Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #12

[arizonamomoffour]

Here is a question I have for legal eagles.

The order of protection included JJ. Then CV dropped it. Does our system follow up in any way to know that a child is safe for that order to be dropped? Does CPS investigate or is this a dropped ball or loophole?

Oh, hhhmm sounds like maybe the police should do a well fair check

Absolutely!

 

[arizonamomoffour]

Oh wow. I had no idea.

I didn't know this as a parent. It wasn't until I student-taught for my Education License that I found out.

 

[tealrose]

I wonder if they were searching for any records that JJ spoke up and said anything, or had any unusual behavior that day or in the days following?

 

[earthgurl]

Misleading Lori and Alex? Hoping to trip them up?

They obviously know more than they're letting on. First degree homicide is intentional/premeditated - so they likely have some sort of evidence that lead them to believe that CV was intentionally killed. JMO

Does anyone think that Lori will use the location of her children to bargain now?

Honestly, I think that bargaining chip went out the window when she didn't show up for court in Rexburg with the kids. I could be wrong though.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Yes, but since then they’ve publicly stated multiple times that they have no reason to question the original reports and conclusions that it was a self defense shooting. And that the only reason the case is still open is because of the missing kids.

Unfortunately I don’t share your renewed faith. I have no faith at all unless some other LE agency steps in to take over.

Their statement that the investigation is only open because of the missing kids is ridiculous... unless they believe those kids have information that may shed light on the CV murder. If LE believed it was self defense, the investigation would be closed, the missing kids would not impact that at all.

 

[Bazinga]

Photos of Lori and Chad
I've been meaning to ask - Are the two photos (often side by side in media) of Chad and Lori with blue background Mugshots or booking photos? I'm in Australia so not familiar but they don't look like family photos. Anyone know the source or original purpose of these two photos? Thank you!

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Kim Powell on Twitter

Kim Powell: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell’s #Kauai condo seems quiet right now. Neighbors said they’ve only seen them once since Saturday. All curtains are shut, no answer at the door. I’m live in #Hawaii with the latest on the case of the #MissingSiblings from #Idaho on #azfamily

Did they stockpile food or is it being delivered?? MOO

 

[Colorado303]

Investigations take time, often months or even years.

I get that. But why not say “it’s an ongoing investigation” instead of reiterating they stand behind the original team’s self-defense conclusion? Why say “the only reason the case is still open” is the missing kids? The kids weren’t missing at the time of the homicide so keeping it open has nothing to do further investigation of CV’s murder.

As I’ve said before I am usually a staunch supporter of LE, but not to the point of overlooking really bad police work.

I want pressure put on them until they do the job they should have done in the first place. Even better, have another agency step in and start all over.

 

[arizonamomoffour]

They obviously know more than they're letting on. First degree homicide is intentional/premeditated - so they likely have some sort of evidence that lead them to believe that CV was intentionally killed. JMO



Honestly, I think that bargaining chip went out the window when she didn't show up for court in Rexburg with the kids. I could be wrong though.

Kind of hoping against hope.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I know in the UK we record anything that is cause for concern, any off the cuff statements that a child may make that cause alarm but don’t (yet) warrant a call to child and family services.

We would keep records of attendance, records of bruises, anything really that causes concern and may be needed at a later date. The last sentence in the statement from the school was very telling tbh ‘JJ Loved to talk about his family’.

MOO that’s come on advice from the police and it’s to let LV know little JJ said a lot already before she pulled him out of school. All MOO

BBM... oh dear, that makes me more worried than the storage locker...

 

[mickey2942]

Here is a question I have for legal eagles.

The order of protection included JJ. Then CV dropped it. Does our system follow up in any way to know that a child is safe for that order to be dropped? Does CPS investigate or is this a dropped ball or loophole?

It pretty much goes no where, unless someone continues to push it. Since the original complainant dropped the issue, the easiest thing to do is to administratively close the file.

This happens often in contentious divorce and custody cases. Often both parents file CPS claims against each other, allegations of all kinds of abuse. It actually "weaponizes" CPS in a "game" of custody, rather than actually being legitimate child abuse. Closing a file in those cases is the best option, unless a judge orders a home study or other court mandated actions.

 

[Lusitana]

I know in the UK we record anything that is cause for concern, any off the cuff statements that a child may make that cause alarm but don’t (yet) warrant a call to child and family services.

We would keep records of attendance, records of bruises, anything really that causes concern and may be needed at a later date. The last sentence in the statement from the school was very telling tbh ‘JJ Loved to talk about his family’.

MOO that’s come on advice from the police and it’s to let LV know little JJ said a lot already before she pulled him out of school. All MOO

Thank you! I'm in Europe, a few months ago I was called by the equivalent of my school district to come to pick up my records, from elementary school through high school. It was pretty much just my report cards and a few, very brief observations. I did find it curious that, in 9th grade, my teacher seemed concerned about me and talked to my dad about it, turns out I was having boy problems and girl drama. I never in a million years thought a teacher would caught that, I don't remember my dad ever bringing it up to me either, I only found out because I got my school records back.

 

[FindingJoLee]

I know in the UK we record anything that is cause for concern, any off the cuff statements that a child may make that cause alarm but don’t (yet) warrant a call to child and family services.

We would keep records of attendance, records of bruises, anything really that causes concern and may be needed at a later date. The last sentence in the statement from the school was very telling tbh ‘JJ Loved to talk about his family’.

MOO that’s come on advice from the police and it’s to let LV know little JJ said a lot already before she pulled him out of school. All MOO

Yeah, the school was on to her. They had probably seen the news and knew there was a strong discrepancy between her demeanor when she dropped JJ off / her explanation of suicide -- and the news reports. They also knew her. But somehow she isn't bothered with people knowing she is lying.

(Please, even the officer who took her story on the day of the murder, the one who seemed like he was being charmed by her -- even he had to know. Please tell me he wasn't actually falling for that breezy laugh??)

 

[tealrose]

Google maps informs me it's a 14-28 minute trip between
5500 S 4 Peaks Pl, Chandler, AZ 85249 (the home where CV was killed)
&
1305 S Gilbert Rd, Gilbert, AZ 85296 (the school JJ attended)

Does anyone know/remember what hotel CV was staying at?

That whole breakfast plan still doesn't make sense to me. But at least the Burger King is right on the way.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

It pretty much goes no where, unless someone continues to push it. Since the original complainant dropped the issue, the easiest thing to do is to administratively close the file.

This happens often in contentious divorce and custody cases. Often both parents file CPS claims against each other, allegations of all kinds of abuse. It actually "weaponizes" CPS in a "game" of custody, rather than actually being legitimate child abuse. Closing a file in those cases is the best option, unless a judge orders a home study or other court mandated actions.

Thank you for explaining. In this case, a murder threat, I would have expected a follow up. But I’m looking at it as a layperson. It sucks for JJ.

 

[jjenny]

Does anyone think that Lori will use the location of her children to bargain now?

Not going to be a good bargaining tool if they are not alive.

 

[tealrose]

Google maps informs me it's a 14-28 minute trip between
5500 S 4 Peaks Pl, Chandler, AZ 85249 (the home where CV was killed)
&
1305 S Gilbert Rd, Gilbert, AZ 85296 (the school JJ attended)

Does anyone know/remember what hotel CV was staying at?

That whole breakfast plan still doesn't make sense to me. But at least the Burger King is right on the way.

There are, however, a couple hotels that are right on the way, too... Ones that serve breakfast.

 

[tealrose]

Not going to be a good bargaining tool if they are not alive.

Suspects have been known to use body locations to bargain with, unfortunately.
Though I doubt she'll admit to any wrongdoing whatsoever.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

I know in the UK we record anything that is cause for concern, any off the cuff statements that a child may make that cause alarm but don’t (yet) warrant a call to child and family services.

We would keep records of attendance, records of bruises, anything really that causes concern and may be needed at a later date. The last sentence in the statement from the school was very telling tbh ‘JJ Loved to talk about his family’.

MOO that’s come on advice from the police and it’s to let LV know little JJ said a lot already before she pulled him out of school. All MOO

To add to that, the attendance records including possibly the time he arrived on the day of the shooting. Also, the school would have a list of medications he used.

So, DDD and a scholarship? CV seemed to have decent income, why a scholarship? MOO

 

[earthgurl]

What would be of interest on a elementary school kid's record? Would that include anything discussed between the child and, let's say, a school counselor? That wouldn't be okay, right?

I'm not sure if I can state this without being verified but I'm a medical biller that specializes in behavioral health and SUD billing/coding. Counselors and other behavioral health providers usually keep their own set of notes that would be separate from standard school records or even standard medical records. Since JJ is autistic I am assuming he was seeing some sort of therapist or counselor through his school.

I'm very familiar with what records can be released under what circumstances. School counselor or any sort of counselor notes would not likely be released to a parent via a standard school records request - those types of records are considered privileged. To release anything involving a counselor's notes or observations to a patient or guardian a separate, specific request needs made and that counselor has to sign off on the release. If there is a search warrant, those records can be released to law enforcement but only if there is a warrant.