Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #30

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Anonymous91 said:
I watched the video twice, didn't hear where she was recommending that they join the military, or CIA. If I missed it, can you tell me where it is in the video?

She did make some observations at what they might excel at, but seemed to point out it was because they are so good at reading people, and taking advantage of them via manipulation.

One thing that the doctor says, fits Lori perfectly, see if this sounds familiar:

"... too bad if you don't like it, this is the new world order and I will destroy you in court.." (video excerpt)

Also, she talks about how comfortable psychopaths/sociopaths are under extremely stressful situations, she gives an example of a cop pulling someone over with a dead body in the trunk. A Psychopath/Sociopath would be as cool as a cucumber.

That got me thinking about how strange Lor's reaction was after CV was killed. She seemed to be "as cool as a cucumber". Didn't seem to phase her at all. - JMO
MOO
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Didn't mean to imply that she said CIA, Intel agencies... that was an extrapolation on my part because they literally are also in the legitimized killing and manipulation business.
She did mention military in the context that it produces some of the sociopaths (she didn't go into detail). The implication is because they have to be taught to kill(which isn't very easy for someone taught that it is wrong or naturally has empathy - most people). How do we assess when its been carried too far? Dr. qualified by saying "under some conditions" (I don't know what those conditions would be, but training people to be combat ready killers by experienced combat soldiers isn't like baking cakes)
And what happens when someone who already lacks empathy joins the military? One the one hand they might excel at some tasks but get into trouble in other areas.
I'm sure the military does its best to weed out bad apples, but when you are in the business of death it has to be a bit harder than weeding these people out of the civilian sector.
That was part of my point... the rest of it was that this is a condition that is embedded in our humanity, both genetically and sociologically. I don't see a way to fix it, but I do think we should be very active in weeding it out.
Because if we don't focus on that, we are just creating more and more of it.
 
Tortoise said:
In one of his stand-up performances, one of the first things he says is 'you look good, makes me wish I was straight'.

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Alex’s blind faith in Lori is stunning. She accused JR of pedophila, and Alex assaults him. Alex is proud enough of this crime to include it in his act as joke about vigilante justice. She spins a tale to LE of infidelity regarding Charles, which I guess Alex bought, too. Alex shoots him.

The complex relationship between Alex and Lori has been discussed in quite a few threads. The Cox family dynamic is a deep mystery we can’t solve as there is no contact with them and they cannot be discussed here other than Alex, Lori and occasionally MBP.

There is a lot written about the narcissist/sibling relationship as so many have been traumatized by their mentally ill sibling. I found this piece interesting as it reflects on the idea that the (Lori) narcissistic/sociopathic sibling may have tortured their sibling (Alex) since early childhood and this behavior was condoned by their parents. Perhaps Lori was their “golden child”. It goes on to suppose that some parents are narcissists as well, which reinforces this abnormal behavior. http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/narcissistic-sociopathic-siblings-forever-cruel/

The snip below, BBM , reminded of the blowout argument Lori and Alex had that was reported by a neighbor.

“The ugly frightening words that scared you into doing everything their way. Many parents are oblivious to these cruelties. Some mothers and fathers are narcissists. They adore the golden child torturer and don’t give a damn what this cruel cunning beast does to you. Their focus is on the perfect chosen one that acts as a narcissistic supply and impeccable mirror to keep their egos fully inflated.”
 
utahobserver said:
Alex’s blind faith in Lori is stunning. She accused JR of pedophila, and Alex assaults him. Alex is proud enough of this crime to include it in his act as joke about vigilante justice. She spins a tale to LE of infidelity regarding Charles, which I guess Alex bought, too. Alex shoots him.

The complex relationship between Alex and Lori has been discussed in quite a few threads. The Cox family dynamic is a deep mystery we can’t solve as there is no contact with them and they cannot be discussed here other than Alex, Lori and occasionally MBP.

There is a lot written about the narcissist/sibling relationship as so many have been traumatized by their mentally ill sibling. I found this piece interesting as it reflects on the idea that the (Lori) narcissistic/sociopathic sibling may have tortured their sibling (Alex) since early childhood and this behavior was condoned by their parents. Perhaps Lori was their “golden child”. It goes on to suppose that some parents are narcissists as well, which reinforces this abnormal behavior. Narcissistic/Sociopathic Siblings—Forever Cruel | The Narcissist In Your Life

The snip below, BBM , reminded of the blowout argument Lori and Alex had that was reported by a neighbor.

“The ugly frightening words that scared you into doing everything their way. Many parents are oblivious to these cruelties. Some mothers and fathers are narcissists. They adore the golden child torturer and don’t give a damn what this cruel cunning beast does to you. Their focus is on the perfect chosen one that acts as a narcissistic supply and impeccable mirror to keep their egos fully inflated.”
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Thanks, didn't know the details of the JR dispute. That explains a lot. False accusations is what she used to destroy those Exes. And Ax is the instrument of her wrath and eventually martyred for her sake. Just a few strategic lies gets people attacked or killed and causes financial ruin.
 
I will put this out here. I will try not to get off topic. I lived with a diagnosed narcissist for 6 years. He hid alot of his past. He was extremely abusive, emotionally and physically. I felt like I couldn't leave. He hunted me down after I got away. It's been 2 1/2 years, I still look over my shoulder. I feel like he will ultimately kill me. Its terrifying to say the least. We didnt have children, thank the lord. MOO I can see LVD as a narcissist. The hold she has on her ex's were the children. They couldn't stay away because of the children. LVD had AxC who would do anything fo feed his own ego. LVD makes herself to be the victim to get her way. Cheryl said they put cameras in the house, because her boys were coming back saying weird things were going on. CV and JR weren't playing by LVD rules. (If you don't you will suffer) On one hand she liked the attention and playing victim to her mean husbands.( who were truly loving) On the other she wants to go on about her life. She wanted their money and social standing. She wanted to live a grand life. She definitely throws away what can't serve her any longer. That's what makes this so interesting. Did she throw these children away? She very well could have. Did she just hide them? She very well could have. Just because she's making CV family suffer. Narcissist people love to have drama. They are exhausting to normal humans.She is very cunning. One day I lean towards the children being not on this earth. The next I lean towards she has hidden them. This is how she plays. She wants the confusion. She can manipulate through the confusion. Everyone is off gaurd. IMO only. JMO
 
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TexieLouWho21 said:
I will put this out here. I will try not to get off topic. I lived with a diagnosed narcissist for 6 years. He hid alot of his past. He was extremely abusive, emotionally and physically. I felt like I couldn't leave. He hunted me down after I got away. It's been 2 1/2 years, I still look over my shoulder. I feel like he will ultimately kill me. Its terrifying to say the least. We didnt have children, thank the lord. MOO I can see LVD as a narcissist. The hold she has on her ex's were the children. They couldn't stay away because of the children. LVD had AxC who would do anything fo feed his own ego. LVD makes herself to be the victim to get her way. Cheryl said they put cameras in the house, because her boys were coming back saying weird things were going on. CV and JR weren't playing by LVD rules. (If you don't you will suffer) On one hand she liked the attention and playing victim to her mean husbands.( who were truly loving) On the other she wants to go on about her life. She wanted their money and social standing. She wanted to live a grand life. She definitely throws away what can't serve her any longer. That's what makes this so interesting. Did she throw these children away? She very well could have. Did she just hide them? She very well could have. Just because she's making CV family suffer. Narcissist people love to have drama. They are exhausting to normal humans.She is very cunning. One day I lean towards the children being not on this earth. The next I lean towards she has hidden them. This is how she plays. She want the confusion. She can manipulate through the confusion. Everyone is off gaurd. IMO only. JMO
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Sorry you went through that hell, and congratulations on escaping. Terrifying, yes yes yes.

So the older Vallow boys lived with mom, visited at dads and reported the weird stuff. Poor kids!
 
VeryVeritas said:
It is amazing, but I see similar human behavior (clinging to a belief) played out every day. Women have abusive husbands dont leave them and often defend them! People pour more money into a used car than it costs to buy a new one. The more they put into it, the more they hold on to it, even though in reality the value keeps dropping. Same with losing investments. People chase it instead of cutting losses. My guess is this has to do with the human ego, not being able to admit to being wrong. I chose the wrong partner, car, investment, or end time prophet... hard stuff to admit.
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utahobserver said:
Alex’s blind faith in Lori is stunning. ...
There is a lot written about the narcissist/sibling relationship as so many have been traumatized by their mentally ill sibling. ...
Click to expand...

MOO I think the Lori-Alex behavior, as well as Lori-TR, Lori-MG etc behavior as well as overall her "power" to manipulate those who are close to her, is because she forms with others co-dependency relationship (as a psychopath). In very short, this is the type of relationship when one is playing victim/child/weak type, and another person plays the parent/helper/savior role. This is also the type of relationship where women have abusive husbands but dont leave them and defend them; there are many types overall. but basically, it's two not psychologically healthy individuals that realise their needs in such a relationship - one finds it very convenient when someone takes care of her/him, another one raises his own self-esteem by "helping" the first one to the extent of setting the first one as a only sense of life. That's how a personal life of psychopaths usually looks as well.
Maybe I am not giving the best description, I'll drop one link here or you can google it if you want.

ETA: children raised in dysfunctional families often find themselves stuck in co-dependent relationships for most of their life
ETA2: it's different from self-justification/rationalization, which is a defense mechanism many people use if they take wrong decisions and try to justify them
MOO JMO
 
watergirl62 said:
Sorry you went through that hell, and congratulations on escaping. Terrifying, yes yes yes.

So the older Vallow boys lived with mom, visited at dads and reported the weird stuff. Poor kids!
Click to expand...
Here is one of the articles here. I'm sure it has been posted before. There is so much information it can be hard to find.
Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News

And thank you. Alot of people do not get away from their abuser.

MOO I so see AxC as a bully. If you hurt my sister I hurt you type. LVD as I didn't do anything. It was him.
 
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April_Dawn99 said:
MOO I think the Lori-Alex behavior, as well as Lori-TR, Lori-MG etc behavior as well as overall her "power" to manipulate those who are close to her, is because she forms with others co-dependency relationship (as a psychopath). In very short, this is the type of relationship when one is playing victim/child/weak type, and another person plays the parent/helper/savior role. This is also the type of relationship where women have abusive husbands but dont leave them and defend them; there are many types overall. but basically, it's two not psychologically healthy individuals that realise their needs in such a relationship - one finds it very convenient when someone takes care of her/him, another one raises his own self-esteem by "helping" the first one to the extent of setting the first one as a only sense of life. That's how a personal life of psychopaths usually looks as well.
Maybe I am not giving the best description, I'll drop one link here or you can google it if you want.

ETA: children raised in dysfunctional families often find themselves stuck in co-dependent relationships for most of their life
ETA2: it's different from self-justification/rationalization, which is a defense mechanism many people use if they take wrong decisions and try to justify them
MOO JMO
Click to expand...
What is also particularly interesting is this narcissistic/sociopathic symbiotic relationship between Alex and Lori combined with the shared psychotic disorder between Chad and Lori and potentially others (which a few of us have discussed in earlier threads).

So much psychological malalignment in this case. It is literally amazing.
 
utahobserver said:
What is also particularly interesting is this narcissistic/sociopathic symbiotic relationship between Alex and Lori combined with the shared psychotic disorder between Chad and Lori and potentially others (which a few of us have discussed in earlier threads).

So much psychological malalignment in this case. It is literally amazing.
Click to expand...
It is that it has gone on to such an extent without being checked. It's not unusual for disorders to be comorbid. There are probably a few more for the list.
 
TexieLouWho21 said:
I will put this out here. I will try not to get off topic. I lived with a diagnosed narcissist for 6 years. He hid alot of his past. He was extremely abusive, emotionally and physically. I felt like I couldn't leave. He hunted me down after I got away. It's been 2 1/2 years, I still look over my shoulder. I feel like he will ultimately kill me. Its terrifying to say the least. We didnt have children, thank the lord. MOO I can see LVD as a narcissist. The hold she has on her ex's were the children. They couldn't stay away because of the children. LVD had AxC who would do anything fo feed his own ego. LVD makes herself to be the victim to get her way. Cheryl said they put cameras in the house, because her boys were coming back saying weird things were going on. CV and JR weren't playing by LVD rules. (If you don't you will suffer) On one hand she liked the attention and playing victim to her mean husbands.( who were truly loving) On the other she wants to go on about her life. She wanted their money and social standing. She wanted to live a grand life. She definitely throws away what can't serve her any longer. That's what makes this so interesting. Did she throw these children away? She very well could have. Did she just hide them? She very well could have. Just because she's making CV family suffer. Narcissist people love to have drama. They are exhausting to normal humans.She is very cunning. One day I lean towards the children being not on this earth. The next I lean towards she has hidden them. This is how she plays. She wants the confusion. She can manipulate through the confusion. Everyone is off gaurd. IMO only. JMO
Click to expand...

I can relate. My Psychologist strongly suspected that my ex had BPD and Narcissism. I was never able to officially confirm, since she claimed that she had "no problems" it was always me. Fortunately, she is halfway around the world now. The thought of seeing her face to face terrifies me to this day, and it's been over a decade.

I've noticed some other things about Lori, that really makes one wonder, I am very curious what she will be officially diagnosed with. One of the other observations that I noticed about Lori that sticks out, to me at least, is the following:

Ever since her first husband she has always been taken care of, and has never had to work or fend for herself. If we knew more about her childhood, and her first 3 husbands, I am sure that would give us a better picture of her in general.

This would help explain why she is husband hopping so fast. Do we know the time frames in between marriages, that could be telling.

The fact that she has had 5 husbands is very surprising. One of the things I thought about, is I wonder if she has a fear of abandonment, that could go all the way back to her childhood.

Someone that has this fear can also be so alienating to their partners, that the marriage gets to the point, that their partners just want out.

If that has been what has been happening, she might have figured out, along the way, that she didn't like that, and she wasn't going to put up with it any longer. Case in point, look at JR and CV. They wanted out, and now they're both dead.

Tylee would have been next, since she would eventually leave LVD next, they may have already talked about it. JJ may have wanted to visit Grandma & Grandpa for a week like he had in the past, and talked to Lori about this. If he had, he would have been next on the list. She could have seen this as JJ wanting to abandon her too. Again, her new Modus Operandi, is that if someone abandons her she'll just get rid of them. This may be where the whole zombie thing comes in, to help justify the deaths taking place.

It's always been curious the timing of her getting with CD, it feels so rushed. It makes sense though, if she has a fear of abandonment, since she now has someone new to attach to.

Poor Chad. Sorry, not sorry.

A psychologist is going to find her very fascinating. I am sure in they're world, her diagnosis will be talked about for years to come.

Side-note: The character Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory, is intentionally made up of multiple disorders. Apparently enough that the science community put out a paper related to it, https://www.longdom.org/open-access...roducing-sheldon-cooper-2375-4427-1000146.pdf

Thoughts?

MOO
 
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Nurse Gen said:
I thought TOS requires MSM references? This is a link to a term paper, not to peer reviewed academic research MOO
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Not sure if the NY Post is MSM enough? I'm not sure who the judge of MSM enough is to ask. In this case I saw the MSM article and had read it months ago. I was asked to provide the link. When I saw this article it references that study, I previously posted as the source. So it seemed better to skip to the root source. I don't know what gives you the idea that it's a "Term Paper". There are 15 references cited by Dr. Ryan Murphy at Southern Methodist University in Texas. SMU is an accredited and well known institution. https://nypost.com/2018/06/19/this-place-is-far-more-psychopathic-than-any-state-in-the-country/
 
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Nurse Gen said:
I thought TOS requires MSM references? This is a link to a term paper, not to peer reviewed academic research MOO
Click to expand...
VeryVeritas said:
Not sure if the NY Post is MSM enough? I'm not sure who the judge of MSM enough is to ask. In this case I saw the MSM article and had read it months ago. I was asked to provide the link. When I saw this article it references that study, I previously posted as the source. So it seemed better to skip to the root source. I don't know what gives you the idea that it's a "Term Paper". There are 15 references cited by Dr. Ryan Murphy at Southern Methodist University in Texas. SMU is an accredited and well known institution. https://nypost.com/2018/06/19/this-place-is-far-more-psychopathic-than-any-state-in-the-country/
Click to expand...

For reference, awhile back, I posted a link to the BYU archive referencing an academic paper published in 1963 regarding the LeBaron Family, the Church of the First Born and blood atonement and it was not removed.

SSRN is a site for early stage research. Generally, the academics publishing there are looking for collaborators or grants. Murphy’s paper has been downloaded 32,000 times and the abstract viewed 92,000 times. That now probably includes me.

I would hope the Mods would allow intellectual referencing as long as it stays within copyright restrictions. Linking does that.
 
I have a question for the legal eagles: On page 2, lines 9-10 of Charles Vallow's 15 February 2019 divorce petition, it states: "Parties have one (1) minor child in common, namely: Joshua Jaxon Vallow ("JJ")" On lines 10-11 of page 3 it states "(the parties have emancipated children along with JJ)" This appears to assert something I wasn't aware of: Tylee was an emancipated minor.

So my question is: Under Idaho law, can you be charged with abandonment of an emancipated minor?
 
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