion.
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It’s funny to wonder who would kill each other first. I think both would have bought high life insurance on each other within months.
 
Love Never Fails said:
Sadistic, sociopathic, psychopathic. Lori is where she should be. She and Chad shouldn’t be alive after what they’ve done.
And contrary to what the coroner found, I believe Lori and Chad and Zulema had a hand in taking Alex’s life or demanding that he take his life. I believe Lori seduced Alex his entire life and then manipulated him into helping her kill people.

It’s frightening to me that Lori is not on death row or locked in a cell away from other prisoners who are not violent.
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I'm with you on Alex's death. There's just no way that it was natural. Too coincidental. He was the fall guy.
 
LinasK said:
I'm with you on Alex's death. There's just no way that it was natural. Too coincidental. He was the fall guy.
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Right, day after Tammy was exhumed.

people.com

Lori Vallow Daybell's Brother Alex Cox Told Wife, 'I Think I Am Their Fall Guy' the Night Before He Died

The night before Lori Vallow Daybell's brother Alex Cox died, his new wife had a feeling that her husband of less than two weeks was keeping something from her, she testified during Lori's ongoing trial on Friday.
people.com people.com
The day before Cox's death, Pastenes came home from work around 7:30 p.m. and found Cox on the phone with Lori and Chad, who were telling Cox that the body of Chad's first wife, Tammy Daybell, was being exhumed
 
Nikynoo said:
Yes.
From the article.
"Dye was involved in the death investigation of Chad Daybell’s wife, Tammy..."
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I see that, but was there a death investigation into tammy at first? I thought there was a different coroner who did the first autopsy, but cannot find it..... I am not sure this article clarifies that she was the original coroner though I know someone here can verify.
Edited : found my answer Coroner: Tammy Daybell's initial cause of death was a cardiac event DYE was the original coroner the follow up was performed by dr christensen
 
formerlyme said:
I see that, but was there a death investigation into tammy at first? I thought there was a different coroner who did the first autopsy, but cannot find it..... I am not sure this article clarifies that she was the original coroner though I know someone here can verify.
Edited : found my answer Coroner: Tammy Daybell's initial cause of death was a cardiac event DYE was the original coroner the follow up was performed by dr christensen
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There was no first autopsy Chad said one was not needed. An autopsy was carried out in Utah after Tammy was exhumed.
 
Nikynoo said:
There was no first autopsy Chad said one was not needed. An autopsy was carried out in Utah after Tammy was exhumed.
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correct, DYE was the first coroner to review the case there was not a death "investigation" per say at that point, So she was involved with an investigation after the fact and I would be willing to guess that not digging further at the beginning would cause nightmares.
 
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