GUILTY IL - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, in suitcase in Bali, 12 Aug 2014 *fnd guilty in Bali* #6

[otto]

It appears that citizenship by birth is a thing in Indonesia: Indonesian nationality law - Wikipedia

But the government stated a child cannot remain there without their parent. So unless she is adopted by her foster parents, I don’t see how the child can go back without HM.

I wonder whether Heather applied for Indonesian citizenship for her daughter, and whether that option is extended to children where the only reason they are born in Indonesia is because their parents are criminals.

 

[otto]

Mack seemed to believe that she could return to LA and live a normal life. It's almost as though she expects people to forget the years of abuse she inflicted on her mother, the anger she felt about money, the planning involved in the murder, and the extreme violence of the murder.

"After spending seven years in an Indonesian prison for allegedly helping her boyfriend kill her mother and stuff the body in a suitcase, all Heather Mack wanted to do when she returned to the United States with her 6-year-old daughter, Stella, was enjoy the banalities of normal life.

“Little things like going to the grocery store, the park, and the swimming pool with Stella will be wonderful,” Mack told the New York Post. “Even paying an electricity bill will be nice.”
...

Mack and her mother had a contentious relationship, with police visiting their home 86 times between 2004 to 2013, according to the Tribune.
...

Tensions mounted in 2014 when an 18-year-old Mack started dating Tommy E. Schaefer, a then-21-year-old unemployed aspiring rapper. Mack began skipping school and running away with her mother’s credit card to book pricey hotel rooms for her and her boyfriend, the Tribune reported. One argument between the two that became physical left von Wiese-Mack with a broken arm.
...

But about a week after the two arrived, Mack stole her mother’s credit card and bought a high-priced ticket for Schaefer to join her in Bali, according to the indictment."
​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/04/heather-mack-arrest-mother-suitcase/

​

 

[gitana1]

What I am not seeing is mention of TS's parental rights. IIRC, because he and HM weren't married, he had no rights in Indonesia - and no way to enforce US rules in a foreign country.

Stella is back in the US now. TS has legal parental rights in this country and they can be enforced (in this country).

HM might think she can call the shots, that Stella's fate is 100% up to her. That was true in Bali; it is not true here in the US. If, for example, HM decided to allow OS to adopt Stella, I believe she would have to have TS's OK.

I think Stella could go back to Indonesia with OS if both HM and TS agreed and OS was made Stella's legal guardian. TS might be OK with that if he were promised regular visits. That would probably be best for Stella.

All HM is interested in doing is using Stella as a shield and a cash cow - a shield from legal actions and a resource to be exploited by herself and whoever else she can find willing to help her launder Stella's inheritance for HM's gain.

Kia Walker is going to have a hard time getting custody. If she hasn't got the resources to help TS financially (he supposedly hasn't had a phone for three years because he can't afford it), then how does she expect to raise Stella?

That’s right. He has parental rights in the US.

Kia would possibly be eligible for family foster care funds.

 

[Niner]

@JerseyGirl - don't know if you want to continue this thread (close this one) & rename another one for Illinois - since her case will now be heard there?

 

[otto]

I don't understand why Heather Mack is described as an accomplice rather than the master mind of the murder. Heather offered money to kill her mother in Chicago, she planned the murder in Chicago, she used her other's credit card to pay $12,000 to fly Tommy to Bali for the purpose of murdering her mother, she opened the hotel room door to allow Tommy to enter the hotel room to murder her mother, she and Tommy together stuffed her mother into a suitcase.

Perhaps the Bali courts view females as helpers rather than masterminds, but she needs to be portrayed as the monster she is rather than the vulnerable mother of a child.

 

[Marysmith]

I don't understand why Heather Mack is described as an accomplice rather than the master mind of the murder. Heather offered money to kill her mother in Chicago, she planned the murder in Chicago, she used her other's credit card to pay $12,000 to fly Tommy to Bali for the purpose of murdering her mother, she opened the hotel room door to allow Tommy to enter the hotel room to murder her mother, she and Tommy together stuffed her mother into a suitcase.

Perhaps the Bali courts view females as helpers rather than masterminds, but she needs to be portrayed as the monster she is rather than the vulnerable mother of a child.

Totally agree. The accomplice was Bibbs IMO. For sure, again IMO, HM was the mastermind of this murder and if not for her it wouldn’t have occurred.

 

[otto]

Friend of Sheila von Weise-Mack believes Sheila would want Stella to be permanently removed from everyone associated with the murder.

“I’ve known Sheila since 1983, when I came to Chicago from California for a job. And I’ve known Sheila ever since until the day she passed away,” Jacobson said. “I even spoke to her before she boarded the flight to Bali.”
...

"I think Sheila would have wanted the granddaughter to be completely extracted by the authorities from this entire environment, and all the people who are participants in this environment,” Jacobson said.

Jacobson proposes placing Stella in a program similar to witness protection, “where she would be given a new identity.”

“A two-parent family capable of raising her,” Jacobson said would be “giving her an opportunity to have a normal life, which she has decidedly not had from the minute she was born.”

A custody battle is now brewing."
​

Friend of 'suitcase murder' victim discusses Heather Mack arrest - News Concerns

 

[Kamille]

So Vanessa Favia is the “family attorney”? Who retained her and when?

When HM was first arrested, she contacted a young Chicago lawyer named Michael Elkin that I believe she had met at a party. He was retained and flew to Bali, bringing VF with him to represent the unborn child. The two of them handled things for HM and I believe helped hook her up with an attorney in Bali. They also represented HM in the Cook County probate court for a while until ME eventually bowed out and VF seemed to continue to attend the hearings on HM’s behalf until the final agreement that moved the rest of the estate into a trust for Stella.

HM has always had funds and a cell phone while in prison so she’s always been able to stay in touch with all the lawyers that have worked for her over the years.

MOO

 

[ajaylee]

Totally agree. The accomplice was Bibbs IMO. For sure, again IMO, HM was the mastermind of this murder and if not for her it wouldn’t have occurred.

HM solicited the 'hit' and offered to pay for it. She did pony up $12K of her mother's money to fly TS to Indonesia to do the deed.

I think that in some jurisdictions in the US, that would make her just as guilty as TS of murder.

 

[Kamille]

I wonder whether Heather applied for Indonesian citizenship for her daughter, and whether that option is extended to children where the only reason they are born in Indonesia is because their parents are criminals.

We discussed the citizenship situation with Stella quite a bit near the beginning of all this. I believe that we learned she did not qualify for Indonesian citizenship because she had living parents, neither of them were Indonesian citizens and both of them had citizenship somewhere else. Therefore, her passport is the same as her parents and she is considered a US citizen.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

HM solicited the 'hit' and offered to pay for it. She did pony up $12K of her mother's money to fly TS to Indonesia to do the deed.

I think that in some jurisdictions in the US, that would make her just as guilty as TS of murder.

Yes, she was originally shopping around the “hit” in Chicago for $50,000 if I recall correctly. I can’t remember if it was RB who was originally offered this amount and he refused.

ETA: Yes it was mentioned to RB. Here’s an article describing his involvement.

Chicago Woman Recently Released from Bali Prison After Killing Mother, Stuffing Body in Suitcase Was Arrested Upon Her Return to U.S.

 

[Kamille]

Friend of Sheila von Weise-Mack believes Sheila would want Stella to be permanently removed from everyone associated with the murder.

“I’ve known Sheila since 1983, when I came to Chicago from California for a job. And I’ve known Sheila ever since until the day she passed away,” Jacobson said. “I even spoke to her before she boarded the flight to Bali.”
...

"I think Sheila would have wanted the granddaughter to be completely extracted by the authorities from this entire environment, and all the people who are participants in this environment,” Jacobson said.

Jacobson proposes placing Stella in a program similar to witness protection, “where she would be given a new identity.”

“A two-parent family capable of raising her,” Jacobson said would be “giving her an opportunity to have a normal life, which she has decidedly not had from the minute she was born.”

A custody battle is now brewing."
​

Friend of 'suitcase murder' victim discusses Heather Mack arrest - News Concerns

This is what should have happened for Stella as soon as she was born. Since she was registered as a US citizen, she should have been removed from HM’s custody and sent back to the US to be adopted and raised by a completely anonymous family with no one having access to the trust and having it turned over to her when she is 30.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

“In June 2017, one month before the sealed indictment against Mack and Schaefer was filed, Schaefer’s cousin was sentenced to nine yearsin prison after pleading guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit the murder of Wiese-Mack. A then-26-year-old Robert Ryan Justin Bibbs admitted that Mack had offered him $50,000 to kill her mother.

“In approximately late July or early August 2014, Mack told Bibbs that she wished her mother was dead and she asked Bibbs whether he knew someone who would kill her mother in exchange for money,” the Justice Department said in a 2017 press release. “Bibbs knew that Von Wiese was wealthy and that she and Mack were taking a vacation in Indonesia in early August 2014. Schaefer had conveyed to Bibbs that Mack was planning to kill her mother while they were overseas and that Schaefer intended to travel to Indonesia to join Mack.”

Text messages between Schaefer and Bibbs allegedly showed Bibbs knew Von Wiese’s murder was “imminent” and that Schaefer “expected to receive millions,” some of which would go to Bibbs.

Per Bibbs’ plea agreement, he provided Schaefer with advice on “alternate ways to kill Von Wiese” and “encouraged his cousin to kill Von Wiese” a short time before he bludgeoned her to death.”

Chicago Woman Recently Released from Bali Prison After Killing Mother, Stuffing Body in Suitcase Was Arrested Upon Her Return to U.S.

 

[otto]

From what I can find from old articles, it looks like Mack and Schaefer were charged with premeditated murder in Bali. I can't find any Bali charges related to conspiracy to commit murder while in the USA.

Why is the LA lawyer making so much noise about double jeopardy when Mack is facing new charges related to actions in Chicago?

"The charge of premeditated murder carries a maximum penalty of death. But the court said it decided to be lenient toward Mack, of Chicago, because she gave birth to the couple’s daughter, Stella, last month.

As for Schaefer, presiding Judge Made Suweda described his crime as “sadistic” but said the defendant’s politeness and expression of remorse during the trial warranted that the Oak Park resident be spared a harsher sentence."
​

APRIL 21, 2015
Victim's family disappointed by sentences for Mack, boyfriend in Bali killing

 

[otto]

This article states that although she was charged with premeditated murder, she was found guilty of "helping with the killing." Despite evidence that she conspired to murder her mother prior to flying to Bali, and arranging for Schaefer to fly to Bali to murder her mother, the Bali courts set all that aside and believed her statements that Schaefer was responsible for the murder.

"Heather Mack’s boyfriend, 21-year-old Tommy Schaefer, was found guilty of battering von Wiese-Mack to death and was sentenced to 18 years in prison. Mack was sentenced to 10 years in prison, convicted of helping with the killing."
​

Heather Mack Details ‘Complicated' Relationship With Mother: Report

 

[Kamille]

This article states that although she was charged with premeditated murder, she was found guilty of "helping with the killing." Despite evidence that she conspired to murder her mother prior to flying to Bali, and arranging for Schaefer to fly to Bali to murder her mother, the Bali courts set all that aside and believed her statements that Schaefer was responsible for the murder.

"Heather Mack’s boyfriend, 21-year-old Tommy Schaefer, was found guilty of battering von Wiese-Mack to death and was sentenced to 18 years in prison. Mack was sentenced to 10 years in prison, convicted of helping with the killing."
​

Heather Mack Details ‘Complicated' Relationship With Mother: Report

Yes, that $150,000 sent to the shady lawyer that HM learned about from other inmates and subsequently hired herself, caused a lot of evidence to be ignored and charges to be reduced.

MOO

 

[ficus]

Criminal complaint against co-conspirator Bibbs with potential evidence against Heather under the US charges:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/file/777641/download

Link to 2017 Chicago indictment that doesn't require wading through news sites/paywalls:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1446126/download

I wonder if the FBI ever managed to unlock Heather's phone, since that was an issue at the time of the 2017 indictment.

 

[JerseyGirl]

@JerseyGirl - don't know if you want to continue this thread (close this one) & rename another one for Illinois - since her case will now be heard there?

I will change the title to this thread and move it to Currently Waiting Trial. If I’m wrong, let me know. Thanks.

 

[mickey2942]

That’s right. He has parental rights in the US.

Kia would possibly be eligible for family foster care funds.

There is a lot more money than that.

 

[Kamille]

At least KW has been able to Skype with her granddaughter. There’s a hearing for her emergency guardian request next week.

Kia Walker wants custody of granddaughter after Heather Mack arrested again in mother's murder