IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[MistyWaters]

haven't listened; thank you for doing the listen and reporting.

A little odd ... the way that MS feels compelled to share looooong recordings of the subject of an LE Leak investigation rather than giving that stuff to LE ... but perhaps they know something we don't know ...

curiouser and curiouser

Only if AB claimed to never have heard of MW would LE require an interview from months before the crime occurred.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

What would come next - wheel over the entire discovery file to the Daily Mail?

Somehow it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that the DM already has the discovery file.

Nothing would surprise me anymore about this case.

 

[Emma Peel]

looking forward ...

Wondering if the Nov deadline for P to forward remaining discovery to D will be pushed out.

It would seem the Court can't act on any P Motions until new D is ready for case to resume schedule.
New D will make their own decisions with regard to what happens with old D's motions.
Likely, former D's motions will be withdrawn or replaced by the new Defense.

Happy holding pattern to all.

 

[mrjitty]

Is was a Memordandom/Brief that Hennessy file, not a motion. But you’re right, AB had to have known in advance the Judge was going to deal with the leak that day.

Sorry yes - dangers of typing on the mobile.

Clearly there had been some kind of discussions/conference in advance of the hearing as they came prepared with additional counsel to argue the point. But we don't really know exactly what was going on.

Without knowing what came down I think it can’t be assumed the Judge planned for the leak issue to be dealt with behind closed doors. Perhaps the D requested a meeting in her chambers and it wasn’t acceptable to them that any or all of their transgressions to be heard in public. Apparentky AB didn’t later appear in the courtroom at all. Perhaps he told the Judge to stuff it where the sun don’t shine and stormed off. In a case such as that I doubt she’d be forced to wait for a formal letter of withdrawal.

I agree she didn't have to wait, but I simply find it strange she didn't make AB apply formally. I don't think there is necessarily any conspiracy here, but I do think it isn't a good look that this had turned into a sanctions hearing, and counsel then quits 'under duress' all behind closed doors.

Why are the grounds not on the record?

Regardless of RA’s preference, defense under duress isn’t fair to anybody let alone the defendant. What would come next - wheel over the entire discovery file to the Daily Mail?

My opinion is they also learned in chambers the Franks Hearing was not going to be approved. So much had been riding on that happening, this case was becoming more trouble than it was worth and tempers flaired. I don‘t recall where I read it but someone attending court said they thought they heard loud voices.

JMO

To my mind, we shouldn't be speculating about such critical matters. It should be on the record

As for the Franks hearing, this is why I am super sceptical of both the defence team and the judge.

We are a year in, a man is sitting in jail, possibly on the basis of a defective warrant and we haven't even managed to have the hearing yet?

This isn't rocket science, and the defence, on the papers, have shown at least an arguable case on that score. Where is the urgency to schedule the hearing or decline it?

Bonkers

 

[MistyWaters]

Sorry yes - dangers of typing on the mobile.

Clearly there had been some kind of discussions/conference in advance of the hearing as they came prepared with additional counsel to argue the point. But we don't really know exactly what was going on.



I agree she didn't have to wait, but I simply find it strange she didn't make AB apply formally. I don't think there is necessarily any conspiracy here, but I do think it isn't a good look that this had turned into a sanctions hearing, and counsel then quits 'under duress' all behind closed doors.

Why are the grounds not on the record?



To my mind, we shouldn't be speculating about such critical matters. It should be on the record

As for the Franks hearing, this is why I am super sceptical of both the defence team and the judge.

We are a year in, a man is sitting in jail, possibly on the basis of a defective warrant and we haven't even managed to have the hearing yet?

This isn't rocket science, and the defence, on the papers, have shown at least an arguable case on that score. Where is the urgency to schedule the hearing or decline it?

Bonkers

Yes I agree. Rather than the 3 minute hearing, if instead it was the Judge‘s intention to rule on the outstanding matters, that got derailed since RA couldn’t be present in Court without legal representation. Hopefully new counsel will be appointed for him by the 31st. A entire year has gone by and progress on this case is hardly out of the starting gate.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

There are still no updates to RA's case.

When KAK decided to change attys, he filed a motion to withdraw appearance on Friday, 05/19 and on Tuesday, 5/23 the two atty appearances were filed.

We should be seeing something regarding RA's attys soon, IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m curious how attractive the opportunity to defend RA is to prospective public defenders. Would there be several waiting in the wings “ya, pick me” — to total disinterest in picking up the pieces and following in the footsteps of the two predecessors who withdrew.

Attorneys: Resignation of Richard Allen’s defense team could result in yearlong delay in Delphi murders trial

The trial is now on hold after special judge Frances Gull announced public defenders Bradley Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin stepped away from the case.

www.wthr.com

“……“Right now, Indiana is facing an attorney shortage,” IPDC assistant executive director Michael Moore said. “So it's very likely this process could take a long time because of the sheer lack of lawyers available.”…..

…….Some Indiana counties have a public defender agency or special board that appoints public defenders for indigent defendants. That is not the case in Carroll County, where Allen is facing two murder charges. Because Carroll County relies on judicial appointment when assigning a public defender, Gull will have sole discretion in determining who will become Allen’s new defense counsel.

Carroll County is also a member of the Indiana Public Defender Commission, which means any public defender appointed to Allen must have extensive legal experience. The commission requires that its member counties hire attorneys for murder cases who have at least three years of criminal litigation experience and who have served as lead defense counsel in at least three jury trials that were tried to completion. In exchange for meeting the commission standards, member counties qualify for partial reimbursement for their public defender fees.

Whether Gull will appoint a single public defender to represent Allen or again select multiple attorneys is not yet known……”

 

[mrjitty]

Rozzi hasn't even filed to leave the case yet?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I’m curious how attractive the opportunity to defend RA is to prospective public defenders. Would there be several waiting in the wings “ya, pick me” — to total disinterest in picking up the pieces and following in the footsteps of the two predecessors who withdrew.

Attorneys: Resignation of Richard Allen’s defense team could result in yearlong delay in Delphi murders trial

The trial is now on hold after special judge Frances Gull announced public defenders Bradley Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin stepped away from the case.

www.wthr.com

“……“Right now, Indiana is facing an attorney shortage,” IPDC assistant executive director Michael Moore said. “So it's very likely this process could take a long time because of the sheer lack of lawyers available.”…..

…….Some Indiana counties have a public defender agency or special board that appoints public defenders for indigent defendants. That is not the case in Carroll County, where Allen is facing two murder charges. Because Carroll County relies on judicial appointment when assigning a public defender, Gull will have sole discretion in determining who will become Allen’s new defense counsel.

Carroll County is also a member of the Indiana Public Defender Commission, which means any public defender appointed to Allen must have extensive legal experience. The commission requires that its member counties hire attorneys for murder cases who have at least three years of criminal litigation experience and who have served as lead defense counsel in at least three jury trials that were tried to completion. In exchange for meeting the commission standards, member counties qualify for partial reimbursement for their public defender fees.

Whether Gull will appoint a single public defender to represent Allen or again select multiple attorneys is not yet known……”

I was under the impression that 2 attorney's are required to represent RA. ICBW though. I guess I could look it up but my bed is callin' my name.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Rozzi hasn't even filed to leave the case yet?

No.

 

[Bergmann]

Sorry yes - dangers of typing on the mobile.

Clearly there had been some kind of discussions/conference in advance of the hearing as they came prepared with additional counsel to argue the point. But we don't really know exactly what was going on.



I agree she didn't have to wait, but I simply find it strange she didn't make AB apply formally. I don't think there is necessarily any conspiracy here, but I do think it isn't a good look that this had turned into a sanctions hearing, and counsel then quits 'under duress' all behind closed doors.

Why are the grounds not on the record?



To my mind, we shouldn't be speculating about such critical matters. It should be on the record

As for the Franks hearing, this is why I am super sceptical of both the defence team and the judge.

We are a year in, a man is sitting in jail, possibly on the basis of a defective warrant and we haven't even managed to have the hearing yet?

This isn't rocket science, and the defence, on the papers, have shown at least an arguable case on that score. Where is the urgency to schedule the hearing or decline it?

Bonkers

I think the whole thing is sus'. J going suo moto and lots of things going on orally and the court record not being updated - this is not normal and no good pretending it is.

The entire case is a mess and its not just the D who are culpable - its a *advertiser censored* show all round from the start. The lack of transparency is not protecting anything its just begging more and more questions. Legal minded friends and family members just can't believe what is being allowed to go on, describing it as 'law which you make up as you go along'.

(MOO) Meanwhile those who are prematurely convinced of RAs guilt continue just to pretend its all the fault of D and the rest is normal - 'nothing to see here'.

I cannot see if it continues this way that any trial of this making can possibly be televised - there seems IMO to be too much shenanigans going on for that to be aired in public...

 

[FrostedGlass]

It seems like each new development sends me back to the beginning. The article that I linked below was first posted on Oct. 28 and updated on Oct 30. How did the reporter have any knowledge of the transfer at the time of posting?

The PCA file dates are way off from each other. Is this a typo?

10/28/2022

Probable Cause Affidavit Filed Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 01/28/2022

They moved him to White Co and then to Westville without transport orders. Is that allowable?

Oct 26 Wed = ISP arrest RA at LaFayette post
Oct 28 Friday = RA booked into Carol Co jail, charged and transferred to White Co jail *See PCA file dates
Oct 30 Sunday = UPDATE @ 7:51 pm: Police confirmed on Sunday that Richard Allen is not cooperating with their investigation into the murders after being taken into jail. Allen, 50, has been moved to a state facility for his safety, sources said.
Oct 31 Mon = ISP announcement 10:33 am
Nov 3 Thursday = Transfer request, Order issued, Diener recusal, Special judge selection
Nov 9 = RA public defender request
Nov 14 = Council/ co-council appearance filed
Nov 16 = First transport order entered

Man booked into Carroll County Jail in connection with Delphi murders not cooperating with investigation

UPDATE: Police confirmed on Sunday that Richard Allen is not cooperating with their investigation into the murders after being taken into jail. Original story below. DELPHI, Ind. — Multiple s…

fox59.com

Arrest Made for the Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German

content.govdelivery.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

No.

The Judge last Friday said she expected within a few days.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Former Baldwin firm employee/associate that allegedly grabbed the CS photos from Balwin's office and Leaked them to "R".

And several others before they even got to MS according to the latest Podcast.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

The Judge last Friday said she expected within a few days.

B and R made their appearance on the 3rd business day after RA requested one. I suspect it's more difficult this time. Him being up in Westville (the drive back and forth to see their client) could be an issue.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I just finished listening to the MS podcast with MW and he did not do the defense team any favors in that interview.I had to break it up into several pieces to get through it all.
The words he used to describe the office environment gave the impression of being - lax, casual atmosphere. Also, he seems to always make it seem that AB was seeking his input and validation which I find odd considering MW failed the bar.
To think he went on to be the compliance manager at another business blew me away.
Hindsight is 20/20 but wow this guy.

Yes, and that interview was recorded back when the former D Team first came on board, before the leaks. MW spoke of some things that I find highly questionable. Seems like AB liked to share his casework and information with a lot of people.

Some of the tactics MW spoke about, obviously an alleged rape case, with AB going to place 16 shot glasses to emphasize the amount of alcohol consumed onto the jury railing during his closing. He then changed gears after his partner found (AB told MW not to share with her that little dramatic strategy) out and MW 'felt is was a bad idea' so he told her. They then stopped AB from doing that little number.

Bad idea to intentionally withhold something like that from your fellow trial lawyer, and even worse for MW to be blabbing about it. He even mentioned the Lawyer's name, not the case, but it wouldn't be hard to find out if a person was so inclined to sleuth it.

Unprofessional from A - Z IMO. Yuck

moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm dense…who’s MW?

The leaker of the CS photos from the D's office.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Sorry yes - dangers of typing on the mobile.

Clearly there had been some kind of discussions/conference in advance of the hearing as they came prepared with additional counsel to argue the point. But we don't really know exactly what was going on.



I agree she didn't have to wait, but I simply find it strange she didn't make AB apply formally. I don't think there is necessarily any conspiracy here, but I do think it isn't a good look that this had turned into a sanctions hearing, and counsel then quits 'under duress' all behind closed doors.

Why are the grounds not on the record?



To my mind, we shouldn't be speculating about such critical matters. It should be on the record

As for the Franks hearing, this is why I am super sceptical of both the defence team and the judge.

We are a year in, a man is sitting in jail, possibly on the basis of a defective warrant and we haven't even managed to have the hearing yet?

This isn't rocket science, and the defence, on the papers, have shown at least an arguable case on that score. Where is the urgency to schedule the hearing or decline it?

Bonkers

We can thank the Defense team, AB in particular, for this latest crap show. It's their actions that have caused the delay, and now a new Defense appointment, which will push it back another year or so IMO. RA can thank them personally not the Prosecution for another year of waiting.

You keep saying there is no record. We don't know that court reporter wasn't in Chambers during the entire conversation. For a case of this magnitude and the ramifications of such an unusual ruling, I would BET that the Judge most definitely had a record made. We just don't know either way yet, maybe because of the gag order, or maybe because the Defense did something so egregious that it is under seal.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have yet to understand how the judge handles sealed documents. It was an assumption of mine that the entries we see in the docket are available to the public to either see or buy and the sealed ones are not visible to us.

Since we've seen the other 2 filings on this date but not this one, I'm going to guess it's sealed.

10/19/2023

Affidavit Filed Affidavit Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Date: 10/18/2023

 

[MistyWaters]

I have yet to understand how the judge handles sealed documents. It was an assumption of mine that the entries we see in the docket are available to the public to either see or buy and the sealed ones are not visible to us.

Since we've seen the other 2 filings on this date but not this one, I'm going to guess it's sealed.

10/19/2023

Affidavit Filed Affidavit Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Date: 10/18/2023

I’ve thought that is this. It repeats much the same content as Hennesy’s memorandum but he’s not representing RA.

Richard Allen defends his attorneys in Delphi murders evidence leak

The man facing trial in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German wants to keep his attorneys, despite a leak of evidence.

www.wishtv.com

“INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man facing charges in the Delphi double murder, wants a judge to allow him to keep his current attorneys despite a leak of evidence in the case.

Allen made the request in a court filing Thursday morning ahead of a scheduled 2pm court hearing.….

…In Thursday’s filing, Allen argues he has “developed a strong and trusting bond with Mr. Baldwin,” and that removing Baldwin from the case would “greatly prejudice his right to counsel and a timely trial.”….”