IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #1

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Has anyone read Stuart Wood's novel "Chiefs"? Small towns often harbor secrets,
 
We had a summer home near Antioch years ago and I know the area well and I believe this was a suicide. Having been on the receiving end

of a suicide note plus (3) to other family members, I don't think you can ever really tell who is ready to go that way.

As an officer who gave 30 years to the community, it may disturb some who came out to honor him, to find out this was suicide but by all accounts he was

a dedicated officer who served his people with compassion and those years are what was honored by the huge turnout.

Some insurance companies have clauses, that include payment on suicide, depending length of time policy is held. There is no

"usually" to any of this.
 
Montjoy said:
Was there ever any mention of the officer having defensive wounds? I cannot imagine an officer surrendering his sidearm without a desperate fight, and so I cannot imagine it being taken without the officer having defensive wounds of some sort.
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None that I have seen.
 
This case reminds me of Davina Buff Jones who also called in that she was investigating three people and then was found shot in the head. I believe her case was ruled a suicide but is now considered undetermined.

No no matter what happened to this officer it is a very sad story.
 
Itsmevkb said:
This case reminds me of Davina Buff Jones who also called in that she was investigating three people and then was found shot in the head. I believe her case was ruled a suicide but is now considered undetermined.

No no matter what happened to this officer it is a very sad story.
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I agree. No matter what happened, it is devastating. Cops have a very high suicide rate and if it does turn out to be one, it is still tragic. :rose:
 
steelman said:
I'll attempt to answer this, but as you know I don't have some insider knowledge as to what was at the scene, so this is all just speculation on my part.

1) I remember hearing that the gun obtained at the scene was his 40 caliber pistol. I don't know when I heard it or if I read it, but it stuck in my head because I've had firearms my entire life and I remember thinking to myself "holy crap, that's a big bullet to get shot with".

2) Whether the bullet hit his vest or went directly into his stomach doesn't really make much difference, it would've hurt like hell either way, and it may have put Gliniewicz in just enough shock to allow the perpetrator to get the upper hand in the fight over the pistol. At a few inches away, I don't know if a bullet proof vest would stop a 40 caliber bullet or not, it would all depend on what kind of loads were in the gun such as hollow points, full metal jacket, exploding rounds, etc. Armor piercing rounds will go right through just about any vest, as will many high-powered rifle rounds. I doubt that kind of ammunition was at play here though.

3) I don't think the perp was on top of Gliniewicz during the struggle, I think he was pinned underneath him. The shot to the stomach is self explanatory since it could have happened just about anytime after the gun was snatched and the wrestling match began. After being shot in the stomach, imagine Gliniewicz basically doing a bear hug on this guy while lying on the ground, still trying to wrestle the gun out of his hand. The perp manages to get his hand free and reaches around behind Gliniewicz and simply makes a hap hazard shot into the back of his neck area. Also, Gliniewicz may have actually tried to throw his head out of the way once he saw the perp pointing the gun at him. That's why the shot to the lower part of the neck is sort of an odd spot to shoot someone. But if it occurred during a heated battle, it makes total sense. I suppose from the perps point of view you could even call it a "lucky shot".

After this struggle, the perp crawls out from underneath Gliniewicz and runs off, gun in hand.

Keep in mind, all of this probably happened in a matter of a few seconds, most likely between 10-20 seconds total, give or take. The commander said there was definitely a DNA transfer. What that says to me is that the perp and Gliniewicz most likely had some sort of physical contact with each other, more than likely a wrestling match on the ground.

They eliminated the EMT's, the ambulance drivers, the doctors, and the cops on the scene as being donors, yet they still have a DNA profile that doesn't match up to anybody. They asked for anybody that may have had contact with him, or may have touched him at the scene, to come forward. The absolute worst thing that could happen is if they DO match the DNA profile to one of the rescue personnel.

Then they have nothing, back to square one.
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Welcome to the new sleuthers who know the area and thank you all for great informative posts.

steelman, going off your well considered post (and your inciting humor), could Lt. Joe have been ambushed, relieved of his weapon or not, been shot once at close range through his vest, fallen, then shot again to kill him? Then, as you suggest the gun may have been wiped?

If he was ambushed and it was planned, then the three could most likely have taken measures not to be seen coming and going?

For that matter, if the three men he saw would have been up to something that required them to kill an officer, couldn't they have taken the same measures anyway?

If anything, the spot is a good location to get away from unseen as there are so many choices, tracks, water, back roads to major roads, etc...

Could the hold up on evidence from his clothing, thus determining proximity of the shot, be that all the evidence, besides his corpse, was taken by the task force and not yet made available to local LE as such, including the ME, for the obvious investigative reasons in this case, as stated in MSM?

That being said, I don't think it was an ambush set up to assassinate him as it would be too convoluted a way to do it in a situation that would seem hard to control for the three perps, unless they knew the area extremely well for some reason. I do think he came upon something and the three may have over-powered him through the chase that ensued.

If he drove there to check them out, could he have spotted them from further away from where he was driving before? Would LE have a way of knowing where exactly he was driving before Lt. Joe mentioned them?

It has to be tough and corrosive for locals and especially for the effect it may have on his family, to know so little. The lack of information leaves so many avenues of conjecture open which is only a good thing if it helps catch the guys, it seems to me.
 
FindHG said:
Welcome to the new sleuthers who know the area and thank you all for great informative posts.

steelman, going off your well considered post (and your inciting humor), could Lt. Joe have been ambushed, relieved of his weapon or not, been shot once at close range through his vest, fallen, then shot again to kill him? Then, as you suggest the gun may have been wiped?

If he was ambushed and it was planned, then the three could most likely have taken measures not to be seen coming and going?

For that matter, if the three men he saw would have been up to something that required them to kill an officer, couldn't they have taken the same measures anyway?

If anything, the spot is a good location to get away from unseen as there are so many choices, tracks, water, back roads to major roads, etc...

Could the hold up on evidence from his clothing, thus determining proximity of the shot, be that all the evidence, besides his corpse, was taken by the task force and not yet made available to local LE as such, including the ME, for the obvious investigative reasons in this case, as stated in MSM?

That being said, I don't think it was an ambush set up to assassinate him as it would be too convoluted a way to do it in a situation that would seem hard to control for the three perps, unless they knew the area extremely well for some reason. I do think he came upon something and the three may have over-powered him through the chase that ensued.

If he drove there to check them out, could he have spotted them from further away where he was driving before? Would LE have a way of knowing where exactly he was driving before the incident?

It has to be tough and corrosive for locals and especially his family, as the lack of information leaves so many avenues of conjecture open which is only a good thing if it helps catch the guys, it seems to me.
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Morning HG---those are all good questions, unfortunately most of the answers are unknown by anybody following this case.

What I do know is that the clowns that are running this circus are either still putting on their makeup or they're busy washing down the elephants, because they're nowhere to be found.

I've heard just about every theory imaginable in the last 72 hours. The one theory I haven't heard yet is that the officers who rushed to the scene after his call came in are actually the ones that shot him. Yeah, there were three unknown perps alright, but it was his own teammates that did him in.

I expect that theory to come to life sometime today, since it is one of the few that hasn't been exploited yet. The news media will banter it around for 24 hours or so, and then grow bored with it, and move on to another theory.

The major problem here is that there appears to be no protocol being followed.....by anyone. I don't think all the agencies are necessarily to blame either. For instance, the FBI is standing by to do testing on the evidence....great....but the evidence isn't being submitted for testing, and if it is, the test results disappear into a black hole. The ballistics testing, which would help clear up many of these theories and rumors.......black hole. Clear evidence that there were three unidentified perps at the scene....black hole.
The ME can't issue a manner of death because everything he needs in order to determine that is.....in the black hole. Gunshot residue tests....black hole.

It's hard to tell if this is simply the sloppiest investigation in recent memory, or if it is all being done by design. Trying to get information out of Filenko is like trying to pull teeth from a chicken. He won't divulge anything until it is already out on the street, and then the question becomes, why couldn't you have just said that yesterday.....or the day before ? What difference would it have made ? It's that kind of unnecessary stonewalling that is infuriating the masses.

The only new information coming to light now appears to be through leaks in the LE community. One has to wonder about the validity of that information as well, since it may hinge around rumors inside their own inner circle, and may be based on nothing more than that. The news media doesn't seem to be concerned if it is valid or not, they simply pick up the latest tidbit and publish it as fact. Which of course, completely contradicts what they published yesterday and the day before that.

The public wants answers.....the news media is trying to get them....... the people in charge are resisting. Why all the resistance ? Did this incident happen the way it was initially reported or not?
 
I wonder if Lt. Gliniewicz had/used a locking/retention holster?

Another thought is if the three took off running and one was able to stop and conceal themselves and officer Gliniewicz ran past the one in pursuit of the two that he could see and then pulled his weapon and hollered to stop and the one that stopped and hid came out from behind and disarmed officer Gliniewicz and shot him. jmo idk
 
FindHG said:
If he drove there to check them out, could he have spotted them from further away from where he was driving before? Would LE have a way of knowing where exactly he was driving before Lt. Joe mentioned them?
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It is a pretty open view from Rollins Rd. into the cement plant. I've wondered if there was something going on, spotted from a drive-by on Rollins, then he drove around to the primary entrance on Sayton Rd. Entering from Sayton would be more straightforward than Rollins, as he would have had to go off road, over a bike path, through a gate, and over train track rails (not an improved crossing)....

View.jpg
 
Would someone tell me about bulletproof vests? Is this something small police stations issue, and you would wear everyday? I guess it surprised me to find out he was wearing one, and then I thought with the way things are with police officers being shot at, that is why he was wearing one. And maybe if the force doesn't give you one, you may buy one on your own? Would you put it on at home, or would you wait to get to the station to put it on? When the idea of suicide was first brought up, I had never thought of that, and I found it interesting, but probably not likely. Now, the thought of that is not as surprising, but would a person shoot themselves in the back of the neck, providing that info is correct? Would a person shoot themselves two times?
 
Elley Mae said:
I stopped the video at the 20 second mark, shows the open gate, iirc the guy that worked at precision chrome said his car was parked in front of the gate. As I suspected from looking at google maps, that place is thick with vegetation and it would not be hard to hide in that area.
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And the deer trails would make it easy to get out of there fast without being seen IMO.
 
Elley Mae said:
I stopped the video at the 20 second mark, shows the open gate, iirc the guy that worked at precision chrome said his car was parked in front of the gate. As I suspected from looking at google maps, that place is thick with vegetation and it would not be hard to hide in that area.
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You make great sense, as do other WSers. Lt. Joe may have seen them from Rollin then driven around to where his car was found.

If that is the case, (speculation follows) then he may have stopped his vehicle where he would have been out of sight of them, as he checked things out. Maybe he had only seen three people of a bigger group, when he talked to dispatch. As he approached them some took off, others got separated and in the chase some of them were able to get the drop on him.

I hope LE has a chance to check out cell activity in that area from that morning. FTR, I don't suspect corrupt cops in this situation as it is way too messy. Usually trying to stem discovery, corrupt officials deal with it by trying to push attention away, not draw more onto themselves, so this would not have been any kind of smart planned strategy. I agree with steelman, about LE's public outreach leaving too much room for conjecture and wonder why the ME would be pushing for more information from the investigation? Is that typical of ME's?

It seems at least some of the people involved were very familiar with this locale, most likely. So, not knowing who it is could be a function of weeding out who is lying, based on the slowly gathered and assessed evidence.

It could be that the point of doing whatever they were doing there is that it doesn't have connections to any of the perps. As such, the whole drop off and pick spot makes sense to me. If it was drugs or guns, the contraband involved would have been the area the perps would want to get Lt. Joe away from in a chase, possibly. So, the perps may have taken took off in a direction other than the swamp with any contraband.


https://www.facebook.com/abc7chicago/videos/10153686351536162/

Screenshot 2015-09-10 at 10.47.42 AM.jpg
 
leah said:
Would someone tell me about bulletproof vests? Is this something small police stations issue, and you would wear everyday? I guess it surprised me to find out he was wearing one, and then I thought with the way things are with police officers being shot at, that is why he was wearing one. And maybe if the force doesn't give you one, you may buy one on your own? Would you put it on at home, or would you wait to get to the station to put it on? When the idea of suicide was first brought up, I had never thought of that, and I found it interesting, but probably not likely. Now, the thought of that is not as surprising, but would a person shoot themselves in the back of the neck, providing that info is correct? Would a person shoot themselves two times?
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ME Rudd said "devastating gunshot wound" but I can't find anywhere that he disclosed the location of the wound. So, who knows if it was in the neck or the head. Yesterday, a poster said that they had just heard the 5pm ABC7 news, and was unable to link it because it had just been said that the wound was to Gliniewicz' head. I can't find an ABC confirmation of that statement. I believe that the poster HEARD it, but I'm wondering if ABC did some quick editing or something....anyone know? JMO
 
cady said:
ME Rudd said "devastating gunshot wound" but I can't find anywhere that he disclosed the location of the wound. So, who knows if it was in the neck or the head. Yesterday, a poster said that they had just heard the 5pm ABC7 news, and was unable to link it because it had just been said that the wound was to Gliniewicz' head. I can't find an ABC confirmation of that statement. I believe that the poster HEARD it, but I'm wondering if ABC did some quick editing or something....anyone know? JMO
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http://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...me-3-suspects-in-fox-lake-cop-killing/974805/
 
Elley Mae said:
I wonder if Lt. Gliniewicz had/used a locking/retention holster?

Another thought is if the three took off running and one was able to stop and conceal themselves and officer Gliniewicz ran past the one in pursuit of the two that he could see and then pulled his weapon and hollered to stop and the one that stopped and hid came out from behind and disarmed officer Gliniewicz and shot him. jmo idk
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That's probably the most likely scenario. It's also possible that ALL of them stopped, and as he was about to gather their I.D.'s and begin to question them, he was jumped by all three and wrestled to the ground.

I've been waiting for a week now to hear about additional shoeprints at the scene that would verify the presence of these three men............... still waiting. :waiting: :waiting: :waiting:

I guess it's possible that the scene was trampled so bad during the manhunt, that nobody thought to isolate which footprints were there and visible when his backup arrived. The way this case has gone, it wouldn't surprise me. They may not have any shoeprints to work with. That area was flooded with a 100 officers and EMT personnel shortly after his body was found. Any shoeprints on Honing road were probably also obliterated during all the chaos.
 
OK. I think that it may have been a report of recent police shootings, and Gliniewicz was mentioned either before or after the Texas deputy was said to have died of a gunshot to his head. So, there is still NO confirmation of the location of the wound that caused the death of Gliniewicz, whew. That was driving me nuts! JMO
 
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