ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71
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State witness: Dr. Garth Warren, forensic pathologist / Part 1
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
1h
Next witness up is Doctor Garth Warren.
Warren is dressed in a dark suit with a gray shirt and tie. Wood will question Warren, who is a forensic pathologist. "A forensic pathologist is a medical doctor who tries to determine how people die," he says.
Warren has been licensed to practice in Idaho for six years. He practiced in Colorado for five years. He attended the University of Health Sciences Center in Portland, Oregon and did a general pathology residency with a two-year fellowship in neuropathology.
He also did a one year fellowship in forensic pathology. Warren works for the Ada County Coroner.
Warren investigates homicides, suicides, accidents and there is an entire team that investigates these deaths. He says his job is to determine why people die.
The Ada County Coroners's Office has a contract with Madison and Fremont Counties to conduct autopsies. Warren performs 200-250 autopsies a year. He believes he's conducted 1,200-1,500 cases in Idaho.
Wood asks Warren what pathology involves. Warren says it's the study of disease and explains what some of his job involves.
Warren is a member of the American Board of Pathology and serves on other boards. He details the tests he had to pass in order to practice pathology.
Warren says cases that fall under the medical examiner/coroner's office are typically not-natural deaths. Tests are done to come up with a cause and manner of death. "That's my ultimate job - to determine the cause and manner of death" he says.
Cause of death is what causes you to die - heart attack, car crash, gunshot wound, etc. Manner of death deals more with circumstances surrounding the death and there are typically five options - natural, accident, suicide, homicide and undetermined.
Wood asks Warren what an unattended death is. Warren says the death is unattended by a clinician. If somebody dies in the hospital, that's an attended death. Someone who dies outside of the hospital without a doctor is an unattended death.
Warren says typically the body is received in a body bag. The bag is typically sealed. He opens the body bag and observes the scene as is - what were they wearing, any evidence of medical intervention, etc.
The clothes are then removed and evidence is gathered if needed. A head-to-toe exam is performed - hair, eye color, ears, fingernails are all described. Warren looks for anything that could determine cause of death.
Warren then cuts into the body, collects urine, blood, eye fluid and other things are collected from the body. Organs are inspected and weighed. Warren says he has conducted autopsies on over 200 bodies.
Warren conducted the autopsy on JJ Vallow on June 11, 2020 at the Ada County Morgue. The autopsy took about four hours. Warren says JJ died of asphyxia by plastic bag over the head and duct tape over the mouth. Bound with duct tape, bruising on the arms and abrasion to the neck.
BREAKING: Forensic pathologist says JJ Vallow died due to asphyxia by plastic bag over his head.
Warren says they received JJ's body in a body bag. He opened it up and it was wrapped in plastic. "Right from the beginning there were some things that obviously jumped out.
There was a white plastic bag over JJ's head wrapped around his face multiple times with duct tape all the way down to the neck. The forearms and the hands were bound with duct tape and the ankles were found with duct tape.
JJ was wearing a red pajama top, red pajama bottoms and black socks. Another thing that was quite obvious is the body was in a sense of decomposition. There was dirt and mold on the tops and bottoms.
You could tell even with the clothing on that the body was in a state of decomposition by the color of the skin."
The clothes were removed and submitted to law enforcement. A single cut was made on the duct tape and given to law enforcement. The plastic bag was given to the law enforcement. All of the fingernails were cut and given to law enforcement.
Oral, anal and penile swaps were conducted in case there was a sexual crime involved. A portion of the rib, bone, hair and two molars were taken out of JJ's mouth for DNA purposes.
JJ's body was in a state of decomposition. Warren describes the graphic details of the state of JJ's body. Warren found a scratch-like abrasion on the left side of JJ's neck.
There was also bruises on the left arm and a hemorrhage on the right thumbnail. "There were also other areas that were concerning or suspicious - bruising on the ankles that may have been associated with the duct tape."
Many members of the jury are taking detailed notes as Warren speaks. Lori is taking notes and looking up at the witness
There was no sign of disease. Warren made incisions on the heart and lungs. All the organs were still there and well-defined, Warren says.
"All of the organs showed decomposition changes but I did not see any trauma to the internal organs or evidence of overt natural disease to any of the organs."
Warren did not observe any rib fractures. He did not see anything unusual in the lungs.
There was no blood or urine due to the state of decomposition so a sample of JJ's liver was sent for a toxicology. Full-body x-rays were also performed but they did not show any overt fractures or abnormalities.
The toxicology report shows low levels of ethanol (alcohol), a drug called GHB (gamma hydroxybutyric acid), caffeine and theobromine (pardon the spellings) that can be found in cocoa and tea.
Wood asks Warren to characterize the amounts of GHB found in JJ Vallow. He says, "inconclusive." GHB can be found in tissues including livers postmortem and
"there's really no way for me to tell for sure whether this is just a naturally occurring product in the body that was there or if JJ was given GHB. I can't say one way or another based on the levels."
Time for a mid-morning break. Back in 15-20 minutes.
Larry and Kay Woodcock are not in the courtroom this morning. They were aware what would be discussed today. Judge Boyce is back on the bench but court staff are working out some audio issues.
NEW THREAD: Warren is back on the stand and Rod Wood continues to question. Wood asks to admit photos of the autopsy.
There are around three dozen photos taken during the autopsy that Wood asks to admit as evidence. Thomas objects and asks the court to exclude them because they are unnecessarily prejudicial. Wood responds,
"There are photographs of what actually happened. What actually transpired during the autopsy? There's no better evidence to explain the autopsy process then by these and Dr. Warren's testimony. They are true and they are accurate."
Boyce overrules the objection and photos will be admitted.
Thomas asks to have the photos shown in black-and-white. Wood objects and says that's not the reality. Boyce calls for a sidebar. White noise is played in the courtroom. The defense does not want these photos shown.
All of the attorneys have left the courtroom with the judge. Lori sits at the defense table with her back toward the spectators. Her side can be observed by jurors who sit directly across from her. Lori is writing in the yellow notebook.
Several jurors stand to stretch their legs. Lori continues to write in her notebook. Attorneys are walking back into the courtroom.
Lori's uncle, Rex Conner, is back in the courtroom today with his daughters. They, along with two victim advocates, are sitting in the prosecution benches. No other family members are in the reserved area.
Lori is chatting with her attorneys. She doesn't seem too concerned as she's smiling and actively engaged in conversation.
We are waiting for Judge Boyce to re-enter the courtroom and decide how/if the autopsy photos will be shown.
Boyce is back on the bench. He says he has considered the evidence and made a decision that it would be inappropriate for many of the photos to be publicly demonstrated due to their graphic nature.
Boyce is also concerned that the photos on the big screen would "blow them up." So the images will be shown on the monitors in front of the jurors and at the defense and prosecution table.
Spectators in the courtroom and overflow areas will not see the photos. Jurors, the defense (including Lori) and prosecution will see the photos. Wood says he did not take a position on the ruling and left it to the discretion of the court.
I will relay the information said about the photos but can not describe them as I can't see them. Warren describes the first photo as JJ in a black sealed body bag.
A red seal is on sealing the zipper of the body bag and a ruler is apparently on the photos with the case number listed on it.
Lori is looking at the screen. Thomas raises a concern that people sitting behind prosecutors can see their screen. Boyce asks Rammell to stand behind the screen so he can block the public from viewing the monitor.
Boyce jokes, "I knew having you on the prosecution would come in handy at some point."
Change of plans. The prosecutors turned the monitor around and moved their chairs so they now face the audience and there's no way for anyone in the audience to see the screen. Wood now asks for another sidebar.
There are seven 24-30 inch monitors placed throughout the jury box. Jurors will clearly see the screens showing the autopsy photos but those in the audience gallery will not.
Boyce is back on the bench and says the logistics have been worked out. Wood continues to question Dr. Warren.
The next image is a red body lock after it's been cut by the forensic team and removed. The next image is a photo after the sealed body bag is open. "At that point, we opened that bag and peel back some of the duct tape.
Then we handed over that black bag to law enforcement as evidence," Warren says.
The next photo is the first view of JJ after they opened the black plastic bag. Warren says there is a white plastic bag over the head wrapped multiple times with duct tape. The next image is a photo of the white bag over the head and the duct tape over the head.
Lori is not looking at the monitor. I've noticed one female juror who is not looking at the screen. She is looking up at the ceiling and rubbing her finger back and forth over her lips.
Warren continues to describe the autopsy photos and the extent of the decomposition fluid. "You can see a small portion of his arm, his left upper arm, and you can see it's in a state of decomposition. It has a tan, leathery appearance with skin slippage."
The next photo is the lower half of the body showing JJ's pajama pants. The next picture shows the lower half of JJ's body. His ankles are bound with duct tape. The juror who was not looking at the screen is now crying and wiping her eyes with a tissue.
The next image shows duct tape covering JJ's mouth from jawline to jawline. Lori just glanced at the screen and then looked away. "We carefully removed the plastic bag and the duct tape from JJ's head," Warren says while describing the photo.
There is decomposed tissue and fluid shown in this photo
Warren now describes a photo of the strip of duct tape covering JJ's mouth. "JJ's face is in a state of decomposition...It's green in discoloration and there is skin slippage."
The next photo is a strip of duct tape that covered JJ's mouth. It was submitted to police as evidence. The next photo shows JJ's hands wrapped multiple times with duct tape.
Most of the jurors are looking at their monitors and showing little emotion - but the one I referenced earlier is looking at the witness, at the ceiling, at the prosecutor or looking down.
Warren says the next photo shows a "large band of duct tape" that was removed from JJ's arms and given to law enforcement. The next image is the same duct tape taken from a different angle to show the inside of the duct tape.
"You can see the decomposition staining on large portions of the duct tape."
The next photo is a close-up of the duct tape around JJ's wrists. "It appeared it had been wrapped around one wrist and then the other wrist had been laid on top of it and then it was wrapped around the other wrist separately."
More images are shown of duct tape found wrapped around JJ's wrists. Now Warren describes the diaper that JJ was wearing when he was buried. There is decomposition fluid and sluffed-off tissue on the diaper.
The next photo is of JJ's face. "We always get a photograph of the decedent's face and at the time it helped us with a preliminary identification based on photos I and everyone else in the room had seen. This did look like JJ," Warren explains.
The next photo is of JJ's upper body including his face and arms. It shows the state of decomposition he was in and on his chest there is a green/tan skin discoloration. I have only seen Lori look at the screen once briefly during the presentation of the photos.
Warren describes another photo showing JJ's lower half - his legs and his feet. The next picture is of JJ face down.
"We always get photographs of a decedent laying face down so we can better evaluate the back. This simply shows there is decomposition involving the back and the shoulders."
Wood asks about white spots that are apparently on JJ's side. Warren said they are likely salt minerals that are part of the decomposition process. The next image shows JJ's lower half from the back down.
The next image is of JJ's arm highlighted with a ruler. There is some discoloration that could be associated to bruising.
Lori appears to be crying. She is wiping her eyes with tissues and will not look at the screen. The next image shows bruising on JJ's arm.
The next image is a portion of JJ's right upper arm where there was hemorrhaging, which Warren says is consistent with bruising.
Warren describes a photo of the left side of JJ's neck. "There are a couple of things you can see. One - you can see a slight or faint impression of where the duct tape was around the neck.
You can see multiple brown to light brown abrasions - some with a small amount of red hemorrhage - that was scattered on the left side of the neck."
Warren says there appears to be scratch-like abrasions on JJ's neck.
Warren describes a photo that shows bright red bruising under JJ's fingernails. "It essentially means there has been trauma to that area and blood vessels have been broken. It's essentially caused a bruise."
Exhibit 176JJ is a photo of JJ's lower body and possible bruising, Warren says.
Wood is finished with the exhibits. Boyce says the victims will be allowed to view the exhibits if they would like in another setting. Prosecutors are re-adjusting their seats to get the monitors and seats back to normal.
The feeling in the courtroom is very heavy. Even though the audience did not see the photos, we heard the description and could tell at least one juror was affected by them.
Wood asks Warren if the bruises on JJ's body were from before or after he died. Warren says they were premortem because when someone dies, there is no circulation so bodies can't bruise.
Wood asks if the bruises on the neck could be decomposition. Warren does think so. Wood now asks if Warren was involved in the autopsy of Tylee Ryan. It started on the same day as JJ's - June 11, 2020. Tylee's autopsy was done after JJ's.
"This autopsy was different. The vast majority of the time when I perform an autopsy I get an entire body and there's a process we go through. Tylee's case was different. Her remains were received in three separate sealed bags.
Two of the bags were black body bags and the third was a large brown paper bag that was sealed. Within that contacted five other paper bags within it. So I essentially received Tylee's remains in multiple different bags," Warren says.
Warren says Tylee's autopsy took about a week. All of the remains were x-rayed.
"We were looking for anything. Bullets, a portion of a knife, any other foreign debris that we could collect as evidence," Warren says. No projectiles or portions of weapons were found. "
Essentially what we saw was a collection of bones along with other debris. A lot of mud and dirt."
There was no blood or urine to send for a toxicology but Warren says you can send skeletal muscle. He cut into the skeletal muscle and "got the best tissue" he could. He sent that in for a toxicology report.
The report came back positive for ibuprofen, a common decompositional product, carboxyhemoglobin and iron. Carboxyhemoglobin in a fire is often released along with multiple other cases. "If that is breathed in and the person is alive, you'll get a high carboxyhemoglobin level.
That's why we did the test. In this particular case, the carboxyhemoglobin level came back extremely low. There is no evidence to support that Tylee was alive when she was burned."
Warren was able to find Tylee's heart connected to her right and left lung, one kidney, a few small segments of bowel, a portion of a liver and small fragments of brain matter.
"These organs had severe decomposition, significant burning artifacts, they were charred and shrunken. Presumably the rest of hte organs burned away or were never found."
Warren was able to identify Tylee's pelvis with her femur, portions of her skull including the area where her eyeball would be and portions where her teeth would have been. Multiple long bones and rib fragments were also identified.
"There weren't nice clean bones. These were bones that had significant artifact secondary to the fire. They were blackened and charred," Warren says.
BREAKING: Warren determined Tylee's cause of death as homicide by unspecified means.
Warren determined Tylee's cause of death as homicide by unspecified means.
"The cause of death was by homicide but I just can't pinpoint exactly what that was."
We are now taking an hour lunch break.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
and I will finish up the summary tweets in (my) morning!
State witness: Dr. Garth Warren, forensic pathologist / Part 1
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
1h
Next witness up is Doctor Garth Warren.
Warren is dressed in a dark suit with a gray shirt and tie. Wood will question Warren, who is a forensic pathologist. "A forensic pathologist is a medical doctor who tries to determine how people die," he says.
Warren has been licensed to practice in Idaho for six years. He practiced in Colorado for five years. He attended the University of Health Sciences Center in Portland, Oregon and did a general pathology residency with a two-year fellowship in neuropathology.
He also did a one year fellowship in forensic pathology. Warren works for the Ada County Coroner.
Warren investigates homicides, suicides, accidents and there is an entire team that investigates these deaths. He says his job is to determine why people die.
The Ada County Coroners's Office has a contract with Madison and Fremont Counties to conduct autopsies. Warren performs 200-250 autopsies a year. He believes he's conducted 1,200-1,500 cases in Idaho.
Wood asks Warren what pathology involves. Warren says it's the study of disease and explains what some of his job involves.
Warren is a member of the American Board of Pathology and serves on other boards. He details the tests he had to pass in order to practice pathology.
Warren says cases that fall under the medical examiner/coroner's office are typically not-natural deaths. Tests are done to come up with a cause and manner of death. "That's my ultimate job - to determine the cause and manner of death" he says.
Cause of death is what causes you to die - heart attack, car crash, gunshot wound, etc. Manner of death deals more with circumstances surrounding the death and there are typically five options - natural, accident, suicide, homicide and undetermined.
Wood asks Warren what an unattended death is. Warren says the death is unattended by a clinician. If somebody dies in the hospital, that's an attended death. Someone who dies outside of the hospital without a doctor is an unattended death.
Warren says typically the body is received in a body bag. The bag is typically sealed. He opens the body bag and observes the scene as is - what were they wearing, any evidence of medical intervention, etc.
The clothes are then removed and evidence is gathered if needed. A head-to-toe exam is performed - hair, eye color, ears, fingernails are all described. Warren looks for anything that could determine cause of death.
Warren then cuts into the body, collects urine, blood, eye fluid and other things are collected from the body. Organs are inspected and weighed. Warren says he has conducted autopsies on over 200 bodies.
Warren conducted the autopsy on JJ Vallow on June 11, 2020 at the Ada County Morgue. The autopsy took about four hours. Warren says JJ died of asphyxia by plastic bag over the head and duct tape over the mouth. Bound with duct tape, bruising on the arms and abrasion to the neck.
BREAKING: Forensic pathologist says JJ Vallow died due to asphyxia by plastic bag over his head.
Warren says they received JJ's body in a body bag. He opened it up and it was wrapped in plastic. "Right from the beginning there were some things that obviously jumped out.
There was a white plastic bag over JJ's head wrapped around his face multiple times with duct tape all the way down to the neck. The forearms and the hands were bound with duct tape and the ankles were found with duct tape.
JJ was wearing a red pajama top, red pajama bottoms and black socks. Another thing that was quite obvious is the body was in a sense of decomposition. There was dirt and mold on the tops and bottoms.
You could tell even with the clothing on that the body was in a state of decomposition by the color of the skin."
The clothes were removed and submitted to law enforcement. A single cut was made on the duct tape and given to law enforcement. The plastic bag was given to the law enforcement. All of the fingernails were cut and given to law enforcement.
Oral, anal and penile swaps were conducted in case there was a sexual crime involved. A portion of the rib, bone, hair and two molars were taken out of JJ's mouth for DNA purposes.
JJ's body was in a state of decomposition. Warren describes the graphic details of the state of JJ's body. Warren found a scratch-like abrasion on the left side of JJ's neck.
There was also bruises on the left arm and a hemorrhage on the right thumbnail. "There were also other areas that were concerning or suspicious - bruising on the ankles that may have been associated with the duct tape."
Many members of the jury are taking detailed notes as Warren speaks. Lori is taking notes and looking up at the witness
There was no sign of disease. Warren made incisions on the heart and lungs. All the organs were still there and well-defined, Warren says.
"All of the organs showed decomposition changes but I did not see any trauma to the internal organs or evidence of overt natural disease to any of the organs."
Warren did not observe any rib fractures. He did not see anything unusual in the lungs.
There was no blood or urine due to the state of decomposition so a sample of JJ's liver was sent for a toxicology. Full-body x-rays were also performed but they did not show any overt fractures or abnormalities.
The toxicology report shows low levels of ethanol (alcohol), a drug called GHB (gamma hydroxybutyric acid), caffeine and theobromine (pardon the spellings) that can be found in cocoa and tea.
Wood asks Warren to characterize the amounts of GHB found in JJ Vallow. He says, "inconclusive." GHB can be found in tissues including livers postmortem and
"there's really no way for me to tell for sure whether this is just a naturally occurring product in the body that was there or if JJ was given GHB. I can't say one way or another based on the levels."
Time for a mid-morning break. Back in 15-20 minutes.
Larry and Kay Woodcock are not in the courtroom this morning. They were aware what would be discussed today. Judge Boyce is back on the bench but court staff are working out some audio issues.
NEW THREAD: Warren is back on the stand and Rod Wood continues to question. Wood asks to admit photos of the autopsy.
There are around three dozen photos taken during the autopsy that Wood asks to admit as evidence. Thomas objects and asks the court to exclude them because they are unnecessarily prejudicial. Wood responds,
"There are photographs of what actually happened. What actually transpired during the autopsy? There's no better evidence to explain the autopsy process then by these and Dr. Warren's testimony. They are true and they are accurate."
Boyce overrules the objection and photos will be admitted.
Thomas asks to have the photos shown in black-and-white. Wood objects and says that's not the reality. Boyce calls for a sidebar. White noise is played in the courtroom. The defense does not want these photos shown.
All of the attorneys have left the courtroom with the judge. Lori sits at the defense table with her back toward the spectators. Her side can be observed by jurors who sit directly across from her. Lori is writing in the yellow notebook.
Several jurors stand to stretch their legs. Lori continues to write in her notebook. Attorneys are walking back into the courtroom.
Lori's uncle, Rex Conner, is back in the courtroom today with his daughters. They, along with two victim advocates, are sitting in the prosecution benches. No other family members are in the reserved area.
Lori is chatting with her attorneys. She doesn't seem too concerned as she's smiling and actively engaged in conversation.
We are waiting for Judge Boyce to re-enter the courtroom and decide how/if the autopsy photos will be shown.
Boyce is back on the bench. He says he has considered the evidence and made a decision that it would be inappropriate for many of the photos to be publicly demonstrated due to their graphic nature.
Boyce is also concerned that the photos on the big screen would "blow them up." So the images will be shown on the monitors in front of the jurors and at the defense and prosecution table.
Spectators in the courtroom and overflow areas will not see the photos. Jurors, the defense (including Lori) and prosecution will see the photos. Wood says he did not take a position on the ruling and left it to the discretion of the court.
I will relay the information said about the photos but can not describe them as I can't see them. Warren describes the first photo as JJ in a black sealed body bag.
A red seal is on sealing the zipper of the body bag and a ruler is apparently on the photos with the case number listed on it.
Lori is looking at the screen. Thomas raises a concern that people sitting behind prosecutors can see their screen. Boyce asks Rammell to stand behind the screen so he can block the public from viewing the monitor.
Boyce jokes, "I knew having you on the prosecution would come in handy at some point."
Change of plans. The prosecutors turned the monitor around and moved their chairs so they now face the audience and there's no way for anyone in the audience to see the screen. Wood now asks for another sidebar.
There are seven 24-30 inch monitors placed throughout the jury box. Jurors will clearly see the screens showing the autopsy photos but those in the audience gallery will not.
Boyce is back on the bench and says the logistics have been worked out. Wood continues to question Dr. Warren.
The next image is a red body lock after it's been cut by the forensic team and removed. The next image is a photo after the sealed body bag is open. "At that point, we opened that bag and peel back some of the duct tape.
Then we handed over that black bag to law enforcement as evidence," Warren says.
The next photo is the first view of JJ after they opened the black plastic bag. Warren says there is a white plastic bag over the head wrapped multiple times with duct tape. The next image is a photo of the white bag over the head and the duct tape over the head.
Lori is not looking at the monitor. I've noticed one female juror who is not looking at the screen. She is looking up at the ceiling and rubbing her finger back and forth over her lips.
Warren continues to describe the autopsy photos and the extent of the decomposition fluid. "You can see a small portion of his arm, his left upper arm, and you can see it's in a state of decomposition. It has a tan, leathery appearance with skin slippage."
The next photo is the lower half of the body showing JJ's pajama pants. The next picture shows the lower half of JJ's body. His ankles are bound with duct tape. The juror who was not looking at the screen is now crying and wiping her eyes with a tissue.
The next image shows duct tape covering JJ's mouth from jawline to jawline. Lori just glanced at the screen and then looked away. "We carefully removed the plastic bag and the duct tape from JJ's head," Warren says while describing the photo.
There is decomposed tissue and fluid shown in this photo
Warren now describes a photo of the strip of duct tape covering JJ's mouth. "JJ's face is in a state of decomposition...It's green in discoloration and there is skin slippage."
The next photo is a strip of duct tape that covered JJ's mouth. It was submitted to police as evidence. The next photo shows JJ's hands wrapped multiple times with duct tape.
Most of the jurors are looking at their monitors and showing little emotion - but the one I referenced earlier is looking at the witness, at the ceiling, at the prosecutor or looking down.
Warren says the next photo shows a "large band of duct tape" that was removed from JJ's arms and given to law enforcement. The next image is the same duct tape taken from a different angle to show the inside of the duct tape.
"You can see the decomposition staining on large portions of the duct tape."
The next photo is a close-up of the duct tape around JJ's wrists. "It appeared it had been wrapped around one wrist and then the other wrist had been laid on top of it and then it was wrapped around the other wrist separately."
More images are shown of duct tape found wrapped around JJ's wrists. Now Warren describes the diaper that JJ was wearing when he was buried. There is decomposition fluid and sluffed-off tissue on the diaper.
The next photo is of JJ's face. "We always get a photograph of the decedent's face and at the time it helped us with a preliminary identification based on photos I and everyone else in the room had seen. This did look like JJ," Warren explains.
The next photo is of JJ's upper body including his face and arms. It shows the state of decomposition he was in and on his chest there is a green/tan skin discoloration. I have only seen Lori look at the screen once briefly during the presentation of the photos.
Warren describes another photo showing JJ's lower half - his legs and his feet. The next picture is of JJ face down.
"We always get photographs of a decedent laying face down so we can better evaluate the back. This simply shows there is decomposition involving the back and the shoulders."
Wood asks about white spots that are apparently on JJ's side. Warren said they are likely salt minerals that are part of the decomposition process. The next image shows JJ's lower half from the back down.
The next image is of JJ's arm highlighted with a ruler. There is some discoloration that could be associated to bruising.
Lori appears to be crying. She is wiping her eyes with tissues and will not look at the screen. The next image shows bruising on JJ's arm.
The next image is a portion of JJ's right upper arm where there was hemorrhaging, which Warren says is consistent with bruising.
Warren describes a photo of the left side of JJ's neck. "There are a couple of things you can see. One - you can see a slight or faint impression of where the duct tape was around the neck.
You can see multiple brown to light brown abrasions - some with a small amount of red hemorrhage - that was scattered on the left side of the neck."
Warren says there appears to be scratch-like abrasions on JJ's neck.
Warren describes a photo that shows bright red bruising under JJ's fingernails. "It essentially means there has been trauma to that area and blood vessels have been broken. It's essentially caused a bruise."
Exhibit 176JJ is a photo of JJ's lower body and possible bruising, Warren says.
Wood is finished with the exhibits. Boyce says the victims will be allowed to view the exhibits if they would like in another setting. Prosecutors are re-adjusting their seats to get the monitors and seats back to normal.
The feeling in the courtroom is very heavy. Even though the audience did not see the photos, we heard the description and could tell at least one juror was affected by them.
Wood asks Warren if the bruises on JJ's body were from before or after he died. Warren says they were premortem because when someone dies, there is no circulation so bodies can't bruise.
Wood asks if the bruises on the neck could be decomposition. Warren does think so. Wood now asks if Warren was involved in the autopsy of Tylee Ryan. It started on the same day as JJ's - June 11, 2020. Tylee's autopsy was done after JJ's.
"This autopsy was different. The vast majority of the time when I perform an autopsy I get an entire body and there's a process we go through. Tylee's case was different. Her remains were received in three separate sealed bags.
Two of the bags were black body bags and the third was a large brown paper bag that was sealed. Within that contacted five other paper bags within it. So I essentially received Tylee's remains in multiple different bags," Warren says.
Warren says Tylee's autopsy took about a week. All of the remains were x-rayed.
"We were looking for anything. Bullets, a portion of a knife, any other foreign debris that we could collect as evidence," Warren says. No projectiles or portions of weapons were found. "
Essentially what we saw was a collection of bones along with other debris. A lot of mud and dirt."
There was no blood or urine to send for a toxicology but Warren says you can send skeletal muscle. He cut into the skeletal muscle and "got the best tissue" he could. He sent that in for a toxicology report.
The report came back positive for ibuprofen, a common decompositional product, carboxyhemoglobin and iron. Carboxyhemoglobin in a fire is often released along with multiple other cases. "If that is breathed in and the person is alive, you'll get a high carboxyhemoglobin level.
That's why we did the test. In this particular case, the carboxyhemoglobin level came back extremely low. There is no evidence to support that Tylee was alive when she was burned."
Warren was able to find Tylee's heart connected to her right and left lung, one kidney, a few small segments of bowel, a portion of a liver and small fragments of brain matter.
"These organs had severe decomposition, significant burning artifacts, they were charred and shrunken. Presumably the rest of hte organs burned away or were never found."
Warren was able to identify Tylee's pelvis with her femur, portions of her skull including the area where her eyeball would be and portions where her teeth would have been. Multiple long bones and rib fragments were also identified.
"There weren't nice clean bones. These were bones that had significant artifact secondary to the fire. They were blackened and charred," Warren says.
BREAKING: Warren determined Tylee's cause of death as homicide by unspecified means.
Warren determined Tylee's cause of death as homicide by unspecified means.
"The cause of death was by homicide but I just can't pinpoint exactly what that was."
We are now taking an hour lunch break.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
and I will finish up the summary tweets in (my) morning!
cottonweaver
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nate eaton's tweet ' Wood asks if the bruises on the neck could be decomposition. Warren does think so'
Gigi's report of same :'The ones on JJ's neck were tan/brown/red with hemorrhage' ( Alex C from Newsnation, his report is same as Gigi's)
Gigi's report of same :'The ones on JJ's neck were tan/brown/red with hemorrhage' ( Alex C from Newsnation, his report is same as Gigi's)
Gardenista
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Lori tried to give a note to Summer yesterday and judge intercepted it. Garth Daybell supposed to testify this week and Chad's parents are supposed to testify early next week
www.courttv.com
Doomsday Cult Mom Murder Trial: Day 10 | Court TV Video
The jury heard a tumultuous phone call between defendant Lori Vallow Daybell and her sister, Summer Shiflet.
www.courttv.com
bmacmillan1
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She will thrive in ordinary prison converting her fellow inmates, it will be no punishment for her at all. Solitary confinement, however, will.
cottonweaver
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why not the pair of them together?
iirc ME said there was duct tape on the drawstring bag and upper arm bruising, symmetrical . maybe all this requires two people in concert? ( hold down by arms, tension on drawstring followed by taping it, restraint of lower limbs?)
But this is a circular argument. She must have been killed in the early morning hours of September 9th because thats when Alex was at Lori's apartment and he was at Chad's property the next day. But then we are also concluding Alex is the killer based on these same facts. I do believe Tylee was killed in the early morning hours of September 9th by Alex but I don't think we have any solid proof of that. All that we know for certain is that she was alive on 9/8 and seen at Yellowstone National Park and was dead on June 9, 2020 when her remains were discovered.
I have been keeping my own very detailed timeline of what happened and where everyone was each day from 9/1 to 12/1. I can pinpoint things almost every day during that period except the 5 or 6 days after 9/9 and 9/23. Those days are oddly quiet and empty.
Tortoise
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Yes, it sounds to me like a two person job. Just using duct tape on a roll is hard enough for one person to manage I think.
Trebor5591
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Probably not, in my opinion, Lori got others to do her killing for her.
Jolynna
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Whether Lori alone did the deed or she did it with Alex or with Chad -- JJ, and Tylee were Lori's innocent children. She had OTHER CHOICES, but she chose to do what she thought would profit HER the most.
I really, really, really want Lori to feel some iota of shame, regret, or pain over what she did. But, I think she might be happy dancing alone in her cell imagining herself either on another planet or on some Hawaiian beach. Disassociation seems to be Lori's superpower. As well as a lack of empathy or concern about what she inflicted upon other human beings to get what she wanted.
My opinion only.
formerlyme
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If any one of these could have possibly caused her death, there would be no reason to dismember and burn this young girl … and just walk away…
Warren was aware of Tylee's medical conditions: anxiety, ovarian cysts, pancreatitis, other stomach auto-immune conditions. Warren says none of those conditions would likely lead to her death.
Warren was aware of Tylee's medical conditions: anxiety, ovarian cysts, pancreatitis, other stomach auto-immune conditions. Warren says none of those conditions would likely lead to her death.
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