Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[CurtMarcucci]

Respectfully snipped by me to address just this part of your post....

These are my opinions about the reasons it took so long to find the girls:

1. Darkness (they were only found to be missing after 3 pm and then the families searched on their own almost until darkness fell a couple of hours later) coupled with terrain (I think LE were worried that a searcher could potentially be injured while looking in the dark). Normally safety of the professional searchers could maybe be compromised to save victims in immediate danger, but there also was....

2. The belief by LE that the girls had gone missing voluntarily and were no longer in the trails area, but had gone off with friends. This influenced how and where LE searched. This belief came about due to small town interactions of LE where previous missing kids had all been located relatively quickly and had all been voluntarily missing. This working theory of LE's was not really questioned until around 2:30 am when pings from Libby's phone showed that it was likely the phone was still in the trails area. So until that point, the search was not actually solely focused on the trails and surrounding property, but rather searchers were deployed throughout the town of Delphi. Mike Patty describes driving through town and searching at the high school, etc.

3. Because the secondary theory after "voluntarily missing" was "the girls got lost walking home or had an accident that swept them downstream," the search was focused from the High Bridge downstream towards Delphi. Becky Patty talked about searching with a group in farm fields nearby, thinking the girls took a shortcut home and got disoriented. Mike Patty talked about getting in a canoe with a deputy and paddling downstream looking for them. People walked the banks of the creek in the direction of Delphi. But the girls were eventually found upstream, not downstream, where they had been forced to go. But this was not really considered as a possibility because everyone believed they were looking for lost or possibly hurt girls, not murdered or concealed bodies.

My sources for this info are the Down the Hill podcast, episodes 1 and 2, interviews with family and searchers.

Regarding #1, you are correct. The terrain out there is VERY steep. Searching at night, even with a flashlight, would be dangerous

 

[ACG2x]

Hiding in plain sight could have been very thrilling to him.

100%. Such is the case for many killers and psychopaths. They get a high of sorts from feeling mentally superior to everyone else. Carter even said in the 2019 'new direction' press conference "We know this is about power to you".

Psychopaths like to feel like the smartest people in the room and murdering two girls then walking amongst the same people trying to solve that crime and going about your everyday life would certainly give one that feeling.

 

[Elley Mae]

When he got back to Indiana, he deleted several apps from his phones and put one of them in a microwave. Police were able to recover a great deal of information from his phones and other electronic devices.

Central figure linked to the Delphi murders, Kegan Kline, in court Thursday

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — For the first time, a central figure linked to the Delphi murder investigation will be heard. Kegan Kline is due in court Thursday morning. Kline faces 30 child *advertiser censored* related charges. He used a fake social media profile to solicit pictures from at least 15 underage girls. He...

www.wishtv.com

…

I have one phone.
Is it normal to have multiple phones.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

Nice to get some perspective from someone who has actually been there and traveled the piece.

The problem with many of the news segments and documentaries that are out there involving this case is that they were shot in warmer weather when leaves and grass have grown. They do not give you a sense of what it would have been like out there in the middle of February. That is exactly why my first visit was in early March. It gives a whole new perspective on what could have been seen and what could have happened.

 

[Elley Mae]

Could be RA’s phone/s and computer gave them evidence.

 

[ACG2x]

Sheriff TL did confirm DNA and fingerprints were found at the scene in HLN's Down The Hill Special.

Also, in the Murder Sheets PC doc against RL it said there were no defensive wounds found on the girls. Could RA have zip tied their hands? How did he keep them quiet, perhaps he duck taped their mouths? Both are sources for DNA and fingerprints.

Just spit ballin' here, because I have no doubt that LE has some damning physical evidence that ties RA to Abby and Libby.

MOO

They absolutely have to IMO. I watched Carter's interview post-press conference with HLN and I have never seen him so seemingly at peace - like a huge weight has been lifted off his shoulders. Obviously he knows it's not over yet, but in past interviews and press conferences, the poor guy has seemed like he's carrying the whole world on his back.

I even saw him slightly smile in that interview as well, which told me that LE is not only very confident they have their man but they also have hard evidence to prove it in court. Carter strikes me as a very intense guy and God forbid I should ever need LE investigators but if I do, I'd want him on my team because the man is a pitbull who has made it his life mission to bring the killer of A&L to justice. However, in the HLN follow-up interview, he looked so relieved.

When this is all over and - assuming RA is the guy - RA is rotting in a jail cell, I hope Carter and all those who spent countless hours on this case away from their families take a well-deserved vacation. God bless all of them.

 

[Jealoushe]

So exactly what is a domestic incident? I don’t understand the story-wife took him to the hospital-wouldn’t the police have called for an ambulance if he needed medical attention? Would the police be okay with her taking him if there had been violence or threats? If he was just drunk, why did he need to be medically evaluated?

Maybe he was having a break down and in his breakdown the domestic occured?

 

[ACG2x]

When he got back to Indiana, he deleted several apps from his phones and put one of them in a microwave. Police were able to recover a great deal of information from his phones and other electronic devices.

Central figure linked to the Delphi murders, Kegan Kline, in court Thursday

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — For the first time, a central figure linked to the Delphi murder investigation will be heard. Kegan Kline is due in court Thursday morning. Kline faces 30 child *advertiser censored* related charges. He used a fake social media profile to solicit pictures from at least 15 underage girls. He...

www.wishtv.com

…

I have one phone.
Is it normal to have multiple phones.

Some people have two phones - one for personal calls/use and the other for business/company use. However, many companies today just pay for their employees monthly phone bill as part of the compensation package to avoid paying for another device.

With so much of the workforce going remote post-COVID, some have even stopped doing that reasoning that since WiFi is a requirement of the job, employees can make and take calls over that instead of using cell minutes.

That's a very long-winded way of saying no it's not common. I seriously doubt KK was a wheeler and dealer in the business world so his multiple phones IMO were for nefarious purposes which he kind of confirmed by throwing one into a microwave.

 

[Rosegold68]

I went back and read thread one as the whole thing unfolded

Scary how accurate early theories were

Also, early speculation within the first 20 pages was that the perp could be left handed. It was an interesting read

 

[infinit]

When he got back to Indiana, he deleted several apps from his phones and put one of them in a microwave. Police were able to recover a great deal of information from his phones and other electronic devices.

Central figure linked to the Delphi murders, Kegan Kline, in court Thursday

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — For the first time, a central figure linked to the Delphi murder investigation will be heard. Kegan Kline is due in court Thursday morning. Kline faces 30 child *advertiser censored* related charges. He used a fake social media profile to solicit pictures from at least 15 underage girls. He...

www.wishtv.com

…

I have one phone.
Is it normal to have multiple phones.

From the interview if I'm recalling correctly, it sounded like he was potentially dealing weed in an illegal manner in Vegas. Quite common for drug dealers. But also I assume he wanted to be signed into his fantasy accounts and his actual at the same time, so having more than one phone would help there.

 

[Elley Mae]

Some people have two phones - one for personal calls/use and the other for business/company use. However, many companies today just pay for their employees monthly phone bill as part of the compensation package to avoid paying for another device.

With so much of the workforce going remote post-COVID, some have even stopped doing that reasoning that since WiFi is a requirement of the job, employees can make and take calls over that instead of using cell minutes.

That's a very long-winded way of saying no it's not common. I seriously doubt KK was a wheeler and dealer in the business world so his multiple phones IMO were for nefarious purposes which he kind of confirmed by throwing one into a microwave.

Probably a stretch but could KK have been selling phones that had A-Shots on it.

 

[LightandReason]

I have used the word “guys” when speaking to more then one, as in “you guys want to go to the mall saturday”.

Jmo

Female here.

Yes. Many of us use "guys" when speaking even to other girls. But the question is, has there been any discussion around the possibility that he wasn't speaking to them? If there was a group of pedophiles using the A_S account, all of whom knew that at least Libby would be there...has there been any discussion of the possibility that there were others hiding at the end of the bridge or somewhere nearby, waiting for BG - following the girls - to direct them to the path they'd taken once off the bridge? Discussion around, for example, how that might impact LE approach to revealing evidence? The timing? Also - did Libby drop her phone somewhere and that's how they found it? How did they get it? Why didn't the BG take it?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I wonder how they would know each other though, aside from living within the same area. KAK's activity from the interview transcript seems to have been focussed in targeting children. There was nothing in it that I can recall suggesting they'd found evidence of him distributing or being active in circles sharing the material. He didn't exactly go to great lengths to hide his digital footprint, so if there was some I'd have assumed they'd have found it on his devices.

The fact that they seemed to believe more than one person had been writing the messages, yet seemingly didn't have any evidence the account had been used on any other devices other than KAK's, implies to me if there is a link, that it was in person and RA used KAK's devices.

We really don’t know what evidence they have. Here is an Interesting take on the topic from an article back in February.

Michael Tabman, a retired FBI special agent in charge, talked Monday with News 8 about the possible connection between the deaths, a child *advertiser censored* case, and a social media account. Tabman is not involved in the investigation of the murders.

(…)
Tabman said about Kline, “If he was let go after confessing, if he was let go after all these documentations and forensic evidence that the FBI and the state police shared and he was so cooperative, my guess is that he was cooperating on something else, against someone else and they didn’t want to bring that to anyone’s attention.”

(…)
The former FBI agent, though, does have a theory about the profile. Oftentimes, he says, child *advertiser censored* cases cast a wide web.

“If that account is communicating with Girl A from one ISP (internet service provider) and Girl B from a different ISP at the same time, it would indicate that more than one person was signed on that account. So, there’s probably some digital evidence that there was more than one person using that account, and it wouldn’t surprise me in that, with these child predators, (they) do tend to work in groups because they share videotapes and they share methods and they share girls.”

Former FBI agent theorizes about elusive search for answers in Delphi murders

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — News 8 continues to search for answers and the truth in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi. Monday marked five years since the girls’ bodies were found on a trail. Michael Tabman, a retired FBI special agent in charge, talked Monday with News 8 about...

www.wishtv.com

 

[infinit]

Probably a stretch but could KK have been selling phones that had A-Shots on it.

They got KAK's IP from the SM company and then went to his ISP to find who the customer was. If there had been other associated IP's that the SM company provided that had logged into the A-Shots account, I assume they'd have been arrested also (perhaps they were and we simply don't know) and had their devices searched. Or it would at least have been a line of questioning in the interview.

Working in Info Sec myself, people who are in these online CSAM groups tend to be very conscious about the information they give away, you could be talking to and trading images/video etc with someone down the street but you'd both be very unlikely to reveal information that could identify where you live or who you are for the risk you're talking to law enforcement. Most of this tends to happen on the dark web, and the individuals commonly use Tor to hide their identity. KAK doesn't fit the profile for it IMO, being stupid enough to use these SM accounts using his own IP.

JMO.

 

[Justice101]

I was wondering how BG could not have been seen but by a couple of people and apparently not seen getting into a vehicle.

I wonder if he walked there from his house.

If so, he lived right along Bridge Creek which feeds into Deer Creek at the Monon Trail Bridge.

If he followed Bridge Creek from his house, he could pass under Route 25 and be basically undetected until he came up at the south end of the Monon Trail Bridge at the end of the bridge where the girls were.

He could have planned to march them down the hill to go to Bridge Creek but they ran and his plan was spoiled.

Here is a map I hammered out.

It's some work walking along a creek like that.. but there are always deer trails to make it easier.

 

[margarita25]

Wondering if he got burner phone(s), cameras, etc. from CVS for illicit purposes. Probably.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I was wondering how BG could not have been seen but by a couple of people and apparently not seen getting into a vehicle.

I wonder if he walked there from his house.

If so, he lived right along Bridge Creek which feeds into Deer Creek at the Monon Trail Bridge.

If he followed Bridge Creek from his house, he could pass under Route 25 and be basically undetected until he came up at the south end of the Monon Trail Bridge at the end of the bridge where the girls were.

He could have planned to march them down the hill to go to Bridge Creek but they ran and his plan was spoiled.

Here is a map I hammered out.

It's some work walking along a creek like that.. but there are always deer trails to make it easier.

View attachment 377425

I have thought he could have walked there aswell. He was mid 40's and as seen in the pool video of him jumping around he was not in a bad physical condition.

 

[Heaven Leigh]

Quick question.. were their bodies moved and staged only? Not posed?
I was reading about Staging which is diff from Posing.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Quick question.. were their bodies moved and staged only? Not posed?
I was reading about Staging which is diff from Posing.

I don't think it's ever been officially confirmed that the girls were posed/staged, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Chelly]

How far were the bodies moved? Was a vehicle used?