Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[TL4S]

Now the recent release from ISP indicating their deaths occurred very quickly:

“This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

Snipped by me.

This is really scary. From the likely point of contact (end of bridge), to the location they were found, how far do you think that is? 500-800 feet? How long would it have taken them to walk that? Maybe 10 minutes or so, depending on terrain? Sorry if this has already been talked about early on...I wasn't around yet.

It just makes me think that once they were near the water, the murders happened quickly. It's strange, though. IMO. Why carry out a crime like this, not far from public eye, hurried by its very nature? What was the point? I had been kind of leaning towards a SA not happening, due to time constraints, etc, but as much as I hate it, I think I'm leaning the other way now. JMO

 

[7%Reichenbach]

They have yet to update the ISP website with this information...highly dubious.

LE have now mentioned two people owning the vehicle and an alibi so I think it likely two are involved. Even if one is just protecting the perp by given an alibi for instance. They would still be guilty imo. What do you think?

 

[raja]

The problem with DNA is that this is a public park where people go you have to directly tie it to the girls and that may be one of their problems. Imho

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I think he had motive and it was sexual assault. I am not convinced that took place due to the time constraints but I think it was his plan. Possibly the girls were more assertive than he thought they would be. They may have tried to flee and he had to abort his original plan but knew he could not let them go.

It just makes me sick to know this creep is still out roaming around, wherever. I hope this newly released sketch is more accurate. I realize a person can change their appearance but if a chin is prominent it would be hard to change that.

At this point I am torn between a family member knowingly covering for this person and family just not seeing the obvious because the perp has never said or done anything to make them believe he could be capable.

Bundy pulled the wool over everyone's eyes for so long. Even family who knew he was not perfect, and his live-in girlfriend who questioned some of his comings and goings and the occasional odd remark didn't put two and two together, immediately dismissing any concerns they might have had because of course it "couldn't be." Even those few were shocked when the truth came out.

Bundy even had Ann Rule fooled for a while. She had been a (Seattle) Police Officer for a while.

 

[MassGuy]

Snipped by me.

This is really scary. From the likely point of contact (end of bridge), to the location they were found, how far do you think that is? 500-800 feet? How long would it have taken them to walk that? Maybe 10 minutes or so, depending on terrain? Sorry if this has already been talked about early on...I wasn't around yet.

It just makes me think that once they were near the water, the murders happened quickly. It's strange, though. IMO. Why carry out a crime like this, not far from public eye, hurried by its very nature? What was the point? I had been kind of leaning towards a SA not happening, due to time constraints, etc, but as much as I hate it, I think I'm leaning the other way now. JMO

There’s three possibilities:

He did commit sexual assault.

He intended to commit SA, but was disturbed or changed his mind.

He never planned on SA, and only wanted to kill.

The thing that is always in the back of my mind when it comes to theories here, is the nature of DNA evidence.

Because I’m still unsure if it does exist, or if its quality, I’m leaning towards no SA.

I think we’d have a resolution by now if he did.

 

[7%Reichenbach]

I thought the 14th from the PC was later corrected to ascertain the 13th?

Duplicate. Sorry.

 

[7%Reichenbach]

I thought the 14th from the PC was later corrected to ascertain the 13th?

Indeed it was. The livestream lasted longer than the MSM broadcast and the date was corrected after about 2 minutes the prepared statements ended.

 

[TL4S]

There’s three possibilities:

He did commit sexual assault.

He intended to commit SA, but was disturbed or changed his mind.

He never planned on SA, and only wanted to kill.

The thing that is always in the back of my mind when it comes to theories here, is the nature of DNA evidence.

Because I’m still unsure if it does exist, or if its quality, I’m leaning towards no SA.

I think we’d have a resolution by now if he did.

I'm totally on board with that. And I guess the crime could have been sexual in nature, but still without true contact as such. What always nags at me is something said at a very early PC, and I can't recall exact words, but something along the lines of, "I think the public can come to their own conclusions about what happened." Well, my guess is the conclusion most people would come to when they hear a man killing two teenage girls is SA.

 

[Boro55]

Ummm many rivers flow north in the US alone like 30 some

Sandusky river in ohio near me for one

i have fished the sandusky many times ;p
central,oh here!

 

[Boro55]

It’s a theory no longer based on facts IMO.

The “girls taken” theory also arose early on because of two different dates of death on the memorial notice but that was debunked upon the sealing of the autopsy when it was noted both girls died on the 13th. The reason for that was to end rumour and speculation IMO.

Then later came recovery of the audio of Libby’s cellphone and LE informing us there’s more audio that’s never been released. If Libby threw it in some bushes nearby, it’s possible the cellphone recorded audio up until the batteries powered out at 5pm.

Now the recent release from ISP indicating their deaths occurred very quickly:

“This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

Aside from that, medical forensic examiners can determine the difference between victims who died at the location where their bodies are found and those whose bodies were transported after death and staged.

is there a link for this debunking on the DOD?

 

[rosesfromangels]

There’s three possibilities:

He did commit sexual assault.

He intended to commit SA, but was disturbed or changed his mind.

He never planned on SA, and only wanted to kill.

The thing that is always in the back of my mind when it comes to theories here, is the nature of DNA evidence.

Because I’m still unsure if it does exist, or if its quality, I’m leaning towards no SA.

I think we’d have a resolution by now if he did.

Or he used protection to avoid leaving that DNA, or used baster and bleach to wash it away. Anything is possible. It looked like that jacket had a lot of gear under it, and he could have had additional tools of his murderous trade in that car that has been mentioned so frequently.
Well planned lay in wait attack, which should bring special circumstances.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[carbuff]

There’s three possibilities:

He did commit sexual assault.

He intended to commit SA, but was disturbed or changed his mind.

He never planned on SA, and only wanted to kill.

The thing that is always in the back of my mind when it comes to theories here, is the nature of DNA evidence.

Because I’m still unsure if it does exist, or if its quality, I’m leaning towards no SA.

I think we’d have a resolution by now if he did.

I learned recently in relation to an unidentified person case I follow that partial DNA can be sufficient for a ruleout even if it's not sufficient for a match.

 

[Wells]

There’s three possibilities:

He did commit sexual assault.

He intended to commit SA, but was disturbed or changed his mind.

He never planned on SA, and only wanted to kill.

The thing that is always in the back of my mind when it comes to theories here, is the nature of DNA evidence.

Because I’m still unsure if it does exist, or if its quality, I’m leaning towards no SA.

I think we’d have a resolution by now if he did.

There is a 4th possibility that goes along with 2/3 of the above. He tried to make it look like SA even though it wasn't.

 

[MassGuy]

I learned recently in relation to an unidentified person case I follow that partial DNA can be sufficient for a ruleout even if it's not sufficient for a match.

It sure can. They may have enough to exclude, but can’t do much else with it.

I hope that’s not the case, as it would rule out genetic genealogy.

 

[margarita25]

I was talking about the murder of Nicole Bowen and the arrested suspect.

Thank you.

So, this case then:
New details learned about the murder of Nicole Bowen

So there’s an msm link that identifies who GK is. Thank you that’s what I was wanting to know.

Has a mod weighed in yet if he is discussable per TOS?

I’m going to take a look at Nicole’s thread and see if anything is mentioned over there:
Identified! - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

 

[Cutiekitty]

Sorry if this has already been answered, I'm behind in reading posts. I think I am remembering correctly that when the SC photos were originally posted to FB by someone who took screenshots they still showed the time stamp from the SC post. So I believe 2:07 was the time they were posted. It has been mentioned that since service isn't guaranteed at the bridge the pix may not have uploaded as soon as she posted them so there could be a few minute delay or not.

When the FB poster posted the SC photo it would still have the 2:07 time because it was saved from her/his SC or to the camera roll then uploaded to FB. My kids SC all the time and they’ll take SC pics and save them to the camera roll so they can edit them or to just pick the best ones. They do this a lot when they are taking pics of someone else - they let the person decide if they like the pic before posting. Sometimes they don’t post them right away. Sometimes they do. The time on the SC pic is the time it was posted, but not necessarily the time the pic was taken. The SC pic could’ve been taken shortly after they were dropped off . It couldn’t have been after 2:07. There seems to be some conflict with witness sighting times at or very near the bridge and I was thinking...well, if the pic was actually taken earlier, but was posted at 2:07 then the conflict is somewhat resolved. IDK...just trying to get things straight in my brain.

 

[x_files]

They must be newbies,transplants, you know because they use Umbrellas and can't properly pronounce Puyallup. Lol
MOO.

could be! It does seem PNW natives have all heard of BUNDY! Especially with all the tv coverage on him back in the '70s-'90s.
But who knows...maybe people in Delphi heard of the case a few years ago and are too busy with their lives, however, there has to be someone paying attention.

 

[eastcoasterinco]

Correct me if I am wrong, but "The Shack" (as in the movie and/or book) was never officially brought up with regard to the NB case, not in the way Carter deliberately referenced it at the televised April presser regarding the Delphi murders. People are just making connections because NB was tortured and killed in a shed/shack. That is it. It's two different things, imo.

The suspect for the NB murder did not act alone, there are multiple people involved, he doesn't look anything like the #2 sketch, and it appears to be related to snitching and drugs (different motives). That suspect would not shock his family or friends if they found out he committed a violent murder. I'm struggling to find aspects that fit, aside from the fact that he's likely killed and tortured someone and is a criminal and has red hair. Where's the "hiding in plain sight" angle? Where's the "What would your loved ones think?" angle to the presser.

I wasn't aware that the suspect in the NB case did not act alone - this is intriguing because, as you and some posters are asking questions like "Why would LE use that type of language in the presser, like 'you could be in this room?'" -- maybe it's because another POI in the NB case seems to fit the profile of BG and LE believes he worked with GK on the NB murder, but don't have enough to bring him in on either case. Just a theory. I read there is 1 guy wanted for assisting a criminal (GK) in the NB murder, who has red hair, and as far as I read there's a warrant out for his arrest but he hasn't been found. Doesn't look a whole lot like BG to me though.

Also, when you say, "That suspect would not shock his family or friends if they found out he committed a violent murder," I disagree. I WISH I could talk about what one of GK's family members posted on SM about his demeanor in the days following the Delphi murder, and her feelings along the lines of, 'I should have seen this connection sooner'.

IMO the NB murder happened so recently that back when the Delphi murders occurred, it's possible the family wouldn't have made any connection and finding out he was responsible for this crime would be shocking to them, as it would no longer be about drugs, snitching etc., and they'd be searching for "why" and "how" he could commit such a crime against 2 young girls.

All MOO

 

[drama_farmer]

I'm totally on board with that. And I guess the crime could have been sexual in nature, but still without true contact as such. What always nags at me is something said at a very early PC, and I can't recall exact words, but something along the lines of, "I think the public can come to their own conclusions about what happened." Well, my guess is the conclusion most people would come to when they hear a man killing two teenage girls is SA.

Bbm
I recall a statement similar to that regarding whether the public is at risk following the murders.. MOO

 

[OhioStateD]

Correct me if I am wrong, but "The Shack" (as in the movie and/or book) was never officially brought up with regard to the NB case, not in the way Carter deliberately referenced it at the televised April presser regarding the Delphi murders. People are just making connections because NB was tortured and killed in a shed/shack. That is it. It's two different things, imo.

The suspect for the NB murder did not act alone, there are multiple people involved, he doesn't look anything like the #2 sketch, and it appears to be related to snitching and drugs (different motives). That suspect would not shock his family or friends if they found out he committed a violent murder. I'm struggling to find aspects that fit, aside from the fact that he's likely killed and tortured someone and is a criminal and has red hair. Where's the "hiding in plain sight" angle? Where's the "What would your loved ones think?" angle to the presser.

I'm not totally on board that he's the murderer either but he definitely has some interesting connections to Delphi. If it is related, I think in the PC, they are pleading to the few people in Delphi that know him well and for a long time to see if anyone will come forward with info.

Nicole was actually tortured and murdered at a different location than the shack and was then disposed of there.

5th suspect arrested, charged in West Lafayette woman’s torture, homicide near Kentland