Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[bradfordsleuth]

I’m so sorry that happened to you! How scary!
Back when the pic & audio was first released, I had thought the same thing....that maybe BG had flashed the girls on the trails prior to him approaching them on the bridge. MOO

It was such a quick fleeting moment of shock...I have thought of it several times over the years and thinking of this situation, it makes more sense to me than anything else does.

BG was there for a reason that day...I think that LE needs to look extremely hard at anyone with a 'petty' (can't think of a better word..) record of 'flashing' and who has not had to submit DNA.
He didn't just commit his first crime that day. I think he has done this type of crime before, just not ever with a pair...and he has never been caught.
JMO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

This was discussed at length, and I think it's a very good theory. This happened to me as a teen as well.

IIRC, there was even a lot of talk on this thread about whether or not his penis is actually sticking out in the pic.

I totally missed that discussion. I tried keeping up with these threads but lost my way.
The audio could hint at that, which is maybe why they won't release it. Its a way they can ID the perp by what he did BEFORE the attack if there ever comes a confession.
JMO

 

[JnRyan]

I'm glad to see Abigail and Liberty's case is opened up here for discussion again. With about 30K tips and no known leads, this case has gone cold in the eyes of the general public and ANY respectful publicity and discussion can help.

With over 200 LE and 30K in tips I often wonder if that has hindered the investigation. Like trying to drink from a fire hose. The management of that amount of resources is a monumental task by itself. I believe there is very good possibility this killer is not a resident of the area or LE would have had so many tips regarding him already. He could be living 50-100 miles away or even farther and those closest to him see a resemblance but push it aside due to the distance or some other aspect that causes them to believe he is not involved. I've brought up the Morgan Harrington case in Charlottesville VA before. After the sketch of Morgan's killer came out those who worked with the killer would kid him about looking like the killer. None of them ever put 2 and 2 together and called in a tip in spite of the fact he lived in the same city.

And then again with 30K in tips I often wonder if the tip leading to this killer is buried in there somewhere.

 

[JnRyan]

Just a thought and with 85 threads it probably has come up. Could the day before the romantic day of Valentine's Day be a trigger for this killer. Was he out there just being alone with his thoughts and came across them?

I wonder, did he go out there prepared to do this? Or did he see them on the trail early on such as he was coming off the trail and went to his car for what he needed to commit these murders? If it was the later then that may have been what caused Liberty to be suspicious of him and take the video. It would also mean he was at his vehicle 3 times instead of 2 and he was on the trail longer - i.e., he increased his chances of being seen. (Maybe that is why LE has a sketch.)

I find it hard to believe that even if he was driving through, there are 3 major routes through the area, Hwy's 25 and 421, plus other less traveled roads, that someone didn't see him earlier in the day. Getting gas, stopping for a snack, coffee or some other beverage or some other reason. That might led to a video at a gas pump or elsewhere. I say earlier because as soon as this occurred if he wasn't a resident of the Delphi area he was gone as soon as he could get to his vehicle. If he didn't stop in Delphi, then possibly some place farther from Delphi. It's as if this killer is a ghost.

 

[Faith0263]

Members are wondering what might have caused some alarm for the girls.

My theory is they passed him on the trail, or he was on the adjacent trail where it splits off from the trailhead, up close to C.R. 300. So they saw him.I've also considered the time of year, plenty of visibility through woods which during the warmer months would be overgrown.

Then BG proceeds to head back towards the bridge, making sure nobody was behind him. So I picture him repeatedly looking back towards the bend in the trail, back towards the parking area and trailhead, as he's walking towards the bridge. They may not have noticed that yes, indeed, he's the same guy they'd seen say 20-25 minutes earlier until he was on the far end of the bridge (relative to where they were).

I can picture what objects at 600 feet looks like from a distance, hard to make out familiar people and whatnot. The bridge is 850 feet long. I'd imagine A&L were somewhere between 600-700 feet along on the bridge when he got on it. It would take roughly 4 or so minutes to cross it, being mindful of the bad condition of the bridge (stepping over missing sections, etc.).

If they'd already passed him, why would he be heading back towards the bridge? Last I checked the bridge (not the trail) is still CSX property, in fact people are not supposed to be on it, but at any rate technically the trail ends at the bridge. On the other side is private property. It appears that a lot of folks walk to the bridge and then turn around.

Locals would know much of what is around the bridge is private property, and maybe some folks who have poked around maps which are available online.

I think anybody familiar with the bridge and trail would be suspicious of someone they'd seen earlier on the trail, later get on the bridge to walk all the way across. Not half-way, not 1/4 of the way. All the way across. Besides. what is on the other side? Private property. My hunch is BG was waiting for A) Someone to walk the entire length of the bridge, and B) For there to be no one behind him on the trail.

MOO is he was there for roughly 3 hours, waiting for his prey.

(Edit)

Why would this grown adult be out there that day, just snooping around, and later gets on the bridge to walk the entire length of it? There's just a private driveway to a house on the other side. Where was he going? We all know the answer, and I think A&L knew something was up when he didn't turn around on the bridge.

The private drive leads slightly up hill and around a bend to a nice property. The owner happened to be in Florida when this happened. Going the other way, the private drive becomes C.R. 625.

The guy seemed suspicious, so Libby had the presence of mind to record him.

MOO

Thank you very much for this very detailed post. I can't put my thoughts together very well so I don't post much. But this is exactly on point with me.

I think they encountered him early on. Maybe even more than once. They were very intelligent. Us girls know a creepy guy when we see one.

Thanks again!

 

[TrifleMars]

Hi all, first post so please be gentle with me. I've scoured all the threads to try and find where the information came from claiming that Abby made reference to "the creepy man again". I don't doubt for a moment that's what led to Libby videoing him covertly.
Like others have stated I am also of the mind that they first encountered him as they were walking towards the bridge and BG was leaving, was there an encounter at that point that led to the girls deeming him creepy? Was this the point that he decided he was going to pursue the girls and turned back on himself and followed them? Looking at google earth he could've stayed hidden right up until he stepped onto the bridge. BG is knowledgeable of this area given his choice of crime scene. I can't imagine he directed them there with no idea of where he wanted to take them.
So many questions and so few answers and in the meantime no justice for these girls

 

[heartgoesout]

LE only said the girls made mention of a man. Nowhere does it said they referred to him as "creepy" or any other adjective for that matter or even how long they talked about him. I searched and search for a source too with nothing coming up. A few threads back I became redundant about this. If anyone has a source of anything different please share. On every site I see that people think the girls called him creepy and I don't think that is fact.

 

[minazoe]

As thanksgiving rolls around I encourage all the folks in and around Delphi to look at your men folk , cousins etc, someone maybe a loner in your family that could match this sketch or perhaps a neighbor who has a resemblance. Listen carefully and call LE if anything jogs a memory or sounds unusual. Maybe they will talk about the case or the park.. or show more than just a passing interest in the unsolved case.

I feel like he's due and the holidays might unleash him. I hope to god we catch him. MOO

MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Absolutely insane that they have a photo and voice recording of the suspect and still no clue as to who he is? Wow how can this be?

Someone out there has to know who BG is...

 

[JnRyan]

Someone out there has to know who BG is...

If he is not from the area - say maybe 75-100 miles away - those around him are probably not making the connection. They probably didn't even realize he was in Delphi or don't remember if he was even off from work that day.

I find it difficult to believe this killer hasn't committed a sex crime or even another murder prior to this. He just hasn't been caught. The amount of rape kits that have not been processed in this country is staggering. Some large cities have over a few hundred to a couple of thousand. His DNA may be buried in there somewhere in another city like Chicago, Louisville or Indianapolis.

 

[Jerrod]

Hi all, first post so please be gentle with me. I've scoured all the threads to try and find where the information came from claiming that Abby made reference to "the creepy man again". I don't doubt for a moment that's what led to Libby videoing him covertly.
Like others have stated I am also of the mind that they first encountered him as they were walking towards the bridge and BG was leaving, was there an encounter at that point that led to the girls deeming him creepy? Was this the point that he decided he was going to pursue the girls and turned back on himself and followed them? Looking at google earth he could've stayed hidden right up until he stepped onto the bridge. BG is knowledgeable of this area given his choice of crime scene. I can't imagine he directed them there with no idea of where he wanted to take them.

LE only said the girls made mention of a man. Nowhere does it said they referred to him as "creepy" or any other adjective for that matter or even how long they talked about him. I searched and search for a source too with nothing coming up. A few threads back I became redundant about this. If anyone has a source of anything different please share. On every site I see that people think the girls called him creepy and I don't think that is fact.

Becky Patty referred to BG as being "creepy" in the Facebook Q & A interview she hosted with Tara German months ago. I downloaded the lengthy transcript of it, but not the link. Perhaps it's in the "No Discussion" thread, since others have quoted portions of it also. This is the excerpt:

Question: Did Libby text Mike [Patty]?

Becky: Libby did not text Mike saying some creep was following them - I searched phone records to confirm this - Mike does not use messenger or messages on Facebook. She was heard on the audio she turned on as BG was spotted coming towards them. They were talking about that creepy guy they'd seen earlier.

 

[heartgoesout]

Thanks for posting that! I've read that excerpt over and over trying to make sense of it and I'm over thinking/reading it. Is that BP's word or the girls?
So when the audio was turned on, they made mention of the man they saw earlier. That's what's important. What adjective or what they said exactly is unknown?
But the concept remains that something that could be described as creepy was going on.
I wish we new their exact wording.

 

[gregjrichards]

I’m thinking of Abigail and Liberty’s families as they face another Thanksgiving without them and the perpetrator still at large. They must be under tremendous strain.

 

[TrifleMars]

Becky Patty referred to BG as being "creepy" in the Facebook Q & A interview she hosted with Tara German months ago. I downloaded the lengthy transcript of it, but not the link. Perhaps it's in the "No Discussion" thread, since others have quoted portions of it also. This is the excerpt:

Question: Did Libby text Mike [Patty]?

Becky: Libby did not text Mike saying some creep was following them - I searched phone records to confirm this - Mike does not use messenger or messages on Facebook. She was heard on the audio she turned on as BG was spotted coming towards them. They were talking about that creepy guy they'd seen earlier.

Thank you so much for clarifying that I do appreciate it
I've not encountered a case that's got to me so much since the search here in the U.K. For little April Jones
My heart truly goes out to Libby and Abby's families as we approach another festive season without any answers for them

 

[CarolynV]

Despite suspect similarities, links between Delphi and St. Louis attack are 'premature,' police say

Oh please, oh please...So sorry for the victims in Mo.

 

[kc1023]

You guys!!

Despite suspect similarities, links between Delphi and St. Louis attack are 'premature,' police say

snip:
A 53-year-old mother of three, identified as Jamie Schmidt, was killed Monday at the Catholic Supply of St. Louis store.

Police in St. Louis have released a description of the suspect, but he has not been identified. They are looking for a white man about 5-foot-8-inches tall, and 40-50 years old. At the time of the incident, he was wearing a navy blue Carhartt-style work jacket, a plaid shirt, red, white, and black in color, glasses, a brown belt with a red and blue square on the clasp or clip of the belt and a newsboys/flat hat.

A 53-year-old person of interest is in custody for the crime.

The description is similar to the one given for the Delphi suspect – the person believed to have killed teenagers Abigail Williams and Liberty German in February 2017.

A spokesperson with Indiana State Police said they are “aware” of the investigation in St. Louis, but that it’s premature to “draw any connection between the two investigations.”

 

[TrifleMars]

What's the distance between Delphi and St Louis?
Please God let this be it

 

[kc1023]

What's the distance between Delphi and St Louis?
Please God let this be it

I just googled - 288 miles. Not out of the question in that regard I'd say.

 

[TrifleMars]

ST louis police twitter account are tweeting right now that nobody has been formally charged dispite this mugshot circulating

 

[CarolynV]

Jefferson County man charged with murder, sex crimes in Catholic Supply store attack