Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[JudgeJudi]

I just saw an interesting video filmed shortly prior to the one year anniversary of the girls' death. Megyn Kelly interviewed the families of both girls and State Supt. Doug Carter. He believes "that a person who would commit a crime like this, with such incredibly evil intent, likely has committed that crime before, and with that known, he will likely commit it again. Disregard the face and look at the body because anybody could identify a family member by looking at the body. That’s what I’m asking. There were no other eyewitnesses who saw him".

I've never heard anyone from LE say to disregard the face before. If that's the case, obviously they have no confidence regarding the accuracy of the sketch.

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I just saw an interesting video filmed shortly prior to the one year anniversary of the girls' death. Megyn Kelly interviewed the families of both girls and State Supt. Doug Carter. He believes "that a person who would commit a crime like this, with such incredibly evil intent, likely has committed that crime before, and with that known, he will likely commit it again. Disregard the face and look at the body because anybody could identify a family member by looking at the body. That’s what I’m asking. There were no other eyewitnesses who saw him".

I've never heard anyone from LE say to disregard the face before. If that's the case, obviously they have no confidence regarding the accuracy of the sketch.

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

bbm
"Disregard the face" - that's a problem, if we only have a face (think of the sketch!) and nothing more. Why don't we have detailed information about this person , from head to feet so-to-say, who was seen by witnesses? We have the video stills, yes. But who says, it is 100% the same man? Not even the clothes are matching completely.

 

[TheVisual]

An entire thread was devoted to images including BG’s appearance.

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

This is one of two original LE photos posted on that thread.

View attachment 155068

Every single item of clothing was analysed to death. There were photography experts on the thread who used special techniques to try and establish conclusively what he looked like and what he was wearing underneath his jacket. He definitely isn't wearing anything white. It's a black top. Look underneath his chin and you'll see something that looks like a question mark. Many posters thought this was some sort of image imprinted on his top, some thought he was carrying rope, others thought it was white plastic handles of some sort of bag. The speculation was endless.

Unfortunately, LE enlarged the image and that distorted the pixels IIRC, so that when we tried to enhance it further, there was a lot of distortion.

The meat packing plant was also discussed a lot ... that perhaps he worked there and that's how he knew the area. Others thought he may have lived in the area as a young person. Unless you knew the bridge was there, you would be unaware of its existence. Everyone had a theory which we went over with a fine toothcomb.

Thank you for sharing your friend's theory but let me assure you, there's not one single thing that I can think of that hasn't been discussed including whether he had a car parked nearby and perhaps an accomplice who was waiting with the car. All possible exit points were canvassed too. The thing that is still driving everybody insane is LE, the FBI and everyone else believes BG is the killer but despite having a photo and audio, STILL no-one recognises him. The very fact that we have 85 threads shows how much input there has been but we're nowhere nearer working this out.

 

[TheVisual]

I'm going to put something out here that I have been looking at during the months we were closed down. Please don't crucify me for doing so. I want you to go to the Image discussion page and look at something. On page 13 (post 257)Michael Gartley(image expert) put on the three images of BG and ran them through filters etc. If you'll notice the middle photo is ghostlike. When you run the pictures of BG's steps you'll see something on his left leg. I believe this could be a two lead leash for walking two dogs. Now I know most of you don't believe there is a dog in his jacket but I think there is a possibility he has a dog somewhere. Rabbit hunters(using dogs to rout out rabbits) sling their leashes around their shoulder when they are not using it. Also look at WebSight's photo of BG on page 49(post 969)She was working with her daughter and placed BG in a spot where her was(no messing with the image itself) You'll notice the leash pulled back by his hip and he is probably holding it with a finger where his hand is in his pocket. You can clearly see the ring of the leash and the two leads hanging down. JMO but I would like yours.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I'm going to put something out here that I have been looking at during the months we were closed down. Please don't crucify me for doing so. I want you to go to the Image discussion page and look at something. On page 13 (post 257)Michael Gartley(image expert) put on the three images of BG and ran them through filters etc. If you'll notice the middle photo is ghostlike. When you run the pictures of BG's steps you'll see something on his left leg. I believe this could be a two lead leash for walking two dogs. Now I know most of you don't believe there is a dog in his jacket but I think there is a possibility he has a dog somewhere. Rabbit hunters(using dogs to rout out rabbits) sling their leashes around their shoulder when they are not using it. Also look at WebSight's photo of BG on page 49(post 969)She was working with her daughter and placed BG in a spot where her was(no messing with the image itself) You'll notice the leash pulled back by his hip and he is probably holding it with a finger where his hand is in his pocket. You can clearly see the ring of the leash and the two leads hanging down. JMO but I would like yours.

I am interested in seeing this.
Where can I find the image discussion page?

 

[kc1023]

I'm going to put something out here that I have been looking at during the months we were closed down. Please don't crucify me for doing so. I want you to go to the Image discussion page and look at something. On page 13 (post 257)Michael Gartley(image expert) put on the three images of BG and ran them through filters etc. If you'll notice the middle photo is ghostlike. When you run the pictures of BG's steps you'll see something on his left leg. I believe this could be a two lead leash for walking two dogs. Now I know most of you don't believe there is a dog in his jacket but I think there is a possibility he has a dog somewhere. Rabbit hunters(using dogs to rout out rabbits) sling their leashes around their shoulder when they are not using it. Also look at WebSight's photo of BG on page 49(post 969)She was working with her daughter and placed BG in a spot where her was(no messing with the image itself) You'll notice the leash pulled back by his hip and he is probably holding it with a finger where his hand is in his pocket. You can clearly see the ring of the leash and the two leads hanging down. JMO but I would like yours.

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi Pg 13, Post 257

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi Pg 49, Post 969

I hope that worked!

 

[TheVisual]

I am interested in seeing this.
Where can I find the image discussion page?

On page one of every thread there is a list of Maps, Image discussion, etc. Just click on the Image thread. Thanks, KC1023 for giving a link to the pictures

 

[Falling Down]

I am interested in seeing this.
Where can I find the image discussion page?

Here:

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Early this year I started to wonder what the white thing is underneath BG's chin. Note how it doesn't change much in "shape" in the three images. Thus it can't be a plastic grocery sack handle, he's on top of a viaduct/bridge, on a day where it was reported that there were breezes of around 13 mph. The 'thing' just doesn't change shape, but it appears to be three-dimensional, which is where I agree with folks who analyzed and scrutinized the images last year. Folks thought it was something on his shirt, or what have you. I've said all along that he's wearing upwards of three layers of clothing, including the outer shell jacket, my guess would be he's wearing a tactical vest of some sort as one of the layers.

My theory is that BG used some type of tool as a choke collar for at least one of the girls. If I had to hazard a guess, he pulled the white thing out a little as he came across the bridge, and that it may be part of a common tool used in various maintenance and repair situations, mainly industrial. If you look along the center line of BG roughly to the left (his right) of the center of the jacket, you can see the outline of something. It's bothered me since early on in the case, what could it possibly be? That outline leads up to the white thing under the chin.

After looking through hundreds of images, this is the only thing I can think of that it might be:

I've used these in the past, it's a common tool with many uses. A strap wrench. That nylon web material is the same as what is used in many applications, in fact the belt I wear all the time is of the same material.

I've seen strap wrenches with various colored handles and straps, but mainly gray or black handles, with maybe a gray or white strap. The nylon stretches some over time, so the strap would be more pliable.

The tang or tab on that handle is where a lot of pressure is applied. Just imagine that being around your neck, snug, and every time you move a certain way or someone controlling you does something to increase the pressure from the tang, the strap tightens. Only way to loosen it is to turn the handle some, while whatever it is around remains stationary, and then gently put the strap back through the handle. Also the tool weighs maybe a pound or a little more, the handle is 12" in length on that one. So it could afford a perp 1) Distance, with the aluminum handle, and 2) Control. He could have used such a tool as a light weapon, too, to hit with, to stun a victim.

MOO is BG used this type of tool on Abby, as she was closest to him on the bridge, and her hair was up that day. He could have gotten close to her, pivoted and then closed the distance, then put this tool around her neck.

We've all wondered how he got control of the girls. I think this may be part of the answer.

MOO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi Pg 13, Post 257

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi Pg 49, Post 969

I hope that worked!

It worked! Thank you.
Unfortunately, try as I might, I cannot see what is being described by TheVisual.

SOMETHING prompted Libby to film this guy...what the hell was it?

 

[TheVisual]

Another thought. In the picture put out by LE/FBI originally did THEY highlight the gun in his pocket? It doesn't seem logical that the gun would stick out like that on its own. (unless they did it on purpose to emphasize the gun) I also see next to it the remote control for a wireless dog collar. The antenna on it sticks up to the left of the gun in BG's pocket. Could the black curved mark across BG's face near his mouth be the antenna from the dogs electronic collar? JMO

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I just saw an interesting video filmed shortly prior to the one year anniversary of the girls' death. Megyn Kelly interviewed the families of both girls and State Supt. Doug Carter. He believes "that a person who would commit a crime like this, with such incredibly evil intent, likely has committed that crime before, and with that known, he will likely commit it again. Disregard the face and look at the body because anybody could identify a family member by looking at the body. That’s what I’m asking. There were no other eyewitnesses who saw him".

I've never heard anyone from LE say to disregard the face before. If that's the case, obviously they have no confidence regarding the accuracy of the sketch.

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

Hi Judi,

JMO, I always thought the “disregard the face and look at the body” comment meant a family member or friend could recognize someone by the way they stood or walked without seeing their face. IIRC there was discussion before the thread was shut down about how posters could recognize someone they knew well who was approaching from a distance before they were able to make out their facial features. While there has been infinite discussion of the sketch, I think the ability to recognize someone based on seeing their body without being able to make out their face is what the implication was. JMO.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Here:

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Early this year I started to wonder what the white thing is underneath BG's chin. Note how it doesn't change much in "shape" in the three images. Thus it can't be a plastic grocery sack handle, he's on top of a viaduct/bridge, on a day where it was reported that there were breezes of around 13 mph. The 'thing' just doesn't change shape, but it appears to be three-dimensional, which is where I agree with folks who analyzed and scrutinized the images last year. Folks thought it was something on his shirt, or what have you. I've said all along that he's wearing upwards of three layers of clothing, including the outer shell jacket, my guess would be he's wearing a tactical vest of some sort as one of the layers.

My theory is that BG used some type of tool as a choke collar for at least one of the girls. If I had to hazard a guess, he pulled the white thing out a little as he came across the bridge, and that it may be part of a common tool used in various maintenance and repair situations, mainly industrial. If you look along the center line of BG roughly to the left (his right) of the center of the jacket, you can see the outline of something. It's bothered me since early on in the case, what could it possibly be? That outline leads up to the white thing under the chin.

After looking through hundreds of images, this is the only thing I can think of that it might be:

I've used these in the past, it's a common tool with many uses. A strap wrench. That nylon web material is the same as what is used in many applications, in fact the belt I wear all the time is of the same material.

I've seen strap wrenches with various colored handles and straps, but mainly gray or black handles, with maybe a gray or white strap. The nylon stretches some over time, so the strap would be more pliable.

The tang or tab on that handle is where a lot of pressure is applied. Just imagine that being around your neck, snug, and every time you move a certain way or someone controlling you does something to increase the pressure from the tang, the strap tightens. Only way to loosen it is to turn the handle some, while whatever it is around remains stationary, and then gently put the strap back through the handle. Also the tool weighs maybe a pound or a little more, the handle is 12" in length on that one. So it could afford a perp 1) Distance, with the aluminum handle, and 2) Control. He could have used such a tool as a light weapon, too, to hit with, to stun a victim.

MOO is BG used this type of tool on Abby, as she was closest to him on the bridge, and her hair was up that day. He could have gotten close to her, pivoted and then closed the distance, then put this tool around her neck.

We've all wondered how he got control of the girls. I think this may be part of the answer.

MOO

OMG, Falling Down!!!
This post is thought provoking and completely unnerving to me at the same time. I might not get to sleep tonight! You very well might be onto something. Great post!!!
-RIP M+J

 

[dreamwarrior66]

Bravo for standing up for the victims and reopening this thread.

 

[Hazelnutty]

So good to see Abby + Libby's thread active again.

Curious if the $200,000 + reward is still being offered.

Hoping someone comes forward with solid info soon.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here:

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Early this year I started to wonder what the white thing is underneath BG's chin. Note how it doesn't change much in "shape" in the three images. Thus it can't be a plastic grocery sack handle, he's on top of a viaduct/bridge, on a day where it was reported that there were breezes of around 13 mph. The 'thing' just doesn't change shape, but it appears to be three-dimensional, which is where I agree with folks who analyzed and scrutinized the images last year. Folks thought it was something on his shirt, or what have you. I've said all along that he's wearing upwards of three layers of clothing, including the outer shell jacket, my guess would be he's wearing a tactical vest of some sort as one of the layers.

My theory is that BG used some type of tool as a choke collar for at least one of the girls. If I had to hazard a guess, he pulled the white thing out a little as he came across the bridge, and that it may be part of a common tool used in various maintenance and repair situations, mainly industrial. If you look along the center line of BG roughly to the left (his right) of the center of the jacket, you can see the outline of something. It's bothered me since early on in the case, what could it possibly be? That outline leads up to the white thing under the chin.

After looking through hundreds of images, this is the only thing I can think of that it might be:

I've used these in the past, it's a common tool with many uses. A strap wrench. That nylon web material is the same as what is used in many applications, in fact the belt I wear all the time is of the same material.

I've seen strap wrenches with various colored handles and straps, but mainly gray or black handles, with maybe a gray or white strap. The nylon stretches some over time, so the strap would be more pliable.

The tang or tab on that handle is where a lot of pressure is applied. Just imagine that being around your neck, snug, and every time you move a certain way or someone controlling you does something to increase the pressure from the tang, the strap tightens. Only way to loosen it is to turn the handle some, while whatever it is around remains stationary, and then gently put the strap back through the handle. Also the tool weighs maybe a pound or a little more, the handle is 12" in length on that one. So it could afford a perp 1) Distance, with the aluminum handle, and 2) Control. He could have used such a tool as a light weapon, too, to hit with, to stun a victim.

MOO is BG used this type of tool on Abby, as she was closest to him on the bridge, and her hair was up that day. He could have gotten close to her, pivoted and then closed the distance, then put this tool around her neck.

We've all wondered how he got control of the girls. I think this may be part of the answer.

MOO

Hi Falling Down, and welcome to WS.

Thank you for this, it's great. I think it's the best theory I've seen so far and it would make so much sense to use such a tool.

Many people thought he was wearing a vest underneath the jacket and said that's where a gun was. However, a member took photos of her husband wearing 2 different kinds of vest and the gun didn't stay in a horizontal position. Did you see the image where someone outlined the gun in green? If it is a gun, and it certainly looks like one, that suggests that BG is left-handed.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi Judi,

JMO, I always thought the “disregard the face and look at the body” comment meant a family member or friend could recognize someone by the way they stood or walked without seeing their face. IIRC there was discussion before the thread was shut down about how posters could recognize someone they knew well who was approaching from a distance before they were able to make out their facial features. While there has been infinite discussion of the sketch, I think the ability to recognize someone based on seeing their body without being able to make out their face is what the implication was. JMO.

Hi, and welcome to WS.

Yes, I agree. I think it's a great pity that, for whatever reason, LE chose not to release even 2 or 3 seconds of him walking. I can recognise my husband if he's at the far end of a street just by his gait. It's not odd or unusual but it's distinctive enough for me.

As for his clothes, I think the general consensus was that many men living in that part of the state dress like BG. Because of the looseness of his jeans, most thought he was older, perhaps in his 40s IIRC. I go along with that.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It worked! Thank you.
Unfortunately, try as I might, I cannot see what is being described by TheVisual.

SOMETHING prompted Libby to film this guy...what the hell was it?

Gosh, I'm having to rely a lot on memory for these posts.

I can't remember who said it but it was suggested that when the girls first saw him he was a looong way behind them, and then he must have really hurried to start catching up with them. This is what was said to have alarmed Libby, and obviously her fears were realised.

 

[Betty P]

I just saw an interesting video filmed shortly prior to the one year anniversary of the girls' death. Megyn Kelly interviewed the families of both girls and State Supt. Doug Carter. He believes "that a person who would commit a crime like this, with such incredibly evil intent, likely has committed that crime before, and with that known, he will likely commit it again. Disregard the face and look at the body because anybody could identify a family member by looking at the body. That’s what I’m asking. There were no other eyewitnesses who saw him".

I've never heard anyone from LE say to disregard the face before. If that's the case, obviously they have no confidence regarding the accuracy of the sketch.

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

BBM

Thanks, JudgeJudi, that's a good excerpt. It's such important information for the public to consider. LE wants everyone to know that this killer had probably sexually molested or stalked victims before. It's so important for any victims, anyone who had a close call with this person or saw someone like him behaving or talking suspiciously to contact LE with that information. Whether a creepy co-worker, neighbor or relative or a suspicious man seen stalking or attempting to abduct others, anyone who has encountered him needs to call LE, even if it happened 3 or 5 or more years ago. How about the creepy neighbor, relative or housemate who looks similar to the photo and collects *advertiser censored*?

Even if someone is a past victim and reported him to LE, if the photo looks familiar, call LE again and ask them if your perp has been investigated in Abby & Libby's case. This is how Jacob Wetterling's killer was finally brought to justice, with help from previous victims. The killer had been living less than 60 miles away, continuing to stalk kids and collecting child *advertiser censored*. Don't assume LE has already checked out the person who attacked you. Call and make sure they've followed up enough to rule them out.

ETA: Also, don't assume this person was on foot during previous stalking or similar sexual crimes. He has a car or truck and probably does some of his stalking from his vehicle.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi Betty, I thought I'd go back and look at the image thread briefly ... that was probably an hour ago now. It's so interesting.

I brought one of the pics of BG over from the Images thread. It shows his face a lot better than most.

 

[Betty P]

Hi Betty, I thought I'd go back and look at the image thread briefly ... that was probably an hour ago now. It's so interesting.

Yes, it's very interesting. I think LE is wanting to encourage the public to do more than look at minute details of the perp and instead "translate" that image into someone they've seen in real life. What if there's someone out there who knows the perp and suspects him of the crime, but hasn't called LE because there's something in the photo or sketch that doesn't quite match?