Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[JudgeJudi]

I just added a pic of BG to my last post because of his face. I know LE want us to look at the body as opposed to the face, but without movement I'm not sure many people would identify him.

I agree with your comment.

While on that thread I noticed that people saw a puppy, terrier or a goat under his jacket.

 

[TheVisual]

It worked! Thank you.
Unfortunately, try as I might, I cannot see what is being described by TheVisual.

SOMETHING prompted Libby to film this guy...what the hell was it?

Even though this sounds like possibility, the white thing has too much density to be that and it moves as he walks in the three pictures.

 

[Betty P]

I just added a pic of BG to my last post because of his face. I know LE want us to look at the body as opposed to the face, but without movement I'm not sure many people would identify him.

I agree with your comment.

While on that thread I noticed that people saw a puppy, terrier or a goat under his jacket.

 

[margarita25]

Even though this sounds like possibility, the white thing has too much density to be that and it moves as he walks in the three pictures.

It’s rope imo.

 

[Falling Down]

Members are wondering what might have caused some alarm for the girls.

My theory is they passed him on the trail, or he was on the adjacent trail where it splits off from the trailhead, up close to C.R. 300. So they saw him.I've also considered the time of year, plenty of visibility through woods which during the warmer months would be overgrown.

Then BG proceeds to head back towards the bridge, making sure nobody was behind him. So I picture him repeatedly looking back towards the bend in the trail, back towards the parking area and trailhead, as he's walking towards the bridge. They may not have noticed that yes, indeed, he's the same guy they'd seen say 20-25 minutes earlier until he was on the far end of the bridge (relative to where they were).

I can picture what objects at 600 feet looks like from a distance, hard to make out familiar people and whatnot. The bridge is 850 feet long. I'd imagine A&L were somewhere between 600-700 feet along on the bridge when he got on it. It would take roughly 4 or so minutes to cross it, being mindful of the bad condition of the bridge (stepping over missing sections, etc.).

If they'd already passed him, why would he be heading back towards the bridge? Last I checked the bridge (not the trail) is still CSX property, in fact people are not supposed to be on it, but at any rate technically the trail ends at the bridge. On the other side is private property. It appears that a lot of folks walk to the bridge and then turn around.

Locals would know much of what is around the bridge is private property, and maybe some folks who have poked around maps which are available online.

I think anybody familiar with the bridge and trail would be suspicious of someone they'd seen earlier on the trail, later get on the bridge to walk all the way across. Not half-way, not 1/4 of the way. All the way across. Besides. what is on the other side? Private property. My hunch is BG was waiting for A) Someone to walk the entire length of the bridge, and B) For there to be no one behind him on the trail.

MOO is he was there for roughly 3 hours, waiting for his prey.

(Edit)

Why would this grown adult be out there that day, just snooping around, and later gets on the bridge to walk the entire length of it? There's just a private driveway to a house on the other side. Where was he going? We all know the answer, and I think A&L knew something was up when he didn't turn around on the bridge.

The private drive leads slightly up hill and around a bend to a nice property. The owner happened to be in Florida when this happened. Going the other way, the private drive becomes C.R. 625.

The guy seemed suspicious, so Libby had the presence of mind to record him.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

Members are wondering what might have caused some alarm for the girls.

My theory is they passed him on the trail, or he was on the adjacent trail where it splits off from the trailhead, up close to C.R. 300. So they saw him.I've also considered the time of year, plenty of visibility through woods which during the warmer months would be overgrown.

Then BG proceeds to head back towards the bridge, making sure nobody was behind him. So I picture him repeatedly looking back towards the bend in the trail, back towards the parking area and trailhead, as he's walking towards the bridge. They may not have noticed that yes, indeed, he's the same guy they'd seen say 20-25 minutes earlier until he was on the far end of the bridge (relative to where they were).

I can picture what objects at 600 feet looks like from a distance, hard to make out familiar people and whatnot. The bridge is 850 feet long. I'd imagine A&L were somewhere between 600-700 feet along on the bridge when he got on it. It would take roughly 4 or so minutes to cross it, being mindful of the bad condition of the bridge (stepping over missing sections, etc.).

If they'd already passed him, why would he be heading back towards the bridge? Last I checked the bridge (not the trail) is still CSX property, in fact people are not supposed to be on it, but at any rate technically the trail ends at the bridge. On the other side is private property. It appears that a lot of folks walk to the bridge and then turn around.

Locals would know much of what is around the bridge is private property, and maybe some folks who have poked around maps which are available online.

I think anybody familiar with the bridge and trail would be suspicious of someone they'd seen earlier on the trail, later get on the bridge to walk all the way across. Not half-way, not 1/4 of the way. All the way across. Besides. what is on the other side? Private property. My hunch is BG was waiting for A) Someone to walk the entire length of the bridge, and B) For there to be no one behind him on the trail.

MOO is he was there for roughly 3 hours, waiting for his prey.

(Edit)

Why would this grown adult be out there that day, just snooping around, and later gets on the bridge to walk the entire length of it? There's just a private driveway to a house on the other side. Where was he going? We all know the answer, and I think A&L knew something was up when he didn't turn around on the bridge.

The private drive leads slightly up hill and around a bend to a nice property. The owner happened to be in Florida when this happened. Going the other way, the private drive becomes C.R. 625.

The guy seemed suspicious, so Libby had the presence of mind to record him.

MOO

All good points. Many also suspect he may have picked up his pace as he walked across the bridge, trying to get closer to the girls. There was probably something in his body language as well that made them suspicious.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

An entire thread was devoted to images including BG’s appearance.

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

This is one of two original LE photos posted on that thread.

View attachment 155068

Every single item of clothing was analysed to death. There were photography experts on the thread who used special techniques to try and establish conclusively what he looked like and what he was wearing underneath his jacket. He definitely isn't wearing anything white. It's a black top. Look underneath his chin and you'll see something that looks like a question mark. Many posters thought this was some sort of image imprinted on his top, some thought he was carrying rope, others thought it was white plastic handles of some sort of bag. The speculation was endless.

Unfortunately, LE enlarged the image and that distorted the pixels IIRC, so that when we tried to enhance it further, there was a lot of distortion.

The meat packing plant was also discussed a lot ... that perhaps he worked there and that's how he knew the area. Others thought he may have lived in the area as a young person. Unless you knew the bridge was there, you would be unaware of its existence. Everyone had a theory which we went over with a fine toothcomb.

Thank you for sharing your friend's theory but let me assure you, there's not one single thing that I can think of that hasn't been discussed including whether he had a car parked nearby and perhaps an accomplice who was waiting with the car. All possible exit points were canvassed too. The thing that is still driving everybody insane is LE, the FBI and everyone else believes BG is the killer but despite having a photo and audio, STILL no-one recognises him. The very fact that we have 85 threads shows how much input there has been but we're nowhere nearer working this out.

Thanks for your thoughts JudgeJudi! Trust me...I've read the vast majority of posts and discussions, just thought I'd throw my friend's speculation into the mix. I agree that LE is the biggest frustration. I just don't understand their strategy here. They beg for the public's help, but give the public no information to base anything on. I also think they thought with a picture and audio clip this would be solved quickly. I fear that unless someone calls them up and says, "I know the guy on the bridge and his name is Blah Blah", this case won't ever be solved. Thanks again!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thanks for your thoughts JudgeJudi! Trust me...I've read the vast majority of posts and discussions, just thought I'd throw my friend's speculation into the mix. I agree that LE is the biggest frustration. I just don't understand their strategy here. They beg for the public's help, but give the public no information to base anything on. I also think they thought with a picture and audio clip this would be solved quickly. I fear that unless someone calls them up and says, "I know the guy on the bridge and his name is Blah Blah", this case won't ever be solved. Thanks again!

I suspect BG did something as soon as he caught up to Abby that caused Libby to stop filming and rush towards her in order to help. Things then turned nasty. LE has said a number of times they're only missing one piece of the puzzle. I don’t get that impression from what I’ve read but we know virtually nothing.

Perhaps LE does have quite a bit of circumstantial evidence which may well include DNA. However, DNA alone isn’t enough on its own because it’s so easily contaminated and a defence team would bring it into serious doubt. DNA needs to be supported by other evidence and whatever they have at the moment obviously isn't strong enough. Because LE desperately want to secure a conviction, they won’t prosecute until they know they have a good chance of winning.

If the state eventually allows familial DNA and genealogy websites such as GEDmatch, the chances of catching BG will rise, but as it stands they can only use CODIS and he’s obviously not on it.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I suspect BG does something as soon as he’s next to Abby that causes Libby to stop filming and rush towards Abby in order to help her. Things then turn nasty. LE has said a number of times they're only missing one piece of the puzzle. I don’t get that impression from what I’ve read but we know virtually nothing. Perhaps LE does have quite a bit of circumstantial evidence which may well include DNA. However, DNA alone isn’t enough because it’s so easily contaminated and a defence team would bring it into serious doubt. DNA needs to be supported by other evidence and whatever they have may just not be strong enough on its own. Because LE desperately want to secure a conviction, they won’t prosecute until they know they have a good chance of winning.

If the state eventually allows familial DNA and genealogy websites such as GEDmatch, the chances of catching BG will rise, but as it stands they can only use CODIS and he’s obviously not on it.

 

[cailleach]

I suspect BG does something as soon as he’s next to Abby that causes Libby to stop filming and rush towards Abby in order to help her. Things then turn nasty. LE has said a number of times they're only missing one piece of the puzzle. I don’t get that impression from what I’ve read but we know virtually nothing. Perhaps LE does have quite a bit of circumstantial evidence which may well include DNA. However, DNA alone isn’t enough because it’s so easily contaminated and a defence team would bring it into serious doubt. DNA needs to be supported by other evidence and whatever they have may just not be strong enough on its own. Because LE desperately want to secure a conviction, they won’t prosecute until they know they have a good chance of winning.

If the state eventually allows familial DNA and genealogy websites such as GEDmatch, the chances of catching BG will rise, but as it stands they can only use CODIS and he’s obviously not on it.

@JudgeJudi, I always appreciate your thoughts on this site. I do wish the state would use GEDmatch on this case (and others of course). The idea that it could help solve this case makes you wonder why LE isn't doing literally everything possible to get information that will help them put the final pieces into place with enough confidence to prosecute. Cases like this are frustrating because people want to help so much but we just don't have enough information to work with, IMO.

 

[heartgoesout]

I've wondered if he was walking the other way on the bridge and then turned around to walk back to the girls. This would certainly prompt the recording, especially if he said something passing them, thought for a minute and then turned around.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I think the white things (near his collar, under his jacket) are plastic bag handles. This sounds out there, but he could have used it (IF it is a bag) to strangle or suffocate the girls. MOO

 

[sleuther0192837465]

@JudgeJudi, I always appreciate your thoughts on this site. I do wish the state would use GEDmatch on this case (and others of course). The idea that it could help solve this case makes you wonder why LE isn't doing literally everything possible to get information that will help them put the final pieces into place with enough confidence to prosecute. Cases like this are frustrating because people want to help so much but we just don't have enough information to work with, IMO.

They used it (GEDMatch)in the April Tinsley case, in Ft. Wayne, IN so it would not make sense if Delphi doesn’t UNLESS (IMO) Delphi does not have a good enough DNA sample OR they have none at all from BG. MOO

 

[Betty P]

They used it (GEDMatch)in the April Tinsley case, in Ft. Wayne, IN so it would not make sense if Delphi doesn’t UNLESS (IMO) Delphi does not have a good enough DNA sample OR they have none at all from BG. MOO

In an interview with Libby's grandparents linked back at the first page of this thread, it was said that LE does have DNA from the perp.

It's not known whether they've tried to do a match for familial DNA through public family trees.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

In an interview with Libby's grandparents linked back at the first page of this thread, it was said that LE does have DNA from the perp.

It's not known whether they've tried to do a match for familial DNA through public family trees.

I had not read that they had BG’s DNA. Only that they had DNA, like most crimes. They were working to see what type of DNA they had. If that’s the case, then LE most certainly should be trying the GEDMatch! I know it can be a long process, so here’s hoping they get a match! MOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

They used it (GEDMatch)in the April Tinsley case, in Ft. Wayne, IN so it would not make sense if Delphi doesn’t UNLESS (IMO) Delphi does not have a good enough DNA sample OR they have none at all from BG. MOO

Thank you so much for this sleuther. I even checked before I posted about GEDmatch and still didn't see Indiana was now one of the states using it. I'm unfamiliar with the April Tinsley case so that's probably how I missed this.

Golden State Killer DNA technology has been used in Indiana to provide the missing pieces that led police to arrest a man for the murder of April Tinsley. Two samples, each more than 30 years old, provided investigators with the name of a likely suspect.

How controversial DNA technology helped solve the April Tinsley cold case

What saddens me now is that it hasn’t helped establish who BG is. IIRC the lab was able to identify the Golden State Killer suspect in one or two days.

 

[Betty P]

On page 1 of every thread you can scroll down to the Discussion thread. To save some time, here's the link:

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Great reminder for everyone! Here's the relevant quote from mods on the first page of this thread:

Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA.

Libby's grandparents also mention it in this interview

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

 

[kizzykat]

I suspect BG does something as soon as he’s next to Abby that causes Libby to stop filming and rush towards Abby in order to help her. Things then turn nasty.

RSBM & BBM
Just a correction, Libby didn't stop filming:
“To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior, there’s no doubt in our minds that that young lady is a hero,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum. (1:02 mark in video at link below)

"Police said there is more audio that has not been released."
Police: Indiana Girl Recorded Audio Of Her Murder Suspect

And also Supt Carter's haunting comment about what LE saw on video:
"The recording was longer than what has been released. Police won’t release anymore to protect the integrity of the investigation, but they’ve seen the video and likely won’t be able to stop thinking about it.

“Imagine what that must be like, it’s generally and very likely will be one of the last things these ladies and gentleman see for the rest of their lives before they go to sleep,” said Carter.


News 18 asked, “Do you expect to release anything else from that video?”

Carter replied, “I hope we don’t have to, I hope what we’ve released is enough."

Delphi teen records suspect before her death; police hope it leads to arrest

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM & BBM
Just a correction, Libby didn't stop filming:
“To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior, there’s no doubt in our minds that that young lady is a hero,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum. (1:02 mark in video at link below)

"Police said there is more audio that has not been released."
Police: Indiana Girl Recorded Audio Of Her Murder Suspect

And also Supt Carter's haunting comment about what LE saw on video:
"The recording was longer than what has been released. Police won’t release anymore to protect the integrity of the investigation, but they’ve seen the video and likely won’t be able to stop thinking about it.

“Imagine what that must be like, it’s generally and very likely will be one of the last things these ladies and gentleman see for the rest of their lives before they go to sleep,” said Carter.


News 18 asked, “Do you expect to release anything else from that video?”

Carter replied, “I hope we don’t have to, I hope what we’ve released is enough."

Delphi teen records suspect before her death; police hope it leads to arrest

Thanks for that correction kizzykat. This was a mistake on my part. I know that her phone kept recording and that's how LE got "Down the hill" and may have captured much more. Just call me stupid.

 

[kizzykat]

Thanks for that correction kizzykat. This was a mistake on my part. I know that her phone kept recording and that's how LE got "Down the hill" and may have captured much more. Just call me stupid.

Oh, I hope you won't take my response as criticism. I am happy to see the girls' thread open again and see new/different members posting, so I just wanted to try to keep it on track.

Like most everyone following this case I can't fathom that the two year anniversary is approaching and this guy hasn't been caught. IMO I kind of doubt LE will release more audio, but do hope something is coming that will help break this case open.