Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[alter idem]

Very much MOO and I don't have a good handle on Chad's beliefs, but what little I've picked up, plus Lori's (being a reincarnated wife of Joseph Smith, for example) is going to be perceived as out there by a typical person, Mormon or not. I think those in their own group of people, whoever they are (Chad's AVOV bunch, maybe, but we don't really know) are those I think are assisting them, assuming they are getting help.

Mainstream members of the LDS church would not have a clue what's going on with these fringey members and would be shocked by their bizarre beliefs. Chad's most famous Author has some very strange beliefs that contradict LDS doctrine, and are similar to Lori Vallow's if she actually thinks she's a reincarnated wife of Joseph Smith. This person also claims to have lived many past lives and claims to have been famous people. Just one of the reasons she's now excommunicated. I've been feeling that the one group that might assist Chad and Lori are some at AVOW. They may have the resources and the motivation, since they could be hearing Chad's explanations that paint him as innocent and being harrassed by LE, MOO.
Also, in looking at the name of the woman Alex Cox married, I found the same name listed as a registered user on AVOW, and I'm quite certain it's the same person, given what we know about her. So, yes, AVOW is a likely place to find people who would help hide them, not because they are LDS, but because they share esoteric, 'gnostic' beliefs that bind them together, the church connection is peripheral, the doomsday, prepping, dreams, energy healing etc. is what they have in common. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Guys I am not yet caught up on all this craziness post holidays. Going back to read but can someone just briefly tell me who Lori told that Tylee died and who Chad told that Lori doesn’t have any minor children? I missed that in my skimming, and that is just OMG crazy crazy crazy. Just wow. TIA!

I don't think that is known except to LE. I think this is what has come out in their investigations.

ETA I see someone has already answered.

I have been wondering if any relatives or friends were invited to the wedding. Has anyone found out where and when it was yet?

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

Thank you @Maxxer500 for all of your insight into this horrible situation.

Do you happen to know the make/model of any of Chad’s or Tammy’s vehicles?

I only ask because of footage from California on December 30th of what appears to be a ca. 2005 dark grey Lexus RX 330 driving off of the side of a cliff, and with Lori’s previous discussion of driving off of cliff sides with her children ("It's gonna be the end of the world, and we should all just drive off a cliff and kill us and our kids and die all at the same time."), I am wondering if they could attempt something similar that may be broken separately in the news as simply a car accident that we should be on the look out for.

Thank you, again, for your time.

Note: References are provided on my previous post on this topic.

I saw this today and this never occurred to me. Something else for the family to worry about. :-(

 

[PJFL]

Police issue stark warning to mom of missing Idaho children

Lori Vallow's son during his very brief moment on GMA earlier this morning.

 

[alter idem]

What I wonder is why LDS leadership doesn’t issue a statement asking Chad and Lori to tell LE where JJ and Tylee are, and asking any members w/info to come forward. Seriously, why don’t they?

I have seen screenshots of things Chad Daybell shared on AVOW which were posted at LDSfreedomforum; one thread there was about a 'train' dream he had. From the dream he shared, I believe that Chad Daybell wouldn't care what LDS leadership had to say, he doesn't recognize their authority or listen to their teachings any longer. I'm sure he did at one time, but the Train dream he posted was from a couple of years ago and it was clear from the implications of it's content that he doesn't consider LDS leaders inspired. He thinks church leaders today are silent and not really leading the church as they should--he believes that he and his associates will be the ones the LDS leaders will come to for guidance one day. While I've only seen claims in the media that Chad believed himself to be a prophet, I believe it is likely true, as he clearly believed his dream was inspired and shared it with those at AVOW. So, unfortunately, it wouldn't matter if they issued a statement, he'd just see it as the church 'persecuting' him, MOO.

 

[LHS]

Mainstream members of the LDS church would not have a clue what's going on with these fringey members and would be shocked by their bizarre beliefs. Chad's most famous Author has some very strange beliefs that contradict LDS doctrine, and are similar to Lori Vallow's if she actually thinks she's a reincarnated wife of Joseph Smith. This person also claims to have lived many past lives and claims to have been famous people. Just one of the reasons she's now excommunicated. I've been feeling that the one group that might assist Chad and Lori are some at AVOW. They may have the resources and the motivation, since they could be hearing Chad's explanations that paint him as innocent and being harrassed by LE, MOO.
Also, in looking at the name of the woman Alex Cox married, I found the same name listed as a registered user on AVOW, and I'm quite certain it's the same person, given what we know about her. So, yes, AVOW is a likely place to find people who would help hide them, not because they are LDS, but because they share esoteric, 'gnostic' beliefs that bind them together, the church connection is peripheral, the doomsday, prepping, dreams, energy healing etc. is what they have in common. MOO.

Very correct in differentiating the two groups. They do have a few overlaps, but it would the those that overlap into AVOW that LE should be looking at. PAP isn't secretive at all and the creators have already issued a public statement and are assisting LE in any way they can. AVOW, not so much.

This is also a correct statement about the difference between LDS beliefs and this group's bizarre different beliefs. I've said they were more of an extremist group and I meant that.

I was so worried about those kids all night that I dreamed about it. The comparison tot he Susan Cox Powell case is very disturbing to me as they still have not found her. Dear Lord above... don't let this be another nightmare like that one!!

 

[tresir2012]

I saw this today and this never occurred to me. Something else for the family to worry about. :-(

Here's a good MSM report and the dashcam footage of the incident taken by an oncoming driver. It does not seem like they have retrieved anyone or even know whether they have found some of the right car parts from the ocean. Unbelievable.

SUV drives off California cliff – but neither vehicle nor occupants has been found, authorities say

For some context, here is the article below at the bottom of this post where she said this to a friend : -

"Her friend vividly remembers one disturbing thing Lori would allegedly say, "It's gonna be the end of the world and we should all just drive off a cliff and kill us and our kids and die all at the same time."

Now, she wonders how she trusted the woman.

"I would've trusted her with my kids more than I would've trusted anybody." "


Former friend of missing woman, kids speaks of her complicated marital past, with two husbands dead


Hopefully somebody who knows where these kids are will do the right thing and call LE.

 

[mzmarple]

I wonder if child abandonment was being considered at the time, in order to terminate Lori's parental rights somehow. She was gone for almost two months.

"Larry said things changed about 2 to 3 years ago as Lori grew distant and abandoned her family in February 2019.

“Lori just simply vanished,” he said. “(For) 58 days she was completely gone,” said Kay.

She said Lori told Charles she no longer cared about him or JJ shortly before leaving. During that time, they believe Lori had Tylee stay with other relatives."

Grandparents Of One Of Missing Rexburg Children Speak Out

BBM
So Charles was caring for JJ during Lori’s 2-month disappearing act. Does anyone actually know where Tylee was during that time? That’s really alarming.

 

[alter idem]

I don't disagree with your POV that focusing on Chad's/Lori's beliefs here won't directly help us find Tylee and JJ. BUT, understanding how the LDS beliefs might be impacting people that are part of Lori and Chads world's could most definitely IMO help the search if there is something in those beliefs that is stopping them from cooperating with LE to find the 2 missing children. Its hard to detangle the presence of the LDS Church from the participants in this case as members of the church in one way or another touch almost every aspect of this case, including LE (particularly in Rexburg). I am not saying this to condemn the LDS Church but I am surprised that there hasn't been anything vocalised even from the local ward to encourage people that might have know JJ and Tylee to seek out LE with any information. Perhaps this has happened and just hasn't been visible to the public. I do know in missing cases that community involvement and participation is critical.

Understanding the beliefs of the people that might be protecting and sheltering Lori and Chad could however be beneficial. I think it might be easy to simply dismiss Chad/Lori's beliefs as 'fringe' and 'outside the mainstream' of LDS Church, but the fact is that even with their 'fringe' beliefs they still appear to be part of the larger LDS Church and community as they haven't been ex ed. LDS faithful might just think they are sheltering 'one of their own' and see no issue in turning a blind eye to seeing Chad/Lori or the 2 children even? IDK. We haven't heard a statement from anyone associated with the Church in Rexburg or elsewhere condemning the situation and encouraging people to assist LE. Even if a condemning statement about Chad/Lori wasn't made, I do think it might be helpful to encourage people to assist LE to the extent they have information. We have seen none of that, at least publicly. In other cases, we have seen religious organisations actively step up and encourage their members to assist LE and some even organise searches etc. Here in this case we have seen nothing but silence from the community (religious or otherwise) based on MSM. Compared to other missing cases IMO its a bit strange to see no community component or compassion for 2 missing children.

Rexburg is roughly 90% LDS and there are other LDS dominated communities like Rexburg where Chad/Lori might just be. You don't think it's possible that general mistrust of LE by a broader LDS community in a place like Rexburg might just be why JJ who was in school was never reported missing either by his school or anyone that might have known him in Rexburg?

It took his grandparents requesting a welfare check 2 months after the fact to get this case rolling. Why didn't anyone in Rexburg do anything to report the children missing? Why didn't Chad Daybell's family do anything to report the children missing or why didn't Lori Vallow Daybell's parents report their grandchildren missing? Doesn't this all strike you as just a bit strange that not one person in LDS dominated Rexburg didn't realise that an 8 yo. special needs child who was enrolled in school suddenly vanished? I'm not asking the same question about Tylee as I'm not sure who in Rexburg might have had contact with her to report her missing as it wasn't clear that she was enrolled in school. Right now based on limited info it simply appears that nobody in Rexburg noticed or cared that an 8 yo special needs child vanishes. Are there other children in Rexburg that simply vanish and are never reported missing?

We have seen Chad Daybell's children saying they support their father and then make the choice to not assist LE. This is most likely quite detrimental to the investigation to find JJ and Tylee IMO.

MOO

Others have brought this up and I think it's important to note. While 90% might identify as LDS, that sure doesn't mean 90% are active, believers. Identifying as LDS may mean cultural to some, not doctrinal. I suspect the school has reasons why they didn't report Joshua missing, maybe his mom said they were moving, or she was going to homeschool, but whatever the reason, I don't think the school has explained, that I know of. If the family wasn't close to other neighbors, if they weren't attending church, to have someone miss them, if the grandparents live far away and the only thing they had to go on was that they couldn't catch Joshua for a phone conversation, there's a lot of reasons why this went unnoticed till relatives started to get alarmed and asked for help from LE. And I don't blame the Daybell children as I'm not sure they even knew of their father's relationship wit Lori Vallow until after he was married to her and the children were already missing, so they would not have even known of their existence. MOO.

 

[Steelslady]

Colby Ryan appeared on Good Morning America today (video): Good Morning America on Twitter

It is said in the video that Colby has no idea if his mother knows the whereabouts of his siblings.

Did Colby say when he last saw or heard from Tylee or Joshua? Thanks for this update. That's all telling to me.

 

[j_in_c]

Did Colby say when he last saw or heard from Tylee or Joshua? Thanks for this update. That's all telling to me.

He does not state any specifics in the video clip I saw. He seems to be cooperating with LE so I am sure they have that information and since there has been no change to the "missing since Sept 23rd" timeline, I am guessing his last contact was before then.

 

[BigAl16]

Others have brought this up and I think it's important to note. While 90% might identify as LDS, that sure doesn't mean 90% are active, believers. Identifying as LDS may mean cultural to some, not doctrinal. I suspect the school has reasons why they didn't report Joshua missing, maybe his mom said they were moving, or she was going to homeschool, but whatever the reason, I don't think the school has explained, that I know of. If the family wasn't close to other neighbors, if they weren't attending church, to have someone miss them, if the grandparents live far away and the only thing they had to go on was that they couldn't catch Joshua for a phone conversation, there's a lot of reasons why this went unnoticed till relatives started to get alarmed and asked for help from LE. And I don't blame the Daybell children as I'm not sure they even knew of their father's relationship wit Lori Vallow until after he was married to her and the children were already missing, so they would not have even known of their existence. MOO.

All of that. I live in an Idaho neighborhood in a town not very far from Rexburg. I've lived in the same house for years and rarely talk to any of the neighbors. I've had grandkids that have lived in the house for six years. Odds are that the neighbors wouldn't notice if one of the grandkids disappeared and, to be fair, odds of me noticing if one of the neighborhood kids disappeared would be slim. I think I'm probably atypical in this regard, but also not totally uncommon. Throw in that Lori lived in an apartment in a neighborhood full of apartments with a high turnover due to being a college town and her short time there the end of the summer and start of the school year and I'd have been amazed if anyone did notice a disappearing kid and think anything was amiss because of it.

 

[alter idem]

TY @Maxxer500 I hope you feel better soon. I did notice that AVOW still have Chad's books for sale on the website now, so I think Tammy would have known about this as she was the business side for the book marketing.

The owner of AVOW, it's already been reported here, is forcefully supporting Chad Daybell, so it's no surprise he's still selling his books. I assume Tammy knew about this private subforum on AVOW since she was involved in their publishing business, and as I recall from an old thread (at LDSFF)discussing why that private forum was set up in the first place, it was done for Chad's most famous author, to get her to come to AVOW and share her visions and predictions and the appeal was to allow her to make money (and Chad too, since he was her publisher at the time) and not have to deal with critics who were challenging her claims. AVOW owner also invited Chad's other Author, who also has visions and wrote at least one book with predictions to join too. It was touted as a safe place for them to share their visions and not have to deal with critics and skeptics. I don't have a clue how much they made, but the money was obviously an incentive to get these people to post there and it was a way for the AVOW owner to get more money from his AVOW users. MOO.

 

[NvrEndgStry]

Also, in looking at the name of the woman Alex Cox married, I found the same name listed as a registered user on AVOW, and I'm quite certain it's the same person, given what we know about her. So, yes, AVOW is a likely place to find people who would help hide them, not because they are LDS, but because they share esoteric, 'gnostic' beliefs that bind them together, the church connection is peripheral, the doomsday, prepping, dreams, energy healing etc. is what they have in common. MOO.

I tell ya- that’s some interesting stuff. He was married at the same place (and within a day) of Lori’s niece. So they were all in NV together just after Lori & Chad bolted. Also, in the earlier threads there was some discussion of Alex frequently visiting Columbia, but I wonder if they meant Chile because that’s where new spouse is from.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hi SB, are we allowed to sleuth BB's wife based on the DM article and the tweeted court document that appears to show he knows the shooter?
Many thanks.

Thanks for asking tresir, but no. Members may discuss and reasonably speculate what is said in MSM or in a court document but may not publicly sleuth any individual who is not an officially named POI or suspect.

The usual WS rules apply unless Tricia makes a thread specific exception in a case.

 

[janewall]

We don't know who they told, just that they said those things.
"We strongly believe that Joshua and Tylee’s lives are in danger. We are aware that in the weeks after Tammy Daybell’s death, Lori Vallow/Daybell and Chad Daybell told witnesses that Lori’s daughter had died a year before the death of her father, which is untrue. Around that same time Chad told another witness that Lori had no minor children."
Read the entire RPD news release on the Daybell investigation | East Idaho News

JMO. It is possible Chad did not know that Lori had minor children at the time he made that statement. Or when he married her. Or until the welfare check on JJ.

It appears she has often lied or at least misled many people about things she doesn't want them to know. Why not him as well?

To be clear, I don't trust that either is innocent in this tangled web. But I'm not convinced Chad had a clue about any 'complications' in Lori's life, be they her four estranged- or ex-husbands alive and deceased, or any of her children let alone those in her custody.

 

[Steelslady]

I read the article and nowhere I could find that quote you have above, or anything that led me to believe that she was in the car.

I found "He said Melani used her newfound religious beliefs to try to have him killed in August. " and "His suspicion is driven by the fact that he believes his now ex-wife Melani used her family's newfound religious beliefs to justify killing him. "

I can't say that I blame the man for thinking this. Their actions in recent months alone, coupled with the fact that they are avoiding talking to LE and only communicate through their lawyer, tells me he is right on. I just hope that B and his kids stay safe and sound. How frightening for any family members and friends to be caught up in this evil and dangerous situation.

 

[Lionsanddandelions]

Can any of our VIs comment on how religious Lori was when they knew her? I believe I read that she was born and raised in the LDS faith, but I don't get the vibe that she was especially religious/devout. There is no indication she ever had a temple marriage, and pics are floating on social media indicating she didn't follow LDS modesty dress codes, at least in an earlier marriage. At the same time, family members have said at least 2 husbands converted to LDS when they were in a relationship with her (Kay and Larry mentioned this in Gary Hughes video and other family members have said the same about Joe on social media). It also appears Tylee was invested in the mainstream LDS faith (temple photo on social media).

I am trying to better understand Lori'stimeline/relationship with religion and whether she ever was a devout Mormon. Could she have been LDS in name only? Did she attend traditional wards in her adult life?

 

[LHS]

It seems that the source for the excommunication claim came from a Dr. Cristina Rosetti who has clarified herself on twitter now. It doesn't really have bearing on the whereabouts for the kids, but it does help clarify this point that came up in the Daily Mail article and does seem to confirm that they did not report this quite accurately. One can have a disciplinary council and have 1) no change outcome, 2) probation period 3) Disfellowshipment 4) Excommunication.

Worth noting that Daybell had a disciplinary council. It’s not confirmed whether he was excommunicated. (IBM)
Twitter

 

[ur_in_a_cult]

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but there is a former policeman that Lori Vallow made podcasts with and I think it was sponsored by Preparing a People. But, I don't see how he could have been involved in investigating the shooting of Charles Vallow to influence it. Also, some seem to be confusing AVOW with Preparing a people. AVOW is a discussion forum ('A Voice Of Warning') and that is where Chad Daybell et al had private discussions. It costs to join AVOW--I think it's about 5$ per month and then there is an additional cost to join the extra private area title GRI. Preparing a People is owned and run by completely different people. They put together conferences or seminars and have speakers and vendors. Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow did some podcasts for them.

Yes, I clarified my misstatement a few posts down from my original after doing more research. A connection had been drawn in the first or second thread on this topic, so it was manyyyyy posts ago. I should have looked again before I posted but I didn't. I'll know better next time.