Ragamuffin
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Has anyone read Stuart Wood's novel "Chiefs"? Small towns often harbor secrets,
Was there ever any mention of the officer having defensive wounds? I cannot imagine an officer surrendering his sidearm without a desperate fight, and so I cannot imagine it being taken without the officer having defensive wounds of some sort.
This case reminds me of Davina Buff Jones who also called in that she was investigating three people and then was found shot in the head. I believe her case was ruled a suicide but is now considered undetermined.
No no matter what happened to this officer it is a very sad story.
I'll attempt to answer this, but as you know I don't have some insider knowledge as to what was at the scene, so this is all just speculation on my part.
1) I remember hearing that the gun obtained at the scene was his 40 caliber pistol. I don't know when I heard it or if I read it, but it stuck in my head because I've had firearms my entire life and I remember thinking to myself "holy crap, that's a big bullet to get shot with".
2) Whether the bullet hit his vest or went directly into his stomach doesn't really make much difference, it would've hurt like hell either way, and it may have put Gliniewicz in just enough shock to allow the perpetrator to get the upper hand in the fight over the pistol. At a few inches away, I don't know if a bullet proof vest would stop a 40 caliber bullet or not, it would all depend on what kind of loads were in the gun such as hollow points, full metal jacket, exploding rounds, etc. Armor piercing rounds will go right through just about any vest, as will many high-powered rifle rounds. I doubt that kind of ammunition was at play here though.
3) I don't think the perp was on top of Gliniewicz during the struggle, I think he was pinned underneath him. The shot to the stomach is self explanatory since it could have happened just about anytime after the gun was snatched and the wrestling match began. After being shot in the stomach, imagine Gliniewicz basically doing a bear hug on this guy while lying on the ground, still trying to wrestle the gun out of his hand. The perp manages to get his hand free and reaches around behind Gliniewicz and simply makes a hap hazard shot into the back of his neck area. Also, Gliniewicz may have actually tried to throw his head out of the way once he saw the perp pointing the gun at him. That's why the shot to the lower part of the neck is sort of an odd spot to shoot someone. But if it occurred during a heated battle, it makes total sense. I suppose from the perps point of view you could even call it a "lucky shot".
After this struggle, the perp crawls out from underneath Gliniewicz and runs off, gun in hand.
Keep in mind, all of this probably happened in a matter of a few seconds, most likely between 10-20 seconds total, give or take. The commander said there was definitely a DNA transfer. What that says to me is that the perp and Gliniewicz most likely had some sort of physical contact with each other, more than likely a wrestling match on the ground.
They eliminated the EMT's, the ambulance drivers, the doctors, and the cops on the scene as being donors, yet they still have a DNA profile that doesn't match up to anybody. They asked for anybody that may have had contact with him, or may have touched him at the scene, to come forward. The absolute worst thing that could happen is if they DO match the DNA profile to one of the rescue personnel.
Then they have nothing, back to square one.
Welcome to the new sleuthers who know the area and thank you all for great informative posts.
steelman, going off your well considered post (and your inciting humor), could Lt. Joe have been ambushed, relieved of his weapon or not, been shot once at close range through his vest, fallen, then shot again to kill him? Then, as you suggest the gun may have been wiped?
If he was ambushed and it was planned, then the three could most likely have taken measures not to be seen coming and going?
For that matter, if the three men he saw would have been up to something that required them to kill an officer, couldn't they have taken the same measures anyway?
If anything, the spot is a good location to get away from unseen as there are so many choices, tracks, water, back roads to major roads, etc...
Could the hold up on evidence from his clothing, thus determining proximity of the shot, be that all the evidence, besides his corpse, was taken by the task force and not yet made available to local LE as such, including the ME, for the obvious investigative reasons in this case, as stated in MSM?
That being said, I don't think it was an ambush set up to assassinate him as it would be too convoluted a way to do it in a situation that would seem hard to control for the three perps, unless they knew the area extremely well for some reason. I do think he came upon something and the three may have over-powered him through the chase that ensued.
If he drove there to check them out, could he have spotted them from further away where he was driving before? Would LE have a way of knowing where exactly he was driving before the incident?
It has to be tough and corrosive for locals and especially his family, as the lack of information leaves so many avenues of conjecture open which is only a good thing if it helps catch the guys, it seems to me.
It is a pretty open view from Rollins Rd. into the cement plant. I've wondered if there was something going on, spotted from a drive-by on Rollins, then he drove around to the primary entrance on Sayton Rd. Entering from Sayton would be more straightforward than Rollins, as he would have had to go off road, over a bike path, through a gate, and over train track rails (not an improved crossing)....If he drove there to check them out, could he have spotted them from further away from where he was driving before? Would LE have a way of knowing where exactly he was driving before Lt. Joe mentioned them?
Here is the last radio transmission by Officer Gliniewicz:
https://www.facebook.com/abc7chicago/videos/10153686351536162/
I stopped the video at the 20 second mark, shows the open gate, iirc the guy that worked at precision chrome said his car was parked in front of the gate. As I suspected from looking at google maps, that place is thick with vegetation and it would not be hard to hide in that area.
I stopped the video at the 20 second mark, shows the open gate, iirc the guy that worked at precision chrome said his car was parked in front of the gate. As I suspected from looking at google maps, that place is thick with vegetation and it would not be hard to hide in that area.
Would someone tell me about bulletproof vests? Is this something small police stations issue, and you would wear everyday? I guess it surprised me to find out he was wearing one, and then I thought with the way things are with police officers being shot at, that is why he was wearing one. And maybe if the force doesn't give you one, you may buy one on your own? Would you put it on at home, or would you wait to get to the station to put it on? When the idea of suicide was first brought up, I had never thought of that, and I found it interesting, but probably not likely. Now, the thought of that is not as surprising, but would a person shoot themselves in the back of the neck, providing that info is correct? Would a person shoot themselves two times?
http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/ME Rudd said "devastating gunshot wound" but I can't find anywhere that he disclosed the location of the wound. So, who knows if it was in the neck or the head. Yesterday, a poster said that they had just heard the 5pm ABC7 news, and was unable to link it because it had just been said that the wound was to Gliniewicz' head. I can't find an ABC confirmation of that statement. I believe that the poster HEARD it, but I'm wondering if ABC did some quick editing or something....anyone know? JMO
I wonder if Lt. Gliniewicz had/used a locking/retention holster?
Another thought is if the three took off running and one was able to stop and conceal themselves and officer Gliniewicz ran past the one in pursuit of the two that he could see and then pulled his weapon and hollered to stop and the one that stopped and hid came out from behind and disarmed officer Gliniewicz and shot him. jmo idk