Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

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It’s just bizarre. Why would the prosecution use an online petition as a reason to keep the PCA sealed? The argument should be made on the contents of the affidavit and the law, not an online petition signed by thousands of people who have no idea what the affidavit contains. Not getting the warm and fuzzies about the prosecution, seems they are in over their heads.
I find that a bit bizarre too. I think it speaks to the prosecutors relying on people's emotions vs. what is precedent and legal, which is not uncommon for them to do. I feel like it also gives the families false hope in how much control they are going to have in what happens and what's released; this trial will be hell for them. It feels like the prosecution is faltering a bit right out of the gate, hopefully it doesn't speak to how well they'll do at trial.
 
For those interested, there is a new MS episode out about today's hearing. I thought it was very informative on the arguments of both sides.

One of the prosecution's exhibits was apparently an affidavit from ISP 1st sergeant JH, sharing why he thought the PC should remain sealed as it pertains to the possible damage its release could do to the ongoing investigation. I respect JH's opinion, so that detail stuck with me. Jmo.

Murder Sheet - The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen's Public Access Hearing
 
Most respectfully stepped by me, for focus:

As a defense attorney yourself, would you tell the public that the PCA didn’t convince you if in fact it really did convince you? And if so would you do so as apart of your defense strategy?
I wouldn't say anything! I don't think attorneys do themselves many favors when they speak to the press. Your words can be misconstrued and then you're either stuck with it or you have to make more statements. A general "Our client looks forward to defending him/herself in court and we have no further comment" is a good nice neutral statement.
 
I wouldn't say anything! I don't think attorneys do themselves many favors when they speak to the press. Your words can be misconstrued and then you're either stuck with it or you have to make more statements. A general "Our client looks forward to defending him/herself in court and we have no further comment" is a good nice neutral statement.
I second this, I was trained on the "don't talk to the press" School of Law too
 
I still believe he acted alone and until I see damning proof I won’t believe otherwise.

He would of been caught years earlier if more than one person did this imo
Without a doubt. Statements by ISP and investigators seem to suggest that BG was messy and left behind plenty of clues. BG doesn't reek of criminal mastermind to me, but rather an incompetent and/or inexperienced criminal. If there were co-conspirators I think he would've been on the run for two months tops.
 
how can we be sure though at this point the only person who had to approve it was a judge that has since shown himself to be unqualified and unprofessional. Hopefully you are right, but i think some level of skepticism is justified here.
Of course it is justified. That’s why I hope they have thoroughly done this investigation properly and whatever evidence they have is watertight.
 
Allen's attorneys gave an interview after todays hearing. See below. At about 9:30 Andrew Baldwin gave a pretty interesting comment about the so-called 2nd person the prosecution says is involved with the girls death, saying that the probable cause affidavit does not mention any 2nd name, but that he heard from news reporters and podcasters the second person is named Kegan Kline.

 
It’s just bizarre. Why would the prosecution use an online petition as a reason to keep the PCA sealed? The argument should be made on the contents of the affidavit and the law, not an online petition signed by thousands of people who have no idea what the affidavit contains.
[rsbm] You are 100% correct. IMO online petitions are completely meaningless. I've never seen one that couldn't be manipulated. I would be astonished and horrified if a public body took any action in a matter like this, on the basis of people sitting at home clicking "me, too!" JMHO. (Though it IS correct.)
 
This is something I’ve been meaning to do for a few days now when I could find the time, prior to today’s mindblower that other people may be involved. These notes are from RL's warrant. One of the LE (DC?) has stated previously that no one has been excluded. (me again ->) Dead people can be responsible, just not held accountable for those actions. It's my belief, therefore MOO, that RL was in cahoots with RMA. I also have not ruled KAK out for being intertwined in all this due to DC "tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”". Source here.

Yes, it's long, but there's definitely food for thought IMO. Especially considering today's revelation that: Prosecutor says Richard Allen may not have acted alone

Pg 3, line 10 – On 2/14/17 @ approx. 9:20am, Logan contacted his cousin. “Tell police that ____ came to Logan’s home between 2pm and 2:30pm on 2/13/17 to pick Logan up”. (That name is ~4 letters long if you compare to the letters above) Logan further told ____ (cousin) to say that ___ drove Logan to an aquarium store in Lafayette, Indiana. Logan told _______ (cousin) to say they returned home to Logan’s house between 5:00pm and 5:30pm.

That would give both RL AND RMA an alibi for NOT being at the CS between 2:00-2:30ish… until between 5:00 and 5:30ish (when the LE was notified they were missing (family arrived shortly after 3pm and they weren’t there)). IMO RL is trying to place himself, and some person with a short name, out of the area between the crime window, and starting a few minutes before the actual crime was committed.

1) Why is RL being so specific about two 30-minute windows on the day OF the murders? The first 30-minute window when Libby’s last phone Snapchat pic posted at 2:07 which is right in the middle between 2:00 and 2:30. The latter 30-minute window coinciding with when family notified LE the girls were missing. With all the time in-between that he and ____ were supposed to be in Lafayette.

Why would RL ask a cousin to lie about TWO 30-minute windows if it was as simple as he was driving with a suspended license and didn’t want to get into trouble for that as I’ve seen some speculate? I’ve posted in other threads one thing about people who aren’t telling the truth (as per a book called Gift of Fear Survival Techniques - TOO MANY DETAILS – When people are telling the truth they don’t feel they need to elaborate on their story with ‘too many details’). IMHO I feel RL did that when he was trying to get his cousin to cover for him and asking his cousin to relay “too many details”. Something is just off about that to me.

2) Let’s say the short blacked out name that’s approximately 4 characters long is Rick for argument’s sake. Could RL be trying to protect RMA, giving him/them an alibi of why he was on RL’s property between 2:00 – 2:30 on the day of the murders? (MOO next) “Yeah, he/I was there between 2-2:30 to pick RL up to take him to Lafayette”. (Ditto for when RL & potentially RMA were there between 5-5:30. For all we know RMA could have gone back about that time, pretending he was just out for a leisurely walk on the trail by the bridge when in actuality it could have been to check what might be going on in the area of the bridge about that time.)

Pg 5, Line 15 – Based on investigators experience it is reasonable to believe that the creation of an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime indicated culpability or knowledge of the crime.

Pg 5, line 17 – LEOs learned that RL had driven on 2/13/17 (between 11:27-11:32) to the transfer station in Delphi to drop off trash.

Pg 5, Line 18 – RL did not ask <cousin> to provide an alibi for his drive to the transfer station on 2/13/17. RL only asked <cousin> to provide an alibi for a trip that would have occurred at the time of the apparent abduction of LG & AW.

Pg 5, Line 23 – Analysis of RL’s cell phone data revealed a text message received by his phone at 10:16pm on 2/13/17. Initial exam of this analysis indicated RL’s phone was likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where LG & AW’s bodies where located.

Gemmie’s comment – I wonder whatever possessed him to go to the CS when it was between 34-37° outside at 10:16pm? AND the girls hadn't even been found yet. Clean things up? Stage things? Look for Libby's phone? Take pics/souvenirs? Some or all of the above?

Pg 7, Line 30 – Based on the above aforementioned facts, RL was in the area at the time the crime occurred and that he provided false information about his activities during the crime to LE, has a prior propensity for violence, employed others to assist in deceiving LE and plotted an alibi for a crime that had not yet been discovered.

Pg 8, Line 1 – Based on the aforementioned facts, I believe there is probable cause to believe that RL has committed the crime of murder and evidence of that could be found on RL’s property.

Gemmie here. OK, mind blown. This is the first I’ve read RL’s warrant in its entirely.

Pg 8, Line 3 - <re: warrant to search for stuff> ‘including guns and cutting instruments’.

Gemmie here – Both guns and cutting instruments could make a lot of blood evidence which makes me wonder if what they haven’t told us about the CS is they were killed by a ‘cutting instrument’ since they were looking for them in RL house and property. Due to what I've read in RL's warrant, and KAK's as well, I have not excluded any of them, and believe they could all be a part of this "complex with different tentacles" case as per DC (link in first paragraph).

RL warrant: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Timeline: DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

Weather history - Weather in February 2017 in Delphi, Indiana, USA
 
For those interested, there is a new MS episode out about today's hearing. I thought it was very informative on the arguments of both sides.

One of the prosecution's exhibits was apparently an affidavit from ISP 1st sergeant JH, sharing why he thought the PC should remain sealed as it pertains to the possible damage its release could do to the ongoing investigation. I respect JH's opinion, so that detail stuck with me. Jmo.

Murder Sheet - The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen's Public Access Hearing
Oh no … did you catch the part about how the prosecution’s affidavits weren’t even sworn properly… oh dear, I hope they know what they’re doing…..
Moo
 
Not surprised by today's announcement. This Judge is going to think very hard about her decision, good for her. Of course RA's lawyers are going to spin the narrative to their benefit, it's their job. I still believe LE has RA locked in tight for the murders.

I was surprised that it was officially reported they don't think RA acted alone, although I've always thought there was some tie in to the catfishing and the whole SM connection. Maybe someone working in concert to lure them to the bridge, and perhaps help in posing/staging at the crime scene.

CSAM is a very wicked and complex web with vile things being swapped, traded and sold. These people lurk online and the depths of their depravity is unthinkable.

I don't want to think about how Abby and Libby died. I like to think of them as in the many photos showing them just being smart, funny, beautiful, teenage girls.

MOO

#Justice4Abby&Libby
 
For those interested, there is a new MS episode out about today's hearing. I thought it was very informative on the arguments of both sides.

One of the prosecution's exhibits was apparently an affidavit from ISP 1st sergeant JH, sharing why he thought the PC should remain sealed as it pertains to the possible damage its release could do to the ongoing investigation. I respect JH's opinion, so that detail stuck with me. Jmo.

Murder Sheet - The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen's Public Access Hearing
In my opinion, the "ongoing investigation" has to do with the CP investigation with Kegan Kline and his pals. Apparently Allen is linked to that somehow, IMO. The problem -- Richard Allen is not arrested for CP, he is charged with murder. The prosecution may like to keep Allen in limbo, locked up in jail while LE pursues their investigation, but that is not fair, nor is it going to work because Allen's attorney's presumable will not allow that. Maybe LE should have not arrested Allen if they were not ready to proceed? Rather than hold him in jail, with no bail, while they complete their investigation...

Allen's attorney Andrew Baldwin hint's at this when he comments (around the 9:30 mark) that some people who know more about the case than him think the 2nd person the prosecutor referred to today in court was none other than Kegan Kline.

Also a reporter says in the interview sequence below that Libby German's grandparents are also seeking to keep the probable cause affidavit associated with Allen's arrest sealed. Why would Libby's grandparents seek to keep the probable cause affidavit sealed? Are they concerned something in it may seem disrespectful to memory of their granddaughter? I hope not, nor can anything reflect poorly on her. She is a victim in all of this. This is just my opinion.

 
This is something I’ve been meaning to do for a few days now when I could find the time, prior to today’s mindblower that other people may be involved. These notes are from RL's warrant. One of the LE (DC?) has stated previously that no one has been excluded. (me again ->) Dead people can be responsible, just not held accountable for those actions. It's my belief, therefore MOO, that RL was in cahoots with RMA. I also have not ruled KAK out for being intertwined in all this due to DC "tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”". Source here.

Yes, it's long, but there's definitely food for thought IMO. Especially considering today's revelation that: Prosecutor says Richard Allen may not have acted alone

Pg 3, line 10 – On 2/14/17 @ approx. 9:20am, Logan contacted his cousin. “Tell police that ____ came to Logan’s home between 2pm and 2:30pm on 2/13/17 to pick Logan up”. (That name is ~4 letters long if you compare to the letters above) Logan further told ____ (cousin) to say that ___ drove Logan to an aquarium store in Lafayette, Indiana. Logan told _______ (cousin) to say they returned home to Logan’s house between 5:00pm and 5:30pm.

That would give both RL AND RMA an alibi for NOT being at the CS between 2:00-2:30ish… until between 5:00 and 5:30ish (when the LE was notified they were missing (family arrived shortly after 3pm and they weren’t there)). IMO RL is trying to place himself, and some person with a short name, out of the area between the crime window, and starting a few minutes before the actual crime was committed.

1) Why is RL being so specific about two 30-minute windows on the day OF the murders? The first 30-minute window when Libby’s last phone Snapchat pic posted at 2:07 which is right in the middle between 2:00 and 2:30. The latter 30-minute window coinciding with when family notified LE the girls were missing. With all the time in-between that he and ____ were supposed to be in Lafayette.

Why would RL ask a cousin to lie about TWO 30-minute windows if it was as simple as he was driving with a suspended license and didn’t want to get into trouble for that as I’ve seen some speculate? I’ve posted in other threads one thing about people who aren’t telling the truth (as per a book called Gift of Fear Survival Techniques - TOO MANY DETAILS – When people are telling the truth they don’t feel they need to elaborate on their story with ‘too many details’). IMHO I feel RL did that when he was trying to get his cousin to cover for him and asking his cousin to relay “too many details”. Something is just off about that to me.

2) Let’s say the short blacked out name that’s approximately 4 characters long is Rick for argument’s sake. Could RL be trying to protect RMA, giving him/them an alibi of why he was on RL’s property between 2:00 – 2:30 on the day of the murders? (MOO next) “Yeah, he/I was there between 2-2:30 to pick RL up to take him to Lafayette”. (Ditto for when RL & potentially RMA were there between 5-5:30. For all we know RMA could have gone back about that time, pretending he was just out for a leisurely walk on the trail by the bridge when in actuality it could have been to check what might be going on in the area of the bridge about that time.)

Pg 5, Line 15 – Based on investigators experience it is reasonable to believe that the creation of an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime indicated culpability or knowledge of the crime.

Pg 5, line 17 – LEOs learned that RL had driven on 2/13/17 (between 11:27-11:32) to the transfer station in Delphi to drop off trash.

Pg 5, Line 18 – RL did not ask <cousin> to provide an alibi for his drive to the transfer station on 2/13/17. RL only asked <cousin> to provide an alibi for a trip that would have occurred at the time of the apparent abduction of LG & AW.

Pg 5, Line 23 – Analysis of RL’s cell phone data revealed a text message received by his phone at 10:16pm on 2/13/17. Initial exam of this analysis indicated RL’s phone was likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where LG & AW’s bodies where located.

Gemmie’s comment – I wonder whatever possessed him to go to the CS when it was between 34-37° outside at 10:16pm? AND the girls hadn't even been found yet. Clean things up? Stage things? Look for Libby's phone? Take pics/souvenirs? Some or all of the above?

Pg 7, Line 30 – Based on the above aforementioned facts, RL was in the area at the time the crime occurred and that he provided false information about his activities during the crime to LE, has a prior propensity for violence, employed others to assist in deceiving LE and plotted an alibi for a crime that had not yet been discovered.

Pg 8, Line 1 – Based on the aforementioned facts, I believe there is probable cause to believe that RL has committed the crime of murder and evidence of that could be found on RL’s property.

Gemmie here. OK, mind blown. This is the first I’ve read RL’s warrant in its entirely.

Pg 8, Line 3 - <re: warrant to search for stuff> ‘including guns and cutting instruments’.

Gemmie here – Both guns and cutting instruments could make a lot of blood evidence which makes me wonder if what they haven’t told us about the CS is they were killed by a ‘cutting instrument’ since they were looking for them in RL house and property. Due to what I've read in RL's warrant, and KAK's as well, I have not excluded any of them, and believe they could all be a part of this "complex with different tentacles" case as per DC (link in first paragraph).

RL warrant: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Timeline: DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

Weather history - Weather in February 2017 in Delphi, Indiana, USA


Very nice.
I need to read it about three more times!

So if the redacted name were Rick, then this would mean that RA/RMA would've been on their radar from the start. And now only arrested.

Then again, stranger things have happened -- and this entire case, and most proceedings therein, have been mighty strange.

Also, I wonder if LE were able to go search/find what RL took to the transfer station?
It's been a long time back, and I don't recall.


jmoo
 
ABC has been quite articulate in their reporting of this case since the beginning. But their report mentions nothing whatsoever about a 2nd party involvement. Only this below so is it possible it became the source of other sensationalist, creative reportings?

Clicks and viewers is the name of the game as far as media is concerned and it would not be a flat out lie to suggest LE is considering someone else may also be involved, depending where the tips lead it may prove true or nothing at all. But if this was all that was said 2nd party involvement is not a fact. JMO

“He (McLeland) said police are still soliciting and receiving tips and have not ruled out the possibility that other people may have been involved in the crime.”
 
LE did tell us someone saw something they felt needed to be reported. Notice we didn’t hear who? What? When they came forward?
Totally hanging out on this limb on which I imagine something done at the CVS photo lab seen by another employee or even customer getting the wrong print. I’ve worked photo lab, not much, just filled in a few times back in the 80s Ben Franklin, but things happened. Way too much for my 15-year-old eyes.
And I’ve worked with a guy who got caught doing his own special activities on his work computer— in a cubicle office. Stupid mistakes and who knows why people sometimes take risks almost like they want to get caught.
Total guess/opinion/imagining here. He could also be innocent. I think that would be the worst thing to happen to make everyone lose hope in this whole case though, so naturally people are going too far in assuming guilt with what we know right now. We really want this solved and justice done.
 
I still believe he acted alone and until I see damning proof I won’t believe otherwise.

He would of been caught years earlier if more than one person did this imo
Yep. I agree. Two people is almost 1% the population of Delphi…. They’ve done an exceptionally bad job if they had six years and 1% of the population was involved in an horrific conspiracy and they ONLY JUST FOUND OUT.
 
Finally caught up, and whilst reading articles I'm always caught on the same quote.

"We have good reason to believe that Allen was not alone. That there could be other actors," McLeland said in court.

Source - The Sun

I still believe he acted alone and until I see damning proof I won’t believe otherwise.

He would of been caught years earlier if more than one person did this imo

I've always thought he was alone on the bridge and got the girls down the hill to where they were found alone (likely at gun or perhaps knife point). IMO I believe other 'actors' came into play either both before and after, or just after the murders. As I've said before I think the 'odd' things at the scene, staging/posing and multiple 'signatures', etc. Were because other(s) came to the scene for their own 'enjoyment' and perhaps took their own souvenirs.

Edited to add: Interesting to see RA's family were in court today, I wondered if they'd show. I know any good defence attorney would've ensured they were there.
 
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