Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[dm799]

We absolutely should not believe a word that parody of a news organisation posts from any unnamed 'sources'. These kind of articles exist for clicks only.

Just my opinion.

 

[Boxer]

We absolutely should not believe a word that parody of a news organisation posts from any unnamed 'sources'. These kind of articles exist for clicks only.

Just my opinion.

Agree. Clickbait.

 

[Spartygirl]

KG is Kevin Greenlee, one of the hosts of The Murder Sheet Podcast.

Murder Sheet

True Crime Podcast · 514 Episodes · Updated Daily

podcasts.apple.com

Thank you
You can tell I have followed this case since beginning when I see initials or a name and think they are all Delphi family or related.

 

[LeeAnnB]

How in Gods name would the 3 stooges handle organizing a sex ring by kidnapping the girls? Can you picture it? An elderly man with a serious drinking problem, an obese home bound pedo, an the alcoholic CVS employee.

I think this rumor has been spilled to DM by that awful guy that is selling his book where he asserts that RL is BG. I’ll admit, I enjoy the DM because they get good pictures and often some real info comes from them first. I do however believe the cat hair could in fact be true.

 

[Spartygirl]

In my humble opinion RA is not what I’d call a dead ringer to the grainy photo of the man on the bridge, as it reveals next to nothing of the subject’s face. The photo doesn’t contain enough detail to reliably identify any one person, however there certainly is similarity to RA. It also served to narrow down the suspect as a caucasian male.

LE probably got 1000s of tips they considered basically unhelpful regarding men with similar physical characteristics alone without any additional firsthand knowledge of why that person might be a suspect, therefore lacking any information to warrant further investigation. Regardless a conviction will not be based on how many tips like that were received, if any, it’s the opinion of the jury after hearing the evidence that matters.

After all RA lived and worked in Delphi and I can’t believe not one policer officer ever frequented the CVS store. We know family did and even they did not have a lightbulb “that’s him!” moment either. In fact think it’s fair to say at the time RA was arrested nobody other than LE suspected him. Indeed he was hiding in plain sight, which really isn’t all that unusual in true crime cases.

JMO

All true
I realize and have followed enough trials to know that convictions are NOT based on how many tips were called in on a certain person.
But the OP was stating they couldn't believe a tip was never called in about RA
My response was only that we DON'T KNOW if a tip was called in or not.
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

omgggggg what the heck!

LOL-- I know
While I can believe KAK and RA involved in mutual ring, the whole RL being involved is absolute BS, IMO

but--It is the DM and they do have great photos.

Murdered Delphi teens were 'victims of botched kidnapping plot'

Murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, (left) was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap murdered teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Julaine]

does all the necessary data still exist 6 years later?

Probably not. It used to be 3 years when I worked in disaster recovery and database management for a Telecom. We did keep some records going back further but it would be unlikely they would have triangulation records going back further than 36 months.

(Caveat: Without know which carrier I can’t even speculate on what records are retained beyond FTC regulations.)

It’s a really shame that RA’s original witness statement was improperly coded at the time of the initial crimes. Those records would be invaluable now.

 

[PaulaDC]

What is it that you think you see? I see what might be his hand in his pocket, behind a brown/rust fanny pack type thing. Your turn. lol

It's odd, I don't know if that's an original photo that was released or one that has been resized/ messed with but tonight it almost appeared to me that the brown thing was a brown leather glove. It's always looked like a sweatshirt or fanny pack to me over the years.

 

[Marzipan]

I respect your opinion; I just wanted to say when everyone thought KK or TK was BG and could see them as BG I was very concerned that if they were ever prosecuted for the murder all the defense would need to do is bring out the picture/video of BG. At least with RA, he's the right height, shape, size to be BG. He's already said he was there and on the bridge, so I'm feeling a lot better about RA being BG.

As far as the jacket RA/BG was wearing, it's been said it's a carhart, now whether it was a legit Carhart brand or Carhart type jacket remains to be seen, but since we can't see the distinctive carhart logo on the front, I'm guessing it's not. In the pics of RA in his blue jacket that were posted on many MSM sites, it definitely looks like a thinner fabric, rather than canvas. JMO

The hat? Yeah we can just agree to disagree, I never saw the floppy ear hat thing.

I don’t think the Carhartt logos were always so prominent back when it was a barn and labor jacket brand. I’m not sure how they became a brand that my posh little niece is asking for for Christmas. I did search for used ones and see a variety of logo size and placement and at least one that doesn’t really look like a barn jacket so much as a windbreaker. Some are hard to tell as canvas or nylon. I vaguely remember a couple of years back reading that BG’s jacket was believed to be more of a duck/canvas than nylon. And the image quality makes it hard to tell.
At least for those who feel sure RA is BG, it’s nice to know what kind of jacket it is. We’ve spent a lot of time looking at jackets! Way back I thought it was just like my dad’s Footjoy golf jacket and went down rabbit holes looking at Delphi golf event photos.

 

[Boxer]

Initially skeptical (because Daily Mail), but I don’t know… kinda ties it all together. Could it be?

Could RL be guy in all black?

Very interesting to say the least. Will wait for confirmation from LE but wow is all I can say.

Murdered Delphi teens were 'victims of botched kidnapping plot'

Murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, (left) was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap murdered teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

MOO the guy in black is RA. One of the three girls he passed near Freedom Bridge remembered him as wearing black. The other two remembered RA as wearing jeans and a blue jacket.

 

[Marzipan]

It has always looked like he had an outline of gun in his right pocket when I viewed his DTH pics a while back. Something looks 3 dimensional to me with a dark shadow outlining it underneath.

View attachment 387592

I suppose one could argue that his waistband is close to his jacket pocket but it's a big 'no cigar' for me. Also, if it was in his waistband, and made that outline through his jacket, that's not how you place a gun in your waistband. It's barrel in first with handle up. And who would know that? I know if I was going to do what he did I for darn sure wouldn't tell anyone that I was going to carry my gun, let alone add "in my waistband". It just doesn't sound very plausible IMHO.

So, IF he told someone he was going to carry a gun to do what he did ("in his waistband", no less)... that person would be in cahoots with him for what went down IMO. Whether that's planning, participating, a receiver of things (pics), or sharing access to Libby via A_S's account. And we all know who that would be. KAK, and possibly RL, since for whatever reason, RL felt he had to ask his cousin to lie to LE about being picked up between 2:00-2:30 which was when things first went down, and before the bodies were even found. I mean, who DOES that?!? Even LE thought it indicated culpability or knowledge of a crime (Top of Pg 5).


View attachment 387593
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View attachment 387594

Delphi murders cop shares eerie theory on bullet found between girls' bodies

AN unspent bullet found between the bodies of the girls slain in the Delphi murders may have been ejected from their killer’s gun after he racked the weapon to scare them, a former investigat…

www.the-sun.com

RL PCA: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

This image seems to change over time, shapeshifting like @minazoe said.
I’m looking at the brown thing now and my eyes are tricking me — because what I’m seeing is even weirder than a puppy. I’m not superstitious but if ever there was an evil photo, this is it.

 

[Boxer]

It has always looked like he had an outline of gun in his right pocket when I viewed his DTH pics a while back. Something looks 3 dimensional to me with a dark shadow outlining it underneath.

View attachment 387592

I suppose one could argue that his waistband is close to his jacket pocket but it's a big 'no cigar' for me. Also, if it was in his waistband, and made that outline through his jacket, that's not how you place a gun in your waistband. It's barrel in first with handle up. And who would know that? I know if I was going to do what he did I for darn sure wouldn't tell anyone that I was going to carry my gun, let alone add "in my waistband". It just doesn't sound very plausible IMHO.

So, IF he told someone he was going to carry a gun to do what he did ("in his waistband", no less)... that person would be in cahoots with him for what went down IMO. Whether that's planning, participating, a receiver of things (pics), or sharing access to Libby via A_S's account. And we all know who that would be. KAK, and possibly RL, since for whatever reason, RL felt he had to ask his cousin to lie to LE about being picked up between 2:00-2:30 which was when things first went down, and before the bodies were even found. I mean, who DOES that?!? Even LE thought it indicated culpability or knowledge of a crime (Top of Pg 5).


View attachment 387593
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View attachment 387594

Delphi murders cop shares eerie theory on bullet found between girls' bodies

AN unspent bullet found between the bodies of the girls slain in the Delphi murders may have been ejected from their killer’s gun after he racked the weapon to scare them, a former investigat…

www.the-sun.com

RL PCA: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Agree. MOO, IMO the outline is clear. Long ago made the ID as a Sig Sauer Elite (p226.)
Why it’s positioned like it is, can’t say. Maybe his waist holster was no good on an actual hike, so he put the Sig in a pocket.

 

[somequestions]

I'm sure I've missed about a million details on this case so refresh my memory, what does being left handed have to do with this case?

And the floppy ear Swiss army type hat? I'm not sure what that has to do with anything either. I distinctly recall in the first moments/hours of that image being released most here were fairly sure it was a flat, newsboy type of cap. Although we were all very limited to a super grainy image so, the cap/hat style was never a 100% thing.

Some people who looked at the video of bridge guy early on thought they could see the outline of a gun in the jacket, but the outline of the gun handle was facing the bridge guy's left hand. Also, when I looked at the video I thought bridge guy might take a longer step with his left foot than his right. I saw some video of Richard Allen playing pool and he looks like he is right-handed, but I do not know for sure.

I see a floppy ear Swiss army type hat. That is my opinion. Others may see a different type of hat. I have not seen any pictures of Richard Allen wearing a floppy ear Swiss Army type hat.

None of what I wrote has much to do with the case. A bullet from Richard Allen's gun was found between girl's bodies at the crime scene. How could that bullet from his gun be so close to the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German if he was not there at the crime scene when they were murdered? I understand that. I was providing a different perspective.

 

[somequestions]

I know...Daily Mail....

Murdered Delphi teens were 'victims of botched kidnapping plot'

Murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, (left) was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap murdered teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

EXCLUSIVE: Murdered Delphi teens were intended victims of ‘botched' child sex kidnap plot, cops believe, as investigators dig up DEAD CAT to try to match hairs found on girls to alleged killer’s pet​

• Richard Allen, 50, was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap slain Delphi teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in 2017
• Allen, who is charged with the murders, is believed to have acted with at least two other men in a plot to kidnap and rape the girls, sources told DailyMail.com
• A source claimed the suspected killer has ties to 28-year-old pedophile Kegan Kline, of Peru, Indiana - who was previously named as a suspect in the murders
• Both have also been linked to Ron Logan, who authorities previously pegged as the suspect in the case after the girls' bodies were found on his property
• Investigators believe that the plan had been for Allen to kidnap the girls and bring them to Logan's home where he and, allegedly Kline, would rape them
• The source says police dug up Allen's dead cat to see if its hairs matched hairs found on the girls' bodies

Interesting.

If true this would explain a lot. But I find it hard to believe this was done by more than one person and kept a secret for this long.

 

[The Observer]

Snips from this DM article previously posted

"Now, DailyMail.com has been told they were digging up the family's dead cat, whose hair proved a match for the samples found on one of the victims."

@TL4S
"According to the source, the killer was wearing a gun on his waistband."

Murdered Delphi teens were 'victims of botched kidnapping plot'

Murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, (left) was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap murdered teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

IF this source is accurate (and we all suspected the digging for a dead pet) how does defence explain away the cat hair!?

Plenty of us speculated others 'visited' the girls bodies after the 'signatures', 'staging' and 'souvenirs' comments. I won't be shocked if it all ties in as per source... But I won't be surprised if it's not true.

 

[The Observer]

How in Gods name would the 3 stooges handle organizing a sex ring by kidnapping the girls? Can you picture it? An elderly man with a serious drinking problem, an obese home bound pedo, an the alcoholic CVS employee.

I think this rumor has been spilled to DM by that awful guy that is selling his book where he asserts that RL is BG. I’ll admit, I enjoy the DM because they get good pictures and often some real info comes from them first. I do however believe the cat hair could in fact be true.

BBM. Ugh. Would not be remotely surprised.

 

[TL4S]

I don’t think the Carhartt logos were always so prominent back when it was a barn and labor jacket brand. I’m not sure how they became a brand that my posh little niece is asking for for Christmas. I did search for used ones and see a variety of logo size and placement and at least one that doesn’t really look like a barn jacket so much as a windbreaker. Some are hard to tell as canvas or nylon. I vaguely remember a couple of years back reading that BG’s jacket was believed to be more of a duck/canvas than nylon. And the image quality makes it hard to tell.
At least for those who feel sure RA is BG, it’s nice to know what kind of jacket it is. We’ve spent a lot of time looking at jackets! Way back I thought it was just like my dad’s Footjoy golf jacket and went down rabbit holes looking at Delphi golf event photos.

In one of the older HLN "DTH" episodes, TL said that they have had many blue jackets turned in to LE, but not THE blue jacket. For him to be able to say that, I suspect they have fiber evidence, and since RA's lawyers have claimed he didn't get rid of his clothing (if true), LE now might have THE jacket to compare forensics. Might be a more difficult detail than the unspent round for defense to explain being at the CS.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I do not think RA is BG or the person who murdered the girls. I have some problems with it being him. He does not seem to be left-handed. He does not seem to have a floppy ear Swiss army type hat. His jacket seems more like a thicker jean jacket than a thinner material, like a blue windbreaker(which is what I see in the still video picture).

Also, with the way the police spoke about whatever happened to Abigail Williams and Liberty German, it made it seem like it was not a normal murder, but something more unique. The idea too, that one girl would probably have to watch the other one die, made it even stranger.

It does not make sense. But everything I wrote is subjective.

I agree with you. The jacket is a windbreaker, obviously not canvas or canvas-like. Also, we're to believe that the FBI and others helped clean up the image. So, they spent time with the image of BG, the background, and the foreground, and they missed the height estimate by a country mile?? I don't buy that. Further, not one person who mentions BG describes him as short. 5'4" is notably shorter than the average U.S. male.

Lastly, this business of this unspent round and suddenly everything into place, smacks of

Agree with all of this.
Initially, many moons ago, when this case was still very young, I “saw” the gun in BG’s jacket pocket and deduced he was left-handed.
Now I look at that picture and I’m not so sure it’s even a gun. Not sure what it might be, but still looks mostly like a gun.
Pictures of RA playing pool show him playing right-handed which would mean nothing really. It could be an eye dominance thing like you suggest. Or he could just be a little ambidextrous. I am no doubt left-handed, but play the guitar and throw a ball right handed.

I see the gun. To me it appears holstered, and he appears to be left-handed. Some people, I'm one, they are opposite eye dominant and shoot with their dominant hand, with both eyes open. I'm suggesting that even if someone is opposite eye dominant, he or she may still shoot with their dominant hand. MOO

 

[MissUnderstood]

So then... someone please check my math & facts because, this sure seems like a load of horsestuff.

"The source claims that Kline, from whose devices police retrieved a slew of child *advertiser censored*, knows Allen, and that the men met when both lived in Peru, roughly 40 miles northwest of Delphi." (from the DM link upthread)

So, RA is 50, KK is 28. I'm assuming it's accepted that RA bought the house and moved to Delphi (not a clue where he lived before Delphi) in 2006 so that's 16 years ago.

Which means KK would have been younger than 12, when RA moved to Delphi.

I'm not trying to sound like a smart alec but, what am I missing here?

Maybe he was friends with KK’ dad. Maybe having kids the same age and living close together in Peru, all moo of course. I posted something similar a few weeks ago but my post got canned

 

[MissUnderstood]

The DM article, whether true or not, certainly does make sense on how this went down. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is almost exactly what happened. It’s plausible this was a kidnapping plan that went so so wrong. If RA was forcing the girls to RL’s property and the girls protested or tried to escape he could have panicked and then the plan turns to s**t! According to the article, both sustained knife injuries, but different forms of use, that could imply two people where there. With the release of this info maybe we will get some more verified info from LE. This must be awful for family. I hope this trial is over as quick as possible so the family can start to move on in as much peace as possible. Moo