IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[Emma Peel]

Thank you for finding that. Interesting, at first I didn’t realize this interview took place some time ago, prior to the PC being released. I thought oh no, what about that gag order lol!

To me he seemed competent, level headed and refreshing as well…..what a fantastic concept, for defence attorneys to focus on creating doubt over the evidence …..and especially that we wasn’t criticizing the prosecution personally, something the old-D relied on as a consistent practise. I could be wrong but I don’t think Odinism will be resurrected.

There’s hope of this case moving forward!

Well ... we'll see who shows up.

(also, we'll see who shows up as to man-bun or just curly style)

And finally, defense better attack the prosecution.

 

[Bergmann]

MOO - I'm sure once the novelty over the new D has worn off, they'll become 'evil wicked people' too - lol.

 

[FrostedGlass]

MOO - I'm sure once the novelty over the new D has worn off, they'll become 'evil wicked people' too - lol.

They sure better be or I'll be thinking JG picked them because they were 'nice'

 

[MizStery]

requirements for the CCS

Thank-you FrostedGlass for posting this. I had not considered the procedural requirements for CCS. You always post links that are informative.

It Is important for each of us have the opportunity to use our critical thinking skills to consider this information. I really like the fact you have posted this and encouraged each of us to consider the official requirements for the Chronological Case Summary.

This is complex and I appreciate you are not a poster who does not foster group think.Now the hard part which is like preparing for blue book mid term.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I will admit I don’t understand. Do you have an issue with the case summary?

Not at all. There were some questions about the entries in mycase, which I believe is the CCS.
I'm just trying to get a handle on that part of the court system and thought it might be helpful to others.

 

[Emma Peel]

Not at all. There were some questions about the entries in mycase, which I believe is the CCS.
I'm just trying to get a handle on that part of the court system and thought it might be helpful to others.

we had a speed course yesterday - it was a CCS masterclass.

 

[TL4S]

MOO - I'm sure once the novelty over the new D has worn off, they'll become 'evil wicked people' too - lol.

I'll admit, this made me laugh. Honestly, from the very beginning, just about everyone involved in this case, at every step, on every level, has been criticized for being incompetent: CC Sheriff, ISP, FBI, NMcL, AB and BR, JG, and yeah, likely, eventually, the new D. If it's truly THAT bad, I need to give up on justice completely...

 

[Bergmann]

I'll admit, this made me laugh. Honestly, from the very beginning, just about everyone involved in this case, at every step, on every level, has been criticized for being incompetent: CC Sheriff, ISP, FBI, NMcL, AB and BR, JG, and yeah, likely, eventually, the new D. If it's truly THAT bad, I need to give up on justice completely...

This case has all the ingredients required for misjustice IMO.

In addition to the cast you mentioned -
Poor investigation, inconclusive evidence, weak case against RA, misconduct and incompetence, all the while some people pretend that this is all okay and normal.

I can't see this ending well.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thank-you FrostedGlass for posting this. I had not considered the procedural requirements for CCS. You always post links that are informative.

It Is important for each of us have the opportunity to use our critical thinking skills to consider this information. I really like the fact you have posted this and encouraged each of us to consider the official requirements for the Chronological Case Summary.

This is complex and I appreciate you are not a poster who does not foster group think.Now the hard part which is like preparing for blue book mid term.

Thanks for the kind words.

I have to go to Danville on Tuesday and that's where the county court house is located. I'm hoping to be able to use their computer so I can see if there is a difference between the CCS on their computer and my home computer. I also want to see if the hidden (from our view) entries are visible on their computer.

Since I never knew there was a Record of Judgments and Order, I'm making a note to see if that's available to the public to either view or purchase.

Which leads me to wonder how people with little spare money or no transportation have access to public records. I'll put that on my list of questions, too.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not at all. There were some questions about the entries in mycase, which I believe is the CCS.
I'm just trying to get a handle on that part of the court system and thought it might be helpful to others.

Okay but problem I think is mycase doesn’t present itself as an accurate case file. For example, it seems as if documents that are sealed don’t appear at all. And although an Order was posted indicating any ex-D motions after the date of dismissal be removed, whoever administers the website has done so yet so it’s unfair to hold that against the court.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

This case has all the ingredients required for misjustice IMO.

In addition to the cast you mentioned -
Poor investigation, inconclusive evidence, weak case against RA, misconduct and incompetence, all the while some people pretend that this is all okay and normal.

I can't see this ending well.

Hopefully, there is a lot more evidence that we don't know about, whether for or against RA, whichever it is. Hopefully, what appears as a weak, incompetent, and secretive case is actually a strong and intelligent investigation simply veiled behind necessary and reasonable sealings and gag orders. Hopefully, the misconduct only seems like misconduct, or we're misunderstanding it due to lack of transparency. IDK...

Hopefully, there will be phone records to help prove where RA was that day, at the time of the murders. If the FBI can place RL on his property at certain times, then maybe that kind of evidence exists for RA's phone, too. Hopefully, there is witness data from noon to 1:30pm on 2/13/17, so that there is no doubt what group of girls RA saw, and who saw him.

Hopefully, if ANYONE else is involved, in any capacity, they will be held accountable.

Hopefully, the families will eventually get whatever justice they can find some kind of finality in, to help them move on to the next chapter of their lives, difficult as it will be forever. Hopefully.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'll admit, this made me laugh. Honestly, from the very beginning, just about everyone involved in this case, at every step, on every level, has been criticized for being incompetent: CC Sheriff, ISP, FBI, NMcL, AB and BR, JG, and yeah, likely, eventually, the new D. If it's truly THAT bad, I need to give up on justice completely...

Whenever anything in the public eye comes down to that it says to me no small wonder schoolyard bullying is such a problem. Kids see adults making bullying comments toward others all the time, it flourishes in politics, from sports fans, and not all crime but definitely this case. The anonymity of SM has made it far worse because other people tend to follow drama.

I think both the judge and the prosecution was very wise to show concern over the grandstanding behaviour of the ex-D and the possible effects it would have on a future trial. If it created a mistrial or even if they created delays RA could potentially guarantee them future employment for many years (gravy train). JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Okay but problem I think is mycase doesn’t present itself as an accurate case file. For example, it seems as if documents that are sealed don’t appear at all. And although an Order was posted indicating any ex-D motions after the date of dismissal be removed, whoever administers the website has done so yet so it’s unfair to hold that against the court.

JMO

Not everything I post is up for debate.
I'm not holding anything against the court.
I'm only trying to learn where I have to go to see what I am entitled to see as an interested party.

If I find mycase is a fairly inaccurate record of the filings, then I'll have to re-consider all the hours I spend updating our cases.

From the link I posted:
• A CCS entry is never amended, corrected, or deleted once made. It may be amended only by another corrective CCS entry. Some courts, with written approval of the Office of Judicial Administration, post CCS entries on the Internet and it is especially important the previously created record in a case does not change from one day to the next.

 

[CGBSpender]

I'll admit, this made me laugh. Honestly, from the very beginning, just about everyone involved in this case, at every step, on every level, has been criticized for being incompetent: CC Sheriff, ISP, FBI, NMcL, AB and BR, JG, and yeah, likely, eventually, the new D. If it's truly THAT bad, I need to give up on justice completely...

So true. One social media platform discussion I ended up observing at one point was lead by at least one associate of a political lobbyist from another State spreading false information against members of the opposite political party and other public employees involved in the case. It’s gross how this case at times becomes hijacked at times for others with an agenda.

I don’t think any member of LE, the Courts, the Prosecutor, Defense Attorneys, Etc…actually enjoy being on this case. It is a nightmare of a case for all involved.

JMO

 

[Bergmann]

Hopefully, there is a lot more evidence that we don't know about, whether for or against RA, whichever it is. Hopefully, what appears as a weak, incompetent, and secretive case is actually a strong and intelligent investigation simply veiled behind necessary and reasonable sealings and gag orders. Hopefully, the misconduct only seems like misconduct, or we're misunderstanding it due to lack of transparency. IDK...

Hopefully, there will be phone records to help prove where RA was that day, at the time of the murders. If the FBI can place RL on his property at certain times, then maybe that kind of evidence exists for RA's phone, too. Hopefully, there is witness data from noon to 1:30pm on 2/13/17, so that there is no doubt what group of girls RA saw, and who saw him.

Hopefully, if ANYONE else is involved, in any capacity, they will be held accountable.

Hopefully, the families will eventually get whatever justice they can find some kind of finality in, to help them move on to the next chapter of their lives, difficult as it will be forever. Hopefully.

I would settle for a scenario where the case against RA is settled with overwhelming evidence of guilt and everyone can move on.

I don’t see it, but I understand your hopefulness.

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting that according to Rozzis own filing the Judge was annoyed about the Franks memo.

Not surprising.

Really glad these 2 guys are off the case. I felt that was wildly unprofessional. I am still deeply suss about the discovery leaks. How does it happen that some mate is getting heavy access to the case files.

iMO Gull should now also recuse and all is well

 

[MistyWaters]

Hopefully, there is a lot more evidence that we don't know about, whether for or against RA, whichever it is. Hopefully, what appears as a weak, incompetent, and secretive case is actually a strong and intelligent investigation simply veiled behind necessary and reasonable sealings and gag orders. Hopefully, the misconduct only seems like misconduct, or we're misunderstanding it due to lack of transparency. IDK...

Hopefully, there will be phone records to help prove where RA was that day, at the time of the murders. If the FBI can place RL on his property at certain times, then maybe that kind of evidence exists for RA's phone, too. Hopefully, there is witness data from noon to 1:30pm on 2/13/17, so that there is no doubt what group of girls RA saw, and who saw him.

Hopefully, if ANYONE else is involved, in any capacityg, they will be held accountable.

Hopefully, the families will eventually get whatever justice they can find some kind of finality in, to help them move on to the next chapter of their lives, difficult as it will be forever. Hopefully.

Other than the defense attorneys, I haven’t noticed anybody in any official capacity with the benefit of professional and expert knowledge of Indiana procedure is alleging judicial misconduct. If violations occur, it’s not going to go unnoticed, that’s for sure. This case has gone well beyond a handful of people following it here on WS.

But to me the turn this case has taken is ironic. The Judge dismissed the defense attorneys due to their misconduct (gross negligence) with specific issues prepared in writing that she’d planned to present later at the hearing. They balked at that as they perceived this to be ”public shaming”, which is their right. Instead they withdrew, which they admitted. They were already ordered off RA‘s case Oct 12th so it can’t be believed these latest events took them by total surprise. Their known violations were piling up. The judge’s only alternative to ensure transparency would’ve been to catch them off guard and publicly dismiss (shame?) them in from of the cameras and RA. IMO she left them with a shred of dignity which they don’t deserve and she’s even been criticized by some for doing so.

I have a funny picture in my mind of the ex-D being handcuffed, mouth taped shut with duct tape, and dragged kicking into the court room, just so the judge could dismiss them in open court but hey, transparency occurred.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBM and bolded. What do you think that agenda is?

... It’s gross how this case at times becomes hijacked at times for others with an agenda.

I don’t think any member of LE, the Courts, the Prosecutor, Defense Attorneys, Etc…actually enjoy being on this case. It is a nightmare of a case for all involved.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

It’s obvious the Defence knew the nature of the hearing because they filed the affidavit from additional counsel arguing to be kept on. Ditto the state had witnesses.

That part is hard to believe

I do wonder if we are going to find there is no transcript of the discussions in chambers.

 

[CGBSpender]

They sure better be or I'll be thinking JG picked them because they were 'nice'

Somehow I doubt the defense lawyers were lining up to take on this nightmare of a case at court appointed counsel rates. There is more than enough other work these days to keep them from starving and allow them to be picky. Godspeed to these two guys…I feel like they are doing JG a huge favor for agreeing to sign up for this.

JMO