IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Observer33]

I disagree. Outlandish claims and numerous motions to suppress evidence create a problem with credibility.

The only thing they can really use in court was the results on the ejected bullet. It's not 100% proof, more like 90%... but that was the only thing they could hang their hat on. They didn't have much to work with.

except, you don't know if their claims are outlandish. They haven't been heard in court. What if every claim they have made is true? You can choose to believe that can't be the case but until it is given a hearing, we don't know. <modsnip> There simply is no evidence RA did it. IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

It’s becoming noticeable by the defense attorneys taking responsibility for the leak, albeit minimizing it, there is little or no public curiosity about the identity of Baldwin’s ‘friend’ who snookered him by stealing and then leaking copies of crime scene pics and future defense strategy.

If Baldwin is indeed innocent, I would expect both attorneys will be aggressively pursuing criminal charges and suing this ”M” character for data theft and for damaging their reputations. If that doesn’t occur it gives the appearance they were complicit. JMO

My current hunch (based on nothing but a hunch) is the identity of the leaker(s) will have nothing to do with the Delphi case, but that the leakers were motivated by something else. Perhaps a personal or other grievance against the lawyers.

I am very curious about the "friend" who snookered the lawyer. Odd word, "snookered."


jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Take some time to read about the effects solitary confinement. RA could have been confessing because of the conditions in an attempt to get out of solitary confinement. I have seen it first hand and you can't image what it does to a hardened criminal let alone a first time, unconvicted, person.

Fair point. The odd thing is that he was reported to confess to family members. What would that have bought him?

I would like to know if the confessions were credible and truly voluntary. Did he admit to something that only the killer would know?

 

[CGBSpender]

See if there's another county jail that has better accommodations to keep RA secure and safe from other prisoners? IIRC, his safety among other prisoners was a concern, as was his mental health problems, correct? Perhaps there's a larger county jail in an urban area that has better facilities to isolate prisoners. JMO

I think safety is the primary concern. Every time he leaves Westville he is surrounded by US Marshals like he is about to testify against a cartel boss or something. I can see where Westville is helpful given his mental health needs...because there are on-site physicians, nurses, and resources to care for him. Whereas if you put him in a county jail, now you have to call the Marshals in to transport every time he has an issue that requires him to receive medical treatment. If they are truly fearful for his safety, I can see wanting to put him somewhere that limits the need to transport him as much as possible (since during transport outside the facility is when he is most at risk for a safety issue).

JMO

 

[Observer33]

The ex-defence acknowledged the confessions occurred in legal filings. Why would they do that if didn’t happen?

“Allen’s defense team argued the confession couldn't be taken as truth given Allen’s deteriorating mental and physical health while in prison.”

Defense attorneys for Richard Allen withdraw representation just before October 19 hearing

It’s been nearly a year since Indiana State Police first announced an arrest in the 2017 murders of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi, Indiana. On Thursday, the suspect in the murders, Richard Allen, has a status hearing in Allen...

www.abc57.com

doesn't matter. until we hear the confession and the circumstances surrounding them, we don't know how reliable they are or if they are even credible. RA wouldn't be the first to confess to a crime he didn't commit especially after being detained in solitary confinement.

 

[Betty P]

This case has been different including placing RA in solitary confinement in a state prison. They aren't interested in fairness.

Fairness won't prevent a guilty verdict.

 

[Observer33]

Fair point. The odd thing is that he was reported to confess to family members. What would that have bought him?

I would like to know if the confessions were credible and truly voluntary. Did he admit to something that only the killer would know?

it could have been an attempt to get himself out of solitary. He isn't thinking clearly after spending time there so he wouldn't be making rational decisions. Like you said, until we hear them who knows if they are legit.

 

[sunshineray]

The defense attorney's job is to force the government (the prosecution) to prove the case.

Prosecutor: Joe Meany murdered!

Defense: Prove it.

The defense's job is, essentially, to say "prove it" to the government. If we didn't have defense attorneys, the government could make allegations and take people's liberty away without being held to the law.

When looking at individual cases, it can sometimes look like the defense attorneys are helping clients "get away" with crimes, but the bigger picture is they are preventing the government from "getting away" with allegations that don't hold up to the law.

jmo

Everyone accused deserves to put forth a defense but not, through their lawyers, to repeatedly disclose to the public information that the court has put under seal. Three times RA's defense has facilitated this happening...directly and possibly indirectly ( the crime scene photos). Are they not then to be held accountable for releasing death photos of minors that originated from their office?

Attorney Baldwin is now, through his own lawyer, saying he was coerced into withdrawing as RA's lawyer, that he was abused, hoodwinked, betrayed and the horrible chain of events wasn't his fault. Where does the buck stop in this situation I wonder?

MY OPINION ONLY...that letter from Attorney Hennessey was just damage controll on behalf of his client's reputation. His client had a day of reckoning yesterday. His "friend" gained access through him and then put photos of murdered children online...forever. The buck stops with Attorney Baldwin, no getting out of that. ALL JUST MY OPINION.

 

[tlcya]

My current hunch (based on nothing but a hunch) is the identity of the leaker(s) will have nothing to do with the Delphi case, but that the leakers were motivated by something else. Perhaps a personal or other grievance against the lawyers.

I am very curious about the "friend" who snookered the lawyer. Odd word, "snookered."


jmo

to prevent someone from finishing an intended plan of action: snookered

• BRITISH
  leave (someone) in a difficult position; thwart.
  "I managed to lose my car keys—that was me snookered"
  
  
  
• US
  trick, entice, or trap.
  "they were snookered into buying books at prices that were too high"
  
  

 

[Observer33]

Fairness won't prevent a guilty verdict.

you are assuming he is guilty. fairness would be bail so he can help his attorneys. being held without bail drastically increases the states chances of conviction. he should be out on bail, monitored with full, unobstructed access to his attorneys. he had a job, a house and community ties.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This case has been different including placing RA in solitary confinement in a state prison. They aren't interested in fairness.

I think RA needs to testify and he can't do that in his current condition. If his atty can get him out of the hell-hole, maybe he'll get mentally and physically healthy again.

 

[MistyWaters]

Take some time to read about the effects solitary confinement. RA could have been confessing because of the conditions in an attempt to get out of solitary confinement. I have seen it first hand and you can't image what it does to a hardened criminal let alone a first time, unconvicted, person.

Given the high profile of this crime, imagine if he was tossed into the general population somewhere. There’d be at least one snitch a day contacting the media.

There’s no perfect solution and considering the current happenings, I think where he’s held is the very least of his problems.

 

[Observer33]

I think RA needs to testify and he can't do that in his current condition. If his atty can get him out of the hell-hole, maybe he'll get mentally and physically healthy again.

exactly. he should be out of bail. pretrial detention is a huge advantage for the state.

 

[Betty P]

I think safety is the primary concern. Every time he leaves Westville he is surrounded by US Marshals like he is about to testify against a cartel boss or something. I can see where Westville is helpful given his mental health needs...because there are on-site physicians, nurses, and resources to care for him. Whereas if you put him in a county jail, now you have to call the Marshals in to transport every time he has an issue that requires him to receive medical treatment. If they are truly fearful for his safety, I can see wanting to put him somewhere that limits the need to transport him as much as possible (since during transport outside the facility is when he is most at risk for a safety issue).

JMO

They're using US Marshals? That can be a budget buster if he has to be transferred frequently. With the Wagner family defendants, they were able to keep them in separate county jails and used county sheriffs for guards.

 

[steeltowngirl]

except, you don't know if their claims are outlandish. They haven't been heard in court. What if every claim they have made is true? You can choose to believe that can't be the case but until it is given a hearing, we don't know. The ejected casing is junk science. <modsnip>. There simply is no evidence RA did it. IMO

I’m not a fan of the bullet / casing evidence, and they will need more than that to obtain a conviction.

Both sides will have their opportunity to present evidence in court.

We need to hear what other evidence the state has, before we can say they have no evidence that proves RA is guilty.

jmo

 

[Observer33]

Given the high profile of this crime, imagine if he was tossed into the general population somewhere. There’d be at least one snitch a day contacting the media.

There’s no perfect solution and considering the current happenings, I think where he’s held is the least of his problems.

The perfect solution is bail. The second is housed in a county jail in close proximity to his legal team.

 

[MistyWaters]

it could have been an attempt to get himself out of solitary. He isn't thinking clearly after spending time there so he wouldn't be making rational decisions. Like you said, until we hear them who knows if they are legit.

Confessing to murders used to get one convicted.

 

[CGBSpender]

They're using US Marshals? That can be a budget buster if he has to be transferred frequently. With the Wagner family defendants, they were able to keep them in separate county jails and used county sheriffs for guards.

Yes. Depending on the clips you watch..probably easily 6-10 US Marshals rolling with him to and from Westville to attend court. His security is clearly and utmost priority.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

The perfect solution is bail. The second is housed in a county jail in close proximity to his legal team.

What legal team?

 

[FrostedGlass]

exactly. he should be out of bail. pretrial detention is a huge advantage for the state.

That would be pretty rare in Indiana for an accused double murderer to be out on bond.