IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[twall]

Docket update

 

[TL4S]

I’ve thought that is this. It repeats much the same content as Hennesy’s memorandum but he’s not representing RA.

Richard Allen defends his attorneys in Delphi murders evidence leak

The man facing trial in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German wants to keep his attorneys, despite a leak of evidence.

www.wishtv.com

“INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man facing charges in the Delphi double murder, wants a judge to allow him to keep his current attorneys despite a leak of evidence in the case.

Allen made the request in a court filing Thursday morning ahead of a scheduled 2pm court hearing.….

…In Thursday’s filing, Allen argues he has “developed a strong and trusting bond with Mr. Baldwin,” and that removing Baldwin from the case would “greatly prejudice his right to counsel and a timely trial.”….”

This article is what I keep seeing, but Hennesy can't speak for RA, can he? He represents Baldwin, not RA, and the memo doesn't say anywhere about what RA directly said or wants. I don't think we really know where RA stood on matters. Jmo.

 

[Emma Peel]

This article is what I keep seeing, but Hennesy can't speak for RA, can he? He represents Baldwin, not RA, and the memo doesn't say anywhere about what RA directly said or wants. I don't think we really know where RA stood on matters. Jmo.

Hennessey memo was accompanied by (and referenced) RA's simultaneous affidavit (filed/sealed) in support of his Defense attnys - both documents entered on docket same moment. (JMO)

 

[MistyWaters]

This article is what I keep seeing, but Hennesy can't speak for RA, can he? He represents Baldwin, not RA, and the memo doesn't say anywhere about what RA directly said or wants. I don't think we really know where RA stood on matters. Jmo.

No Hennessy can’t speak for RA but there were two separate filings shortly before the hearing was to begin. Speculation only but would make sense to me that this plea was filed on behalf of RA (he probably didn’t write it but would’ve signed it) to retain his counsel and then Hennessy repeated portions of that in his memo/brief.

 

[FrostedGlass]

One of the documents was filed "for" Richard Allen and two were filed "by" Richard Allen. Through the docket, RA's atty motions are filed "by Richard Allen" but by not him personally.

10/19/2023	Affidavit Filed Affidavit Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Date: 10/18/2023
10/19/2023	Temporary/Limited Scope Appearance Filed Limited Appearance Form For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/19/2023
10/19/2023	Memorandum/Brief Filed MEMORANDUM REGARDING POSSIBLE DISQUALIFICATION OR SANCTIONS Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/19/2023

 

[sunshineray]

Given the tussle over the SW and presumably the evidence gathered therefrom, I can’t help but wonder what else is there which we can’t infer from a simple list that is maybe lying deeper within. Maybe this is something that the P have had and the D only just discovered from testing the items recovered, eg like the phones. Could be things like location data, search history, messages etc.

Like most of this stuff, and the various actions of both legal teams, I find it’s helpful to play it both ways to try to uncover what it might be or mean. It’s too easy to mislead yourself by trying to fit everything to a single fixed conclusion. The mental gymnastics often required just won’t be credible when you stand back and look at it.

But is there something possibly damning within those recovered items and what could it be?

Time stamped location? The man would have to be a moron to have his phone with him when contemplating murder though...unless it really was a totally spur of the moment decision that overtook common sense?

 

[abams]

Docket update

So is the accused currently represented or not? I'm still of the opinion that removing counsel from a defendant being held pre-trial in prison seems like a disproportionate remedy, one that places an unfair burden on a defendant for something they had no control over. I would imagine this whole sideshow has produced a few issues that will be raised on appeal.

 

[Bergmann]

Time stamped location? The man would have to be a moron to have his phone with him when contemplating murder though...unless it really was a totally spur of the moment decision that overtook common sense?

Well he said he was looking at stocks on his phone so hopefully this could be in some way either verified or disproved. Is his phone active and giving a location from say 12 till 4pm etc.

Or is it turned off for a period of time?

All unknowns at this point.

 

[sunshineray]

I suppose this is what I am uncomfortable with

It seems the judge had scheduled a hearing to hear arguments on sanctions. Why else would Baldwin have his own counsel who was filing a motion in response to what exactly?

This was also then to televised??? Perhaps because it was going to be a different hearing originally????

Then the whole hearing happened in chambers with still no official record of anything filed.

And the defendant has no counsel.

This strikes me as highly unsatisfactory. Why was Baldwin not required to make his application for removal in court so at least that would be on the record? And then the matter adjourned for Rozzi to make a similar application?

Instead the judge simply appeared to tell us her cryptic version of what happened.

What could be so urgent that Baldwin had to leave in such an informal manner? Why not make him at least file his application?

And why was the defendant not heard? Surely defendant should have been asked whether he agreed to release Baldwin?

This is a hot mess IMO

Maybe preliminary investigation by LE uncovered electronic signatures of not just MW but B as well? Depending on content, it could have been urgent, for the defendant's sake, to immediately cut his ties to council? Like you said though, isn't that done publically and by the attorney in court? Makes one think whatever the details are they must have been explosive. AJMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have yet to understand how the judge handles sealed documents. It was an assumption of mine that the entries we see in the docket are available to the public to either see or buy and the sealed ones are not visible to us.

Since we've seen the other 2 filings on this date but not this one, I'm going to guess it's sealed.

10/19/2023

Affidavit Filed Affidavit Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Date: 10/18/2023

Remember we didn't have anything released for a loooooong time, everything was sealed. Judge Gull released a lot at one time way back when, but not all. I think it's up to her discretion as to which ones remain sealed.

JMO

EBM: added word for clarity

 

[girlhasnoname]

I’ve thought that is this. It repeats much the same content as Hennesy’s memorandum but he’s not representing RA.

Richard Allen defends his attorneys in Delphi murders evidence leak

The man facing trial in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German wants to keep his attorneys, despite a leak of evidence.

www.wishtv.com

“INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man facing charges in the Delphi double murder, wants a judge to allow him to keep his current attorneys despite a leak of evidence in the case.

Allen made the request in a court filing Thursday morning ahead of a scheduled 2pm court hearing.….

…In Thursday’s filing, Allen argues he has “developed a strong and trusting bond with Mr. Baldwin,” and that removing Baldwin from the case would “greatly prejudice his right to counsel and a timely trial.”….”

Another indication to me that this action was more egregious than we know.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

One of the documents was filed "for" Richard Allen and two were filed "by" Richard Allen. Through the docket, RA's atty motions are filed "by Richard Allen" but by not him personally.

10/19/2023	Affidavit Filed Affidavit Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Date: 10/18/2023
10/19/2023	Temporary/Limited Scope Appearance Filed Limited Appearance Form For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/19/2023
10/19/2023	Memorandum/Brief Filed MEMORANDUM REGARDING POSSIBLE DISQUALIFICATION OR SANCTIONS Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/19/2023

So they filed a temporary and limited scope appearance for their client BEFORE court began that day? That sounds like they knew dang well their client would be without representative shortly after court started and therefore would be leaving soon after?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Time stamped location? The man would have to be a moron to have his phone with him when contemplating murder though...unless it really was a totally spur of the moment decision that overtook common sense?

Thankfully it happens a lot, look at the Kohberger, ID Case. Criminals, they're just not that smart after all.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

So is the accused currently represented or not? I'm still of the opinion that removing counsel from a defendant being held pre-trial in prison seems like a disproportionate remedy, one that places an unfair burden on a defendant for something they had no control over. I would imagine this whole sideshow has produced a few issues that will be raised on appeal.

Only GUILTY verdicts can be appealed.

 

[FrostedGlass]

So they filed a temporary and limited scope appearance for their client BEFORE court began that day? That sounds like they knew dang well their client would be without representative shortly after court started and therefore would be leaving soon after?

We should go back an review the filings. I didn't save them; do you have them?

 

[Megnut]

Well he said he was looking at stocks on his phone so hopefully this could be in some way either verified or disproved. Is his phone active and giving a location from say 12 till 4pm etc.

Or is it turned off for a period of time?

All unknowns at this point.

Perhaps he added that detail to answer a question. Akin to this:

LE: you admit to being there, we have cctv giving us a parktime. You say you saw a group of juveniles.... but we have juveniles and a lady who saw you, a lady who saw A and L.... so how did you manage not to see them?

RA: I was looking at stocks.

All because he's got himself in quite a time jam.

He really would've been wiser to say the girls passed him, asked him for directions.

But apparently he wanted to distance himself from them. Nope, didn't see them.

Except he would have had to.

Jmo

 

[Megnut]

Smart to remember too that we're only seen half of a second of Libby's video. RA doesn't know how much was captured. He knows what happened, but doesn't know when the video stopped and started.

And neither do we.

At a minimum, there's the encounter. There's the command. There's perhaps the appearance of a weapon and a racking. Further capture of either girl, her voice, and struggle, case closed. They got their man.

The only person with a motive to deny seeing them is The Last Person To See Them.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

So they filed a temporary and limited scope appearance for their client BEFORE court began that day? That sounds like they knew dang well their client would be without representative shortly after court started and therefore would be leaving soon after?

1. This appears to be just the form Hennessy filled out in order to represent AB.
Temporary/Limited Scope Appearance Filed
Limited Appearance Form
For Party: Allen, Richard M.

2. Here is the memo submitted by by Hennessy

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/Memo-Regarding-Possible-Disqualification-or-Sanctions-7.pdf

3. This might be AB's testimony stating what happened
10/19/2023
Affidavit Filed
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The judge's transport order doesn't name any defense attorneys.
She must have some lined up, though, since she put in the order. MOO

10/26/2023	Notice Issued Transport order e-mailed to Sheriff
10/26/2023	Notice Issued to Parties Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Carroll County Sheriff's Department

 

[MistyWaters]

The judge's transport order doesn't name any defense attorneys.
She must have some lined up, though, since she put in the order. MOO

10/26/2023	Notice Issued Transport order e-mailed to Sheriff
10/26/2023	Notice Issued to Parties Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Carroll County Sheriff's Department

This is great news! That it’s planned for RA to be transported to court on October 31st suggests he will have new attorneys present. Otherwise the hearing would be postponed or she would have to send him directly back to the prison once he arrived at the courthouse, similarly to what occurred at the non-hearing last week.