Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #30

[Emi]

I don't know if this video has been posted but here it is interview with Kay and Larry Woodcock

 

[tresir2012]

Exactly. They didn't ask her directly, they asked her open ended questions which in hindsight was smart b/c it causes the perp to ramble.
I'm not educated about autism. But I'd think, if asked, JJ would've been able to answer whether or not his dad took mommy's purse, or merely "did daddy come to the car" since he was supposedly in the car with bailey at the time.

Eta: Thanks to Tortoise for the transcript

No I don't think he was because she said she had taken JJ into school and left the car unlocked with the roof open. How did she know Charles had the purse?

 

[Tortoise]

No I don't think he was because she said she had taken JJ into school and left the car unlocked with the roof open. How did she know Charles had the purse?

In one of the police reports it says Charles took it to keep her there until police arrived to serve her with the committal order but she had the car key with her and drove away.

So she knew he had it.

link - Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[squareandrabbet]

Back when LVD was still LR I think: I remember reading that during the custody dispute with JR cameras had to be installed because of "strange" things going on.
Did anyone ever find out what those "strange" things were that necessitated the installation of cameras to monitor LVD's(then LR's) home inside?

You do. IIRC that was Charles' previous wife, Cheryl. I would guess that was probably all Cheryl could say or was advised to say, legally, on the topic. Maybe Joe's sister Annie knows, but she's not talking either.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Who else did she want to get rid of? I'd say Kay was probably next. Or Melani's and possibly even Ian's kids, since Melani told Ian that children that are full of light could suddendly go dark.

The pattern seems to be: PEOPLE WHO WERE AN OBSTACLE AND/OR INSURED.

You do. IIRC that was Charles' previous wife, Cheryl. I would guess that was probably all Cheryl could say or was advised to say, legally, on the topic. Maybe Joe's sister Annie knows, but she's not talking either.

Any theories? I'm kind of drawing a blank on this... why a court would agree to such a thing. What I'm thinking is that maybe TR talked of hearing people in the house, or doors opening and closing at all hours. Reasoning that it was something TR said. But that alone isnt all that strange.

 

[Anonymous91]

Thanks for your explanations. With Chad being an Executive Secretary to the ward, how important would that be considered? Could he have been on an upward path as you have described before this all happened? Also, would that position automatically give him and Tammy temple recommends? Would they have been revoked, given what has happened? I believe he has been released from the Ex Secretary position based on VI reports on here.

Well, the Executive Secretary works with the Bishop. So, on a local level, it's one of the more important positions you can get called to. He definitely was on an upward trajectory from what we know about him.

Chad would have a temple recommend when he was called to that position for sure. No idea about Lori, we don't know if she even has one. I would also assume that Tammi had a Temple recommend too, since it's unusual that she would not have one being Chad's spouse at the time he was called to be an Executive Secretary.

As far as the Temple recommends being revoked, that would be up to the local leaders. Temple recommends need to be renewed on a regular basis. In theory, Chad could use his recommend until it expires, unless his leaders tell him otherwise. How that works is outside of what I am familiar with (not in my wheelhouse). This is a very unusual circumstance, that would be interesting to know how this would be handled. I imagine that we will never find out though.

I should state that Temple worthiness is, to an extent, self governed. For example, if you started drinking alcohol (breaks the Word of Wisdom), this would null and void your temple recommend, since this is one of the requirements to be an active Temple recommend holder.

So, in theory, you should stop attending the temple immediately by your own recourse. Then you should follow up with your bishop or Stake President. At that point, the bishop/stake president would have to determine your worthiness at that point. From there it gets complicated. I won't dive any deeper, because this gets a bit too far down the rabbit hole.

In practice though, there are members that just do what they want and never self govern. If that is what Chad is doing or not, we don't know. If he has an active Temple recommend right now, we just don't know.

So, simply put, I don't know. Hope that helps.

My guess is that CD may have lost some of his followers, but from what I have heard he still has some die hard fans supporting him and Lori. It simply amazes me that people are still clinging onto defending these two after all of the facts that have been released. It's mind-blowing the mental gymnastics one would have to go through to actually justify it.

MOO

 

[Anonymous91]

As in the legal definition of Insanity, you mean? Which is generally something like a person is not aware of the consequences of their actions.
But as far as psychology is concerned there is no disease called "Insanity". They lay their clinical disorders (many of which exist comorbidly) in the DSM.
In layman's terms she is bat-sh$t crazy, but also a manipulative, conniving, self-serving, crook.
The psychologists can argue about how much Narcissist, how much Sociopath(lacking empathy), how much delusional, etc...
Personally, it doesn't matter to me... if you are this dangerous and society let you run around killing people this long, it's time to pull the plug.
People need to be much more aware of how mental illness can allow a small time crook to graduate to big time destruction.
Find them early, get them help and if that doesn't work, lock them up. And if that doesn't work, end it.

I just came across a video that is Mind-Blowing. As Dr. Ramani Durvasula was explaining these differences, she made some statements that nailed LVD to a T.

MOO

You've got to listen for yourself, and let me know what you think?

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

JMO, but I’ve read over two dozen Mormon true crime books, and I could never quite accept the theory that the children had to die because they were demon-infested, or to spare them the tribulation. That always seemed like weak sauce. But as we see more and more of Scheming, Planning Lori, it looks like JJ and Tyree had to die to cover up the death of CV at Alex’s hands. They were witnesses, and even if they were in a different room, they heard the shouting and observed everyone’s behavior before and after. Getting rid of witnesses to a murder committed for money, now that’s a motive I can understand.

 

[indicolite22]

My guess is that CD may have lost some of his followers, but from what I have heard he still has some die hard fans supporting him and Lori. It simply amazes me that people are still clinging onto defending these two after all of the facts that have been released. It's mind-blowing the mental gymnastics one would have to go through to actually justify it.
MOO

I think their (naive) supporters believe that the children are safe. If that weren't the case, there would be no explanation for Chad and Lori's public lack of care and urgency regarding the children. Secondly, those people probably distrust both the authorities and the media (or were told to), so it's easier for them to dismiss information that comes out via those channels. Lastly, their beliefs might not be far off from Chad's; they don't want that to be proven wrong.

Those who did break from Chad's circle were probably able to assess how bad things look for Chad and Lori and how bad publicly supporting the two would be for their own business.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I just came across a video that is Mind-Blowing. As Dr. Ramani Durvasula was explaining these differences, she made some statements that nailed LVD to a T.

MOO

You've got to listen for yourself, and let me know what you think?

1) I stick to my earlier statement: We should identify and help/correct these people as soon as possible in life. If they can't be fixed lock em up! If they've killed people - execute them.
2) Dr. Has an interesting place for murderous psychopaths and sociopaths - The Military. Well, thats like something out of a movie. Lets give these psychos a pass out of prison if they will go on this suicide mission... In reality I think its very dangerous to have psychopaths and sociopaths as soldiers.
Because you can't necessarily control who they kill, rape, etc. Using them in the CIA or other Intel and special service as assassins seems to carry the same risk. They are likely to be self serving which is contrary to the role. It seems entirely possible to me that these people genetically and environmentally were created by a million years (or their own formative years) of human violence. So this cycle never ends until both are addressed. Not being addressed anywhere on this planet. Even worse, incarceration or death is deemed cruel in an increasing number of places. So none of it is going away in my lifetime.
3) LVD fits the Sociopath mold to me, but I don't know her childhood behavior.
Again, for me it doesnt matter if she was born this way or grew to be this way. Either leads me to thinking we need to be pruning off this diseased branch of the human tree. And AxC in that bodycam right after he killed CV, cool as a cucumber... then the whole family has a party later the same day. Zero empathy.
4) Dr. didn't say it, but the ultimate places for either pathology is Religion, Wall street and Politics. Because of the Bill of Rights, these empathy lacking predators find safe haven under the shelter of religious liberty. A few months ago I recall reading a study that analyzed where in the usa these pathologies are highest. Connecticut and District of Columbia were the top.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Well, the Executive Secretary works with the Bishop. So, on a local level, it's one of the more important positions you can get called to. He definitely was on an upward trajectory from what we know about him.

Chad would have a temple recommend when he was called to that position for sure. No idea about Lori, we don't know if she even has one. I would also assume that Tammi had a Temple recommend too, since it's unusual that she would not have one being Chad's spouse at the time he was called to be an Executive Secretary.

As far as the Temple recommends being revoked, that would be up to the local leaders. Temple recommends need to be renewed on a regular basis. In theory, Chad could use his recommend until it expires, unless his leaders tell him otherwise. How that works is outside of what I am familiar with (not in my wheelhouse). This is a very unusual circumstance, that would be interesting to know how this would be handled. I imagine that we will never find out though.

I should state that Temple worthiness is, to an extent, self governed. For example, if you started drinking alcohol (breaks the Word of Wisdom), this would null and void your temple recommend, since this is one of the requirements to be an active Temple recommend holder.

So, in theory, you should stop attending the temple immediately by your own recourse. Then you should follow up with your bishop or Stake President. At that point, the bishop/stake president would have to determine your worthiness at that point. From there it gets complicated. I won't dive any deeper, because this gets a bit too far down the rabbit hole.

In practice though, there are members that just do what they want and never self govern. If that is what Chad is doing or not, we don't know. If he has an active Temple recommend right now, we just don't know.

So, simply put, I don't know. Hope that helps.

My guess is that CD may have lost some of his followers, but from what I have heard he still has some die hard fans supporting him and Lori. It simply amazes me that people are still clinging onto defending these two after all of the facts that have been released. It's mind-blowing the mental gymnastics one would have to go through to actually justify it.

MOO

It is amazing, but I see similar human behavior (clinging to a belief) played out every day. Women have abusive husbands dont leave them and often defend them! People pour more money into a used car than it costs to buy a new one. The more they put into it, the more they hold on to it, even though in reality the value keeps dropping. Same with losing investments. People chase it instead of cutting losses. My guess is this has to do with the human ego, not being able to admit to being wrong. I chose the wrong partner, car, investment, or end time prophet... hard stuff to admit.

 

[Tortoise]

JMO, but I’ve read over two dozen Mormon true crime books, and I could never quite accept the theory that the children had to die because they were demon-infested, or to spare them the tribulation. That always seemed like weak sauce. But as we see more and more of Scheming, Planning Lori, it looks like JJ and Tyree had to die to cover up the death of CV at Alex’s hands. They were witnesses, and even if they were in a different room, they heard the shouting and observed everyone’s behavior before and after. Getting rid of witnesses to a murder committed for money, now that’s a motive I can understand.

Except it doesn't quite fit with Lori mistreating JJ back in Jan/Feb 2019 when Charles obtained the protection order. Psychological abuse of Tylee is also evident in the police body cam footage. And I do notice that reference to Lori not wanting the kids was said in the plural, not just in reference to JJ.

moo

 

[VeryVeritas]

JMO, but I’ve read over two dozen Mormon true crime books, and I could never quite accept the theory that the children had to die because they were demon-infested, or to spare them the tribulation. That always seemed like weak sauce. But as we see more and more of Scheming, Planning Lori, it looks like JJ and Tyree had to die to cover up the death of CV at Alex’s hands. They were witnesses, and even if they were in a different room, they heard the shouting and observed everyone’s behavior before and after. Getting rid of witnesses to a murder committed for money, now that’s a motive I can understand.

Definitely. TR was apparently out of her room because supposedly thats where the bat came from (her). In the police report, she had to go back inside to retrieve LVD's purse. Why would LVD send her daughter back in there? Then TR claimed she didn't see anything. It appears to me that TR was told what to say to LE. And JJ would'nt start asking about CV being shot? Everyone had to hear the gunshots, thats not something they would forget. A child like JJ might openly and repeatedly ask, why did uncle Ax shoot Daddy? TR knowing what really happened, had to have been afraid. LVD and AxC could likely see and hear it in her. They would know that if questioned TR was risk.

 

[Anonymous91]

1) I stick to my earlier statement: We should identify and help/correct these people as soon as possible in life. If they can't be fixed lock em up! If they've killed people - execute them.
2) Dr. Has an interesting place for murderous psychopaths and sociopaths - The Military. Well, thats like something out of a movie. Lets give these psychos a pass out of prison if they will go on this suicide mission... In reality I think its very dangerous to have psychopaths and sociopaths as soldiers.
Because you can't necessarily control who they kill, rape, etc. Using them in the CIA or other Intel and special service as assassins seems to carry the same risk. They are likely to be self serving which is contrary to the role. It seems entirely possible to me that these people genetically and environmentally were created by a million years (or their own formative years) of human violence. So this cycle never ends until both are addressed. Not being addressed anywhere on this planet. Even worse, incarceration or death is deemed cruel in an increasing number of places. So none of it is going away in my lifetime.
3) LVD fits the Sociopath mold to me, but I don't know her childhood behavior.
Again, for me it doesnt matter if she was born this way or grew to be this way. Either leads me to thinking we need to be pruning off this diseased branch of the human tree. And AxC in that bodycam right after he killed CV, cool as a cucumber... then the whole family has a party later the same day. Zero empathy.
4) Dr. didn't say it, but the ultimate places for either pathology is Religion, Wall street and Politics. Because of the Bill of Rights, these empathy lacking predators find safe haven under the shelter of religious liberty. A few months ago I recall reading a study that analyzed where in the usa these pathologies are highest. Connecticut and District of Columbia were the top.

I watched the video twice, didn't hear where she was recommending that they join the military, or CIA. If I missed it, can you tell me where it is in the video?

She did make some observations at what they might excel at, but seemed to point out it was because they are so good at reading people, and taking advantage of them via manipulation.

One thing that the doctor says, fits Lori perfectly, see if this sounds familiar:

"... too bad if you don't like it, this is the new world order and I will destroy you in court.." (video excerpt)

Also, she talks about how comfortable psychopaths/sociopaths are under extremely stressful situations, she gives an example of a cop pulling someone over with a dead body in the trunk. A Psychopath/Sociopath would be as cool as a cucumber.

That got me thinking about how strange Lor's reaction was after CV was killed. She seemed to be "as cool as a cucumber". Didn't seem to phase her at all. - JMO
MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Was AxC married before ZP? He apparently had no known children of his own. The more I see and know about him, he seems like the sort of guy that would pay strippers and prostitutes rather than have a normal relationship.

i don't think we have ever been able to answer this... Somehow someone here indicated he did go to some country in Central America for women. And I believe we also have evidence that he was a gambler. moo moo

 

[Tortoise]

i don't think we have ever been able to answer this... Somehow someone here indicated he did go to some country in Central America for women. And I believe we also have evidence that he was a gambler. moo moo

In one of his stand-up performances, one of the first things he says is 'you look good, makes me wish I was straight'.

 

[indicolite22]

That got me thinking about how strange Lor's reaction was after CV was killed. She seemed to be "as cool as a cucumber". Didn't seem to phase her at all. - JMO
MOO

Neither she nor Alex seemed upset over Charles' death. IMO it's possible to use emotional detachment as a coping mechanism even if you're not a psycho/sociopath.

 

[watergirl62]

Back when LVD was still LR I think: I remember reading that during the custody dispute with JR cameras had to be installed because of "strange" things going on.
Did anyone ever find out what those "strange" things were that necessitated the installation of cameras to monitor LVD's(then LR's) home inside?

You do. IIRC that was Charles' previous wife, Cheryl. I would guess that was probably all Cheryl could say or was advised to say, legally, on the topic. Maybe Joe's sister Annie knows, but she's not talking either.

Do we know if Tylee was being home-schooled at that time? I can't imagine she would be learning much in the atmosphere surrounding the custody battle if Lori was in vendetta-mode with Joe Ryan. Not a healthy environment, to say the least.

Where was Colby living? Also, where were Charles and Cheryl's sons were living? Hopefully they were with mom.

Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News

 

[Nurse Gen]

1) I stick to my earlier statement: We should identify and help/correct these people as soon as possible in life. If they can't be fixed lock em up! If they've killed people - execute them.
2) Dr. Has an interesting place for murderous psychopaths and sociopaths - The Military. Well, thats like something out of a movie. Lets give these psychos a pass out of prison if they will go on this suicide mission... In reality I think its very dangerous to have psychopaths and sociopaths as soldiers.
Because you can't necessarily control who they kill, rape, etc. Using them in the CIA or other Intel and special service as assassins seems to carry the same risk. They are likely to be self serving which is contrary to the role. It seems entirely possible to me that these people genetically and environmentally were created by a million years (or their own formative years) of human violence. So this cycle never ends until both are addressed. Not being addressed anywhere on this planet. Even worse, incarceration or death is deemed cruel in an increasing number of places. So none of it is going away in my lifetime.
3) LVD fits the Sociopath mold to me, but I don't know her childhood behavior.
Again, for me it doesnt matter if she was born this way or grew to be this way. Either leads me to thinking we need to be pruning off this diseased branch of the human tree. And AxC in that bodycam right after he killed CV, cool as a cucumber... then the whole family has a party later the same day. Zero empathy.
4) Dr. didn't say it, but the ultimate places for either pathology is Religion, Wall street and Politics. Because of the Bill of Rights, these empathy lacking predators find safe haven under the shelter of religious liberty. A few months ago I recall reading a study that analyzed where in the usa these pathologies are highest. Connecticut and District of Columbia were the top.

"A few months ago I recall reading a study that analyzed where in the usa these pathologies are highest. Connecticut and District of Columbia were the top." Reference???

 

[k-mac]

I watched the video twice, didn't hear where she was recommending that they join the military, or CIA. If I missed it, can you tell me where it is in the video?

She did make some observations at what they might excel at, but seemed to point out it was because they are so good at reading people, and taking advantage of them via manipulation.

One thing that the doctor says, fits Lori perfectly, see if this sounds familiar:

"... too bad if you don't like it, this is the new world order and I will destroy you in court.." (video excerpt)

Also, she talks about how comfortable psychopaths/sociopaths are under extremely stressful situations, she gives an example of a cop pulling someone over with a dead body in the trunk. A Psychopath/Sociopath would be as cool as a cucumber.

That got me thinking about how strange Lor's reaction was after CV was killed. She seemed to be "as cool as a cucumber". Didn't seem to phase her at all. - JMO
MOO

ill go one further.
she has dupers delight.....still!!