Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[MistyWaters]

That was my exact thought! Isn’t it interesting that he kept the clothing -hidden inside his own home, no less-, rather than simply getting rid of it? He had plenty of time to throw it into a Dumpster or whatever.

As dumb as it sounds, I’ve even wondered if the paperboy cap and the Carhartt jacket were a part of a uniform of sorts or a “good luck outfit” for him. If TB is BG, given that he hadn’t been caught in almost two years, maybe he was becoming more and more confident and didn’t even consider the possibility of members of public -let alone LE- noticing the similarities between the two.

I’m any case, I’m sure the investigators have been tearing their previous residence in Imperial apart, looking for additional evidence. I hope the new owner hadn’t moved in yet.

I somehow missed reading your post earlier, I could’ve saved my words. You refected my thoughts exactly!

 

[Inthedetails]

I don’t think TB would’ve have a reason to attend Calvery Chapel in Delphi. And there’s absolutely no indication he was Pastor there.

But he became Pastor of another Calvery Chapel that was newly established in the same year, 2003. It’s possible through the CC Pastor network, meetings, mentoring, conferences, fellowship, religious training, etc that TB became familiar with the Delphi area because of that mutual connection.

Correct. TB was NOT a pastor in Delphi. Just want to make sure that doesn't get repeated.

TB was a pastor of a Calvary Chapel in Missouri.

There was a Calvary Chapel in Delphi until March 2017.

I think it's likely that TB was familiar with the chapel in Delphi (other WSers do not think this is a strong possibility).

I think that the church connection is worth considering as we await more info. I do not for one moment imply that the chapel itself in Delphi has a connection to the crimes! But, rather, that TB would have a reason to be in Delphi if he was visiting the chapel at some point.

But TB was NOT a pastor in Delphi. Just don't want this to spiral into misinformation.

jmo

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Thanks for you excellent summary!

From your list.
4. Neighbour says LE also took a bag of clothing that appears to have been hidden under the mobile home. The video shows a hole in the skirt of the trailer.

I’m unable to find the link so is it my imagination or did I read one of the charges filed against TB was connected to Tampering with Evidence because he’d hidden his clothing? If so, possibly under his trailer would suggest he had reason to make an effort to keep it as opposed to discarding it in an out of way trash bin.

If there’s a proven connection to TB to the Delphi murders or others, if he was inclined to save the clothing, it’s hopeful that forensics may be able to obtain DNA or other evidence such as fibres or soil samples associated to other criminal acts as well.

Yes, my understanding regarding the reason for the Tampering with Evidence charge is the same as yours:

“McCulloch said the tampering charge filed against Bruce was because he had disposed of clothing that was ‘ultimately recovered.’” (BBM)
Jefferson County man charged with murder, sex crimes in Catholic Supply store attack | Law and order | stltoday.com

I really like your thinking about the possibility of evidence from potential past crimes being left on the clothing. And the more I learn about TB, the more strongly I feel this isn’t the first time he has done something like this. I realize that he was in the Navy for 11+ years, but I’m sure being in the military is not the only reason why he has moved 27 times.

I am very curious as to what he was doing during the periods of time he was unemployed.

Another thing I find interesting is that at the time of their bankruptcy filing, his only source of income was a military stipend of $133 per month. I’ve felt since his arrest that TB hasn’t been entirely truthful about his background or personal and professional history, including his purported military service. $133 a month sounds like such a small amount for someone with a military service of 11 years, assuming he was honorably discharged.

 

[SandyQLS]

In addition to all the other charges...he stole something from the store??? Maybe he does have a habit of retaining mementos of his crimes?
Burglary 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }

Burglary is unlawful entry, aka breaking and entering, not Stealing or Theft. He had a gun so it's 1st degree, a Class B felony in Missouri.
http://www.lozanolaw.com/criminal-defense/theft/burglary/

Also, both Indiana and Missouri do have the death penalty for murder. This is very good news for leverage against TB.

 

[SandyQLS]

Yes, my understanding regarding the reason for the Tampering with Evidence charge is the same as yours:

“McCulloch said the tampering charge filed against Bruce was because he had disposed of clothing that was ‘ultimately recovered.’”
Jefferson County man charged with murder, sex crimes in Catholic Supply store attack | Law and order | stltoday.com

I really like your thinking about the possibility of evidence from potential past crimes being left on the clothing. And the more I learn about TB, the more strongly I feel this isn’t the first time he has done something like this. I realize that he was in the Navy for 11+ years, but I’m sure being in the military is not the only reason why he has moved 27 times.

I am very curious as to what he was doing during the periods of time he was unemployed.

Another thing I find interesting is that at the time of their bankruptcy filing, his only source of income was a military stipend of $133 per month. I’ve felt since his arrest that TB hasn’t been entirely truthful about his background or personal and professional history, including his purported military service. $133 a month sounds like such a small amount for someone with a military service of 11 years, assuming he was honorably discharged.

View attachment 157170

Per the bankruptcy filing, the $133 per month is a disability payment. That would have been calculated based on the disability, on a case by case basis, how severe is the loss or impairment.

11 years in service = no retirement at all.

 

[AuctionGal]

An explanation of his injuries.

Bruce appeared with a bruise under one of his eyes and a scrape above his eyebrow in a mug shot taken after his arrest.
St. Louis County Sgt. Shawn McGuire said the injuries occurred while officers were taking him into custody.
"Bruce, a person of interest that possibly committed multiple sexual assaults to strangers prior to shooting another victim in the head, and who was potentially armed, was not compliant. Officers, not knowing what was on his person or around him in his house, used force to take him into custody due to the non-compliance," he said in a statement.

A use of force report was written by a supervisor on scene, according to his statement.

Suspect in Catholic Supply attack appears in St. Louis County Court to request public defender

 

[MistyWaters]

Burglary is unlawful entry, aka breaking and entering, not Stealing or Theft. He had a gun so it's 1st degree, a Class B felony in Missouri.
http://www.lozanolaw.com/criminal-defense/theft/burglary/

Also, both Indiana and Missouri do have the death penalty for murder. This is very good news for leverage against TB.

Okay. But I thought he just walked in when the Catholic supply store was open?

ETA: from google “entry into a building illegally with intent to commit a crime, especially theft.”
I suppose it’s possible he’s charged with Burglary because his underlying intent was to SA, not to make a purchase.

 

[Inthedetails]

An explanation of his injuries.

Bruce appeared with a bruise under one of his eyes and a scrape above his eyebrow in a mug shot taken after his arrest.
St. Louis County Sgt. Shawn McGuire said the injuries occurred while officers were taking him into custody.
"Bruce, a person of interest that possibly committed multiple sexual assaults to strangers prior to shooting another victim in the head, and who was potentially armed, was not compliant. Officers, not knowing what was on his person or around him in his house, used force to take him into custody due to the non-compliance," he said in a statement.

A use of force report was written by a supervisor on scene, according to his statement.

Suspect in Catholic Supply attack appears in St. Louis County Court to request public defender

Not compliant with LE?

So he's not a mild gentleman of the cloth, upstanding citizen with respect for the work that LE do. Surprise/not surprised. I think the guy has been thriving with a duel personality: public and hidden. When confronted, his hidden self comes out.

j my o

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I have shivers. Wow.

 

[Inthedetails]

Okay. But I thought he just walked in when the Catholic supply store was open?

ETA: from google “entry into a building illegally with intent to commit a crime, especially theft.”
I suppose it’s possible he’s charged with Burglary because his underlying intent was to SA, not to make a purchase.

Has it been revealed if he locked the store during the crime, or was the entrance left open for other customers to wander in?

 

[kirkassoc]

Very likely that TB finally unraveled to the point where he gave up on himself. How could he figure he was going to get away with this? Investigators will say that killing sprees are often triggered by stressors, which include:

• legal troubles
  
  
• marital issues
  
  
• sexual stress or frustration
  
  
• conflict with peers or co-workers
  
  
• employment problems
  
  
• financial strain
  
  
• mental health problems.

He's been through a recent bankruptcy, just had his home foreclosed on, can't hold a steady job, and relies on his wife for their financial welfare.



It was for his disability.

"Veterans with a service-related disability and an "other than dishonorable" discharge can qualify for a monthly tax-free benefit ranging from $133 to over $3400 every month."

Veteran Disability Compensation

I believe (and I have read) that some criminals just plain want to go to prison to avoid working and to get free everything. It's a better life than living homeless or having to work. <modsnip - political comment> God help the person who crosses their paths on their way to "freedom."

 

[tnith]

In addition to all the other charges...he stole something from the store??? Maybe he does have a habit of retaining mementos of his crimes?
Burglary 1st Degree { Felony B RSMo: 569.160 }

Burglary is a charge than can be applied toward an unwanted presence on a property.

I read this into the circumstances that he was asked or told to leave (charge fits if victimized employee reported such).

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, my understanding regarding the reason for the Tampering with Evidence charge is the same as yours:

“McCulloch said the tampering charge filed against Bruce was because he had disposed of clothing that was ‘ultimately recovered.’” (BBM)
Jefferson County man charged with murder, sex crimes in Catholic Supply store attack | Law and order | stltoday.com

I really like your thinking about the possibility of evidence from potential past crimes being left on the clothing. And the more I learn about TB, the more strongly I feel this isn’t the first time he has done something like this. I realize that he was in the Navy for 11+ years, but I’m sure being in the military is not the only reason why he has moved 27 times.

I am very curious as to what he was doing during the periods of time he was unemployed.

Another thing I find interesting is that at the time of their bankruptcy filing, his only source of income was a military stipend of $133 per month. I’ve felt since his arrest that TB hasn’t been entirely truthful about his background or personal and professional history, including his purported military service. $133 a month sounds like such a small amount for someone with a military service of 11 years, assuming he was honorably discharged.

View attachment 157170

One of the media reports indicates he filed for bankruptcy twice as well.

From what we know of TBs life presently, he certainly appears to have been on the down and outs presently but as you’ve pointed out, there’s a substantial amount of instability occurring throughout his life, both in residency and gainful employment ever since he left the military. Often times change is only an indication of starting over for one reason or another. The answer we don’t know regarding TB, what were his reasons?

If job loss and relocation were not through his personal choice, he could’ve had the potential to have been a loose cannon during many of his “down” times throughout prior decades.

 

[Inthedetails]

If you look at the map of Calvary Chapels in the world, and zoom into the midwest USA, you'll see that there aren't that many - just a few, in fact. Calvary Chapel | Church Finder, Calvary Global Network, CGN

But TB was the pastor of a (now closed) chapel in MO, and there just happens to have been a chapel in Delphi until March 2017. It's not as if you find Calvary Chapels in every midwestern town by any means. Yet, we have one in the small town where BG was.

Again, I am NOT implying the chapel has anything to do with the crime, but that it might be why TB would be in Delphi. Someone upthread commented the Calvary pastors tend to know each other. I have pastors in my family (different denomination), and they know other pastors, visit each other and each other's churches, help other congregations when needed, etc.

But, it could mean absolutely nothing, just a weird coincidence.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

Not sure if this has been posted, but this article names the church TB supposedly founded. Who is suspected Catholic Supply shooter Thomas Bruce?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Did someone here already sleuth a connection between TB and RL?

 

[MistyWaters]

If you look at the map of Calvary Chapels in the world, and zoom into the midwest USA, you'll see that there aren't that many - just a few, in fact. Calvary Chapel | Church Finder, Calvary Global Network, CGN

But TB was the pastor of a (now closed) chapel in MO, and there just happens to have been a chapel in Delphi until March 2017. It's not as if you find Calvary Chapels in every midwestern town by any means. Yet, we have one in the small town where BG was.

Again, I am NOT implying the chapel has anything to do with the crime, but that it might be why TB would be in Delphi. Someone upthread commented the Calvary pastors tend to know each other. I have pastors in my family (different denomination), and they know other pastors, visit each other and each other's churches, help other congregations when needed, etc.

But, it could mean absolutely nothing, just a weird coincidence.

jmo

Not proof TB was familiar with Delphi through its location of another Calvary Chapel established the same year, but an indication of the possibility.

BBM
Calvary Chapels are independent and self-governing churches. They do not have church membership apart from pastors recognized through their affiliate program. The Calvary Chapel Association has the responsibility of affiliating churches with Calvary Chapel. A church that affiliates with Calvary Chapel often (but not always) uses the name "Calvary Chapel". Three requirements for becoming affiliated exist:

1. the pastor must "embrace the characteristics of the Calvary Chapel movement as described in Calvary Chapel Distinctives"
2. the church must have the characteristics of a church (as opposed to a less-developed home fellowship)
3. an applicant must express willingness to spend the time to fellowship with other Calvary Chapels[54]

Calvary Chapel - Wikipedia

 

[SandyQLS]

Not compliant with LE?

So he's not a mild gentleman of the cloth, upstanding citizen with respect for the work that LE do. Surprise/not surprised. I think the guy has been thriving with a duel personality: public and hidden. When confronted, his hidden self comes out.

j my o

When posters were saying they are reminded of BTK, I was thinking of Gacy. I get that same split personality, Dr Jekyl/Mr Hyde vibe from this guy. I also wonder if he has a "catch me if you can" disrespect for LE that caused him to keep upping the ante of clues.

 

[tnith]

If you look at the map of Calvary Chapels in the world, and zoom into the midwest USA, you'll see that there aren't that many - just a few, in fact. Calvary Chapel | Church Finder, Calvary Global Network, CGN

But TB was the pastor of a (now closed) chapel in MO, and there just happens to have been a chapel in Delphi until March 2017. It's not as if you find Calvary Chapels in every midwestern town by any means. Yet, we have one in the small town where BG was.

Again, I am NOT implying the chapel has anything to do with the crime, but that it might be why TB would be in Delphi. Someone upthread commented the Calvary pastors tend to know each other. I have pastors in my family (different denomination), and they know other pastors, visit each other and each other's churches, help other congregations when needed, etc.

But, it could mean absolutely nothing, just a weird coincidence.

jmo

There's rather a LOT of odd coincidences piling up between what's been reported, and what's left unsaid.

I'm partial to perceiving the why of TB's church folding, communities that congregation was drawn from, and where they dispersed to after the fact.

For those interested in his sermons I might dig a bit deeper into this aspect as they'd most likely exist offline on cassettes; either in a personal collection or another chapter of Calvary's archives (unconverted to digital).
Given the nature of this scandal it's dubious that clergy or former members would wish to expose these now.

 

[Inthedetails]

Not proof TB was familiar with Delphi through its location of another Calvary Chapel established the same year, but an indication of the possibility.

BBM
Calvary Chapels are independent and self-governing churches. They do not have church membership apart from pastors recognized through their affiliate program. The Calvary Chapel Association has the responsibility of affiliating churches with Calvary Chapel. A church that affiliates with Calvary Chapel often (but not always) uses the name "Calvary Chapel". Three requirements for becoming affiliated exist:

1. the pastor must "embrace the characteristics of the Calvary Chapel movement as described in Calvary Chapel Distinctives"
2. the church must have the characteristics of a church (as opposed to a less-developed home fellowship)
3. an applicant must express willingness to spend the time to fellowship with other Calvary Chapels[54]

Calvary Chapel - Wikipedia

Yes, exactly. It is not proof. But it is worth considering, imo.