Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

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sunsetbeach said:
yes, I remember. It was a young male (allegedly related to Libby). The “confrontation” occurred three weeks prior to the murders near the same trail entrance the girls were dropped off at. The bench at the intersection.

(ok I just self deleted most of this post because I’m not sure it’s allowed).
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He was not alone, was with others, according to what was written, the screenshot I saw.

I believe it was said by LE that the original BG sketch released was a compilation of a few different witnesses, so not just the guy who wrote about it.
 
busymcmoody said:
Damn. The rumors have been around but it never stops hurting when I hear that they suffered so much. I can imagine that Libby suffered more because her grandfather said she would have fought like crazy. :(
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So she fought, and the guy got angry to the extreme, and he took his anger on her.

When can a person get so angry?

1) Bipolar-psychotic
2) High on meth
3) an incredible narcissist

Something else?
 
JnRyan said:
No, I believe you had something. If one parent - say the mother - got a job teaching or in city/county government in Delphi, they could have lived in or near Delphi while the father commuted to Grissom. At most it was 36 miles, less if they lived to the east or northeast of Delphi. My commute, in probably MUCH heavier traffic to a Navy base was almost 30 miles. And sometimes the rules are strange. For example, the children of military families on Naval Weapons Station Earle do not go to the nearby schools, but attend schools in the next township or county over, based on an agreement between the Navy and the local government.
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This is good to know. Thank you.
 
southernswede said:
In order for LE to say that BG is for sure the murderer don't you think they must have more video of what took place? How else can they so assuredly say that?

I had a heating/cooling guy here doing a repair earlier in the week and he really resembled the BG original sketch. He also had the same stature and the same type of boots as BG. If I’m honest, I’m just always on the lookout for guys who look like him. I’m a ways from IN but there was that announcement way back when from LE saying the search for BG was extended to southeast TN. I know they claim that was misinformation, but it still seems so random and weird to me.

In another group I'm in on this case, there’s a girl from, Terre Haute, who was in nursing school when the murders happened. The girls’ autopsies were performed there at the local hospital by Dr. Ronald Kohr. She knew Dr.Kohr b/c she'd done several autopsies with him during clinicals. She said they talked about Libby & Abby but he didn’t go into specifics about the case for obvious reasons. He said it was one of the most horrific cases he’s ever been involved with. He said they really suffered, especially Libby.

Counting the days 'til this piece of **** is caught.
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I think what ever the killer said to Libby and Abby that was captured on Libby's phone's audio, the times stamped on the media, made it very clear the man who was filmed approaching them was that same man abducting them. IMO

It's heart wrenching to hear what your friend said. God Bless those two angels.
 
One more idea.

The person does not live in Delphi per see, either lived there or has travelled there. He is probably not into shacks. He is into gaming.

He is an avid gamer and is trying to recreate a game he is obsessed about IRL.

Do we have any game where a person, or a creature, is abducted from a bridge and annihilated?

I am not a gamer. But to me, Death Stranding has elements of it.

Death Stranding - Wikipedia

A review. It appears that the bridge is an important part of the game.

Review: 'Death Stranding' Is the Weirdest Game I've Ever Played

As I have said, I am not a gamer, but maybe there is a game, where the bridge is an important part, or abductions are? Where the hero looks slightly like the BG, is dressed in garb of the same color? Carries the same things (a torch is important in one game, I know).
Or even MOD is similar to a game? I don't know what exactly happened, but lots of blood, some swords, possibly? Is there any game he could have gotten the idea from?
 
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Rossymom said:
Also, for what's its worth....Grissom has a prison on their grounds. There are soldiers who drill on this base from all over Indiana. They make the drive for their scheduled weekends. How do I know? I'm married to a CW3 and have two sons who serve. One serves at Grissom.
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Thank them for their service please! Appreciate your input too! God Bless America!
 
stattlich1 said:
My thoughts.....They knew the area well, they knew the neighbors were not home, they knew the girls, they knew the girls were going there, they had the escape route planned, they had the murder site planned. BG waited for their arrival, followed them, herded them 'down the hill' where 2nd perp waited. The girls were immediately either 1. rendered unconscious, or 2. rendered silent in some way. They crossed the creek to the more remote spot. One killed them while the other went to get the car for escape. Killer walks out of the woods, jumps in car, and off they go.

I see it a possible the killer(s) did not originally intend to murder, however, things went sour, and it resulted in it. This would lead me to speculate that the move across the creek, and the escape method would have been quite hasty. However, in haste, killers often make mistakes. The fact there has yet to be an arrest tells me that little if nothing of material evidence belonging to the killer(s) was left at the scene.

I think they used the car at the abandoned building as an escape vehicle, OR, they had a car in the cemetery and made their escape via that route.

Rumor has it that there is little DNA. Who knows? However, if the scene was 'cleaned' of DNA then for me that would be an indicator of planning.

Think about someone you do not know, that you saw this morning, that you ran in to, and see how accurately you can describe them. Someone you walked past on the sidewalk, in the grocery store, or a parking lot. Not someone you talked to at length, or sat next to on a bus, but somebody you simply walked past. I know I am really bad at accurate recall.

The theory is that someone walked right past the murderer on this day, possibly looked straight at him, and provided the details for a sketch. Possibly two folks claim to have seen him, and provided details for 2 sketches. They even have a video of him. They have a voice recording. They allude that they know the second sketch is representative of the BG. They state that they believe BG to be from Delphi, a quite small town. Yet can not catch him.

Hmmmmmm.
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They can't place him at the crime scene, JMO
 
Evansdale is close to Waterloo in IA, part of its metropolitan center.

Waterloo hosts US Army Reserve and IA National Guard.
Also, bases around Des Moines that is only 2 hours away from Evansdale.

Question, if someone thinks Grissom Air Reserve base, that is pretty large, would the person be expected to serve previously also on the air bases, or do I check other military bases, too? Air bases are logical, right?
 
stattlich1 said:
My thoughts.....They knew the area well, they knew the neighbors were not home, they knew the girls, they knew the girls were going there, they had the escape route planned, they had the murder site planned. BG waited for their arrival, followed them, herded them 'down the hill' where 2nd perp waited. The girls were immediately either 1. rendered unconscious, or 2. rendered silent in some way. They crossed the creek to the more remote spot. One killed them while the other went to get the car for escape. Killer walks out of the woods, jumps in car, and off they go.
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Perhaps the bbm-part went different than you think.

Bringing the girls across the creek and murdering them, doesn't mean "kidnapping", IMO. But LE is speaking of "kidnapping" before double murder in case Abby/Libby.

The killer and his accomplice had to plan, that there might be a very narrow time window until someone would appear to pick up the two teenage girls at the trail. So the killer's plan would have included a drive to a different place/destination/barn/shack/building, IMO. A waiting car "down the hill" or under the bridge would make a lot of sense, IMO. This car may have been one of two cars, if the killer had an accomplice (one car perhaps at the CBS building).
IF it is a SK with an accomplice and IF he is a very smart=evil one, he is perhaps "modifying the game" each time by:
kidnapping his victim/s and turn them back to/near to the first crime scene
OR
kidnapping his victim/s and leave them at a second crime scene
OR
leave them at the first crime scene without kidnapping.
MOO
 
People have talked about BG having been this master criminal for concealing evidence but the reality is that the woodland location of these murders really hindered evidence collection.

I found this National Institute of Justice site that talks about outdoor crime scenes.

"An outdoor crime scene is the most vulnerable to loss, contamination and damaging effects on biological evidence in a short period of time. Individuals with access to the scene can potentially alter, destroy or contaminate evidence. The risk is greatest when the crime scene is not properly secured.

Destruction or deterioration of evidence due to environmental conditions, such as heat, cold, rain, snow and wind call for rapid and effective protection of biological evidence. Evidence that cannot be protected under these conditions should be quickly collected without compromising its integrity. When encountering a combination of an indoor and outdoor scene, process the outdoor component first.

Nighttime outdoor crime scenes are especially problematic. Regardless of the quality of the light source used to illuminate the scene, the lack of sunlight can increase the possibility of missing or destroying evidence. Whenever possible, hold and secure outdoor crime scenes for processing until daylight."

Module 02 :: Outdoor Crime Scene
 
FromGermany said:
So the killer's plan would have included a drive to a different place/destination/barn/shack/building, IMO. A waiting car "down the hill" or under the bridge would make a lot of sense, IMO. This car may have been one of two cars, if the killer had an accomplice (one car perhaps at the CBS building).
MOO
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I have thought this too, that private drive is just way too convenient. However, I go back to the timeline involved, and that is a rather narrow window. They'd have to drive them somewhere, commit the crime, drive them back, haul the bodies across the creek....etc. etc. Sounds like too much work to me.

These girls were athletes. They could have outrun BG. They could have gone 'down the hill' and ran on that driveway. Say BG had a gun. Then fear could have prevented them running, and possibly prevented them screaming too. They could have walked compliantly across the creek, out of fear. But my gut says something else. Reason is, there's too many people around, too much chance of being heard. The killer(s) had to incapacitate the girls early in the timeline, so as to not risk being discovered.

I think it was 'down the hill', across the creek, to a known (by the killer(s)) secluded spot that afforded them a chance to do the crime, PLUS an escape route up the hill through the cemetery, or somewhere in close proximity to it.
 
somequestions said:
I wonder if the person who called it in was basing it on the video or on the 1st sketch that had been released at the time?

Here is why I think the 2nd sketch could really confuse people.

Unlike a lot of us that follow the case, most everyone else has either probably not heard about the case or only knows it casually from when it first happened in 2017 when it was big news.

So lets say someone is walking down the street and comes across a poster of either the sketch or the sketch/video image. If they have not been following the case and the April 22, 2019 press conference, wouldn't the casual observer just think that the sketch is based off a close-up of the video? Wouldn't they assume that the man in the video has to be as young as the man in the sketch? By putting the picture from the video on the same poster as the sketch, won't people link the two together?

I know that we do not know what LE does, but in my opinion it comes down to two theories. Either LE is very confident that the new sketch from April is representative of the man on the bridge or LE is wrong and anybody in the public who comes across this poster is going to be looking for the wrong man. People will think the picture from the video and the new sketch are one and the same, even if they are not.

I guess we just have to wait and see when today is the day will be.
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I believe they are one and the same and that LE do too. Could both be wrong though.
 
Charlot123 said:
Evansdale is close to Waterloo in IA, part of its metropolitan center.

Waterloo hosts US Army Reserve and IA National Guard.
Also, bases around Des Moines that is only 2 hours away from Evansdale.

Question, if someone thinks Grissom Air Reserve base, that is pretty large, would the person be expected to serve previously also on the air bases, or do I check other military bases, too? Air bases are logical, right?
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There are also a lot of civilians who work at these bases too, just to complicate things further. Or they could be a reservist only doing two weeks training a year. The connection to Evansdale is very interesting.
 
Ok, I replied to charlot123 above, but for some reason, it is not posting right and I don't see the option to delete my post and try again.
 
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