IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #6

[TheDuchess]

I've now been on these boards long enough (and am personally familiar with some suicide victims) to observe that people make all sorts of "normal" transactions shortly before killing themselves. Things like buying perishables they'll never have time to eat/refrigerate, taking out cash from a cash machine, filling up a tank with gas, etc. I'm not a psychiatrist but I think in a lot of cases it's a way to lessen the anxiety around what they're preparing to do by making them feel as though there's always a chance they may not decide to go through with it. Suicide being a serious option for them while not putting all their eggs in one basket until the moment they work up enough courage/despair/resolve/grief/(&#8230 to pull the trigger, swallow the pills, make the leap, tighten the noose etc.

While I do agree there are always exceptions to the rule, most people who commit suicide do not exhibit this type of behavior. Many who commit suicide do other things - i.e. give away things, seem unusually at peace, etc.... IMO, making plans more often than points to no suicide over suicide in the majority of cases. Making a hair appointment, ordering something online, signing up for classes, purchasing groceries, etc...

 

[Chuz Life]

One thing that stood out to me from the article is the new fact (at least I had not heard it before) that he purchased 2 packs of cigarettes that morning. Who buys 2 packs of cigarettes before killing themselves? I am sure it can be argued that he did this "on purpose" or that he really only made the decision after 20 minutes of walking around the scene. But to me, that purchase simply doesn't fit.

It fits with someone who was going to stage their suicide to make it appear as though they were ambushed and killed in the line of duty. However, we do not know what the LT's actual thoughts (or plan) was that morning. Like you said, he may have made that decision in the 20 minutes or less - just prior to reporting in to dispatch.

I like Marble's explanation too. I've also noticed things in other suicide cases that on their own do not seem like something a person intending suicide would do.

 

[bluesneakers]

One thing that stood out to me from the article is the new fact (at least I had not heard it before) that he purchased 2 packs of cigarettes that morning. Who buys 2 packs of cigarettes before killing themselves? I am sure it can be argued that he did this "on purpose" or that he really only made the decision after 20 minutes of walking around the scene. But to me, that purchase simply doesn't fit.

People who are suicidal don't always behave the way people who are not suicidal think they should, or thinking they would if it were them. Before Jennifer Huston committed suicide she filled up her gas tank and bought a protein bar, and before her body was found people were convinced her actions meant she wasn't suicidal and something else had happened to her. I don't think it's possible to take non-suicidal rational thought and apply it to suicide brain.

JMO.

eta: There was another case recently (last month or two) where a man filled up his gas tank and people thought the same thing. I can't remember his name but I think it was in New York.

 

[bluesneakers]

While I do agree there are always exceptions to the rule, most people who commit suicide do not exhibit this type of behavior. Many who commit suicide do other things - i.e. give away things, seem unusually at peace, etc.... IMO, making plans more often than points to no suicide over suicide in the majority of cases. Making a hair appointment, ordering something online, signing up for classes, purchasing groceries, etc...

What it's spontaneous and unplanned?

 

[vestigare]

One thing that stood out to me from the article is the new fact (at least I had not heard it before) that he purchased 2 packs of cigarettes that morning. Who buys 2 packs of cigarettes before killing themselves? I am sure it can be argued that he did this "on purpose" or that he really only made the decision after 20 minutes of walking around the scene. But to me, that purchase simply doesn't fit.

I have often wondered if some of the evidence isn't a bunch of cigarette butts along the trail where he wandered around for 20 minutes before deciding to kill himself.
It isn't odd to me that Smokers, who are nervous smokers, would smoke right up until the moment they kill themselves. Especially if they are thinking things over and figuring out details.

 

[bluesneakers]

I have often wondered if some of the evidence isn't a bunch of cigarette butts along the trail where he wandered around for 20 minutes before deciding to kill himself.
It isn't odd to me that Smokers, who are nervous smokers, would smoke right up until the moment they kill themselves. Especially if they are thinking things over and figuring out details.

They would all be the same brand though. Wouldn't they figure that out fairly quickly? Or would it be enough to have them there so they'd have to investigate?

 

[Cubby]

One thing that stood out to me from the article is the new fact (at least I had not heard it before) that he purchased 2 packs of cigarettes that morning. Who buys 2 packs of cigarettes before killing themselves? I am sure it can be argued that he did this "on purpose" or that he really only made the decision after 20 minutes of walking around the scene. But to me, that purchase simply doesn't fit.

I

If he preplanned staging his suicide, which I think he did due to his expressing his concerns about what would happen to the Explorers after he was gone, then he would puposely make his day appear as normal as possible.

I've read in numerous places that those who lost loved ones to suicide often comment on how happy the person appeared in the weeks or months prior to committing suicide. It's believed the contentment after making the decision causes the person to be happier.

His buying two packs of cigarettes means nothing. As a former heavy smoker, I know most places sell cigarettes with a two pack special.

 

[vestigare]

They would all be the same brand though. Wouldn't they figure that out fairly quickly? Or would it be enough to have them there so they'd have to investigate?

Well we don't even know if they have cigarette butts in evidence.
But if they did then usually they can pretty easily figure out brand and then there would most likely be DNA of some sort on some of them. Especially if he just smoked them.

Maybe that is what some of the mysterious DNA is. Maybe they picked up a bunch of butts and some didn't match Joe.

 

[vestigare]

I

If he preplanned staging his suicide, which I think he did due to his expressing his concerns about what would happen to the Explorers after he was gone, then he would puposely make his day appear as normal as possible.

I've read in numerous places that those who lost loved ones to suicide often comment on how happy the person appeared in the weeks or months prior to committing suicide. It's believed the contentment after making the decision causes the person to be happier.

His buying two packs of cigarettes means nothing. As a former heavy smoker, I know most places sell cigarettes with a two pack special.

I am not even a smoker and I can see a smoker doing it out of well...-habit and addiction.
Also maybe he had given up smoking previously and he thought 'Hey if I am going to kill myself I might as well enjoy some cigs before I go.'

 

[Cubby]

I have often wondered if some of the evidence isn't a bunch of cigarette butts along the trail where he wandered around for 20 minutes before deciding to kill himself.
It isn't odd to me that Smokers, who are nervous smokers, would smoke right up until the moment they kill themselves. Especially if they are thinking things over and figuring out details.

I wondered the same. I know when I was smoking and stressed I could go through two packs a day easily. It would be interesting to know how many fresh cigarette butts were found at the scene.

 

[vestigare]

I wondered the same. I know when I was smoking and stressed I could go through two packs a day easily. It would be interesting to know how many fresh cigarette butts were found at the scene.

Me too.

I posted a pic some time ago of him in his cruiser with two packs of marlboros in the visor. Maybe he always had them and that morning he was just running on auto pilot.

 

[bluesneakers]

I

If he preplanned staging his suicide, which I think he did due to his expressing his concerns about what would happen to the Explorers after he was gone, then he would puposely make his day appear as normal as possible.

I've read in numerous places that those who lost loved ones to suicide often comment on how happy the person appeared in the weeks or months prior to committing suicide. It's believed the contentment after making the decision causes the person to be happier.

His buying two packs of cigarettes means nothing. As a former heavy smoker, I know most places sell cigarettes with a two pack special.

I wondered about that. If he only needed two or three cigarettes to get him through he'd still have to buy two packs.

 

[Cubby]

ot, Am now reading and posting from a 3ds. Please excuse any spelling or other errors. I don't think I can add links from the ds.

 

[cady]

I wondered the same. I know when I was smoking and stressed I could go through two packs a day easily. It would be interesting to know how many fresh cigarette butts were found at the scene.

As a (leper) smoker...I can tell you that twenty minutes means no more than 3, lol. Not so LOL...my sister is coming here to die of lung cancer tomorrow.... I'm terrified, and chain smoking. JMO

 

[cady]

Maybe.....here we go....they did not know that he was walking around for twenty minutes via GPS, but found cig butts in different spots that were Marlboros so knew via DNA that he had been on foot, scoping the scene out. If so, what an oversight, on his part, for staging. ALL SPECULATION...do not shoot the opiner. JMO....or, have at it.

 

[bluesneakers]

Maybe.....here we go....they did not know that he was walking around for twenty minutes via GPS, but found cig butts in different spots that were Marlboros so knew via DNA that he had been on foot, scoping the scene out. If so, what an oversight, on his part, for staging. ALL SPECULATION...do not shoot the opiner. JMO....or, have at it.

What difference would it make though? The only thing I can think is if he dropped cigarette butts everywhere they would have to test ALL the butts they found. However even there had been only four or five they would still test them, wouldn't they? So yeah, I'm with you on what an oversight.

JMO.

 

[cady]

What difference would it make though? The only thing I can think is if he dropped cigarette butts everywhere they would have to test ALL the butts they found. However even there had been only four or five they would still test them, wouldn't they? So yeah, I'm with you on what an oversight.

JMO.

Yeah...Iguess it really wouldn't be that evidentiary, since he was supposedly patrolling the place, but if they found other DNA butts in the same area as his, that would look like he was not alone........but not evidence of a struggle....JMo

 

[bluesneakers]

Yeah...Iguess it really wouldn't be that evidentiary, since he was supposedly patrolling the place, but if they found other DNA butts in the same area as his, that would look like he was not alone........but not evidence of a struggle....JMo

Not evidence of a struggle, but you're right it would make it look like he wasn't alone. Who knows what they find gathering the DNA evidence. Maybe some bad people do hang out there. JMO.

 

[Cubby]

As a (leper) smoker...I can tell you that twenty minutes means no more than 3, lol. Not so LOL...my sister is coming here to die of lung cancer tomorrow.... I'm terrified, and chain smoking. JMO

Wait, what? Is your sister really ill? I lost a family member to lung cancer a little over a year ago. It's tough. Cigarettes are hard as heck to quit. Hugs for you and your sis.

 

[Walker007]

Walker....would the family prevail in a worker comp case even if the stress was due to his own activity on the job? JMO

Illinois is a "no fault" state. So, it won't matter but it will likely be litigated if there is merit to do so on that issue. Will be litigated either way. Arbitrators make the awards in the great state of Illinois. We won't know until they release circumstances. He could have "accidentally" shot himself and it still won't matter.