Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[MingyMoo]

DBM something wacky happening whilst posting.

MM

 

[MingyMoo]

So anyway, my point is, everyone is looking at everyone sideways right now, how do I know? Because I’ve been there.

And nobody recognizes him.

Hmm, so maybe the question for locals is, then, who HAVEN’T you seen for a while? Anyone who suddenly doesn’t come to church anymore, or to ball games, idk...

Snipped by me. In response to your last question above.

Perhaps locals do see or hear him every day or most days but don't know him personally. I have a working theory once again purely subjective and I am not willing to elaborate. Suffice to say I am now running out of theories. However I do think LE know the who, they know the how they may even know the why! They just cant place the person at the sceen. Therefore my subjective theory is probably irrlevent.

Pondering as always
MingyMoo

 

[margarita25]

For some reason I have a nagging feeling about places like Chicago and Indianapolis JMO MOO , something about the semi-local thing, not that close but close enough to take a little “trip”, past ties, traveling Hunter...anyway my profile imo. So I want to keep my eyes on other cases and cities as well.

Traveling for work?

ETA:
Me=Gerbil spinning

 

[margarita25]

Snipped by me. In response to your last question above.

Perhaps locals do see or hear him every day or most days but don't know him personally. I have a working theory once again purely subjective and I am not willing to elaborate. Suffice to say I am now running out of theories. However I do think LE know the who, they know the how they may even know the why! They just cant place the person at the sceen. Therefore my subjective theory is probably irrlevent.

Pondering as always
MingyMoo

Pondering as always here too. I appreciate the conversation. It is CRAZY how differently we all think about this. Hopefully the jury will be collective when they finally find this monster, the right monster. (There seems to be so many, how sad is it that we’ve had so many people to consider so far...people from other threads in here related to other crimes...)

See, it’s funny because if there is one theory I’m completely against, respectfully of course, it’s that they DO know who it is and just can’t prove it. That one is definitely off the board for me, but who really knows right?

These threads alone are a fascinating study of how differently people can perceive and interpret information.

I enjoy the diversity.

This is one heck of a mystery I’ll tell ya. It sure will be interesting to say the least to find out who “BG” ultimately is.

 

[Charlot123]

For some reason I have a nagging feeling about places like Chicago and Indianapolis JMO MOO , something about the semi-local thing, not that close but close enough to take a little “trip”, past ties, traveling Hunter...anyway my profile imo. So I want to keep my eyes on other cases and cities as well.

Traveling for work?

ETA:
Me=Gerbil spinning

I was in Chicago, beautiful city, but historically, it stands in the memory for its gangs and “that semi-local thing going” with the police in the 30-es, too. Also, historians still diverge on the true players behind theValentine day.
(Still wonder if some SK kept something sinister - Valentine day massacre - in mind, or the snow day was relevant, pointing to someone local).

 

[margarita25]

As the cliche goes, a secret can only be kept within a party of 1......and sometimes that is impossible.

and I will admit that an earlier post I made, I was convinced this was done by more than 1. Im all over the place.

We’re ALL all over the place LOL.
How can we not be? We have to two sketches, bridge images that everyone sees differently, and an age range from LE of 18-40!


(ETA:
Way back I facetiously posted a link about how we’ve finally figured out what BG’s is - it was a link to “Occupations A-Z”

I think @sillybilly said it best when he/she posted how we’ve finally found out where BG is - it was an image of a spinning globe. I’d like to see that post again so I can pull the exact quote. It was posted somewhere around the time things were intense and people were arguing and @skibaboo posted “For the love of Mike!”

 

[JnRyan]

For some reason I have a nagging feeling about places like Chicago and Indianapolis JMO MOO , something about the semi-local thing, not that close but close enough to take a little “trip”, past ties, traveling Hunter...anyway my profile imo. So I want to keep my eyes on other cases and cities as well.

Traveling for work?

ETA:
Me=Gerbil spinning

I believe that is very likely. Say, maybe someone who lived there for 2-3 years in middle school or would visit a relative there when they were growing up.

 

[margarita25]

We've actually had quite a few murders in the past couple of years where young people have been killed by angry young men in public places without a sexual motive.

Sexual assault is the most common motive for the murder of a girl but it certainly is not the only one. The common trait in the non-sexual assault murders is anger.

Beau of the Fifth Column (A Youtuber who does political analysis) posted a video a few months ago that I thought was interesting. He pointed out that mass shootings are replacing serial killing in our current world and how similar the two populations of murders are:

Is it possible that the Delphi murders were one of these blended grievance crimes and Abby and Libby just happened to be in the wrong place?

Well, I have ADD honestly when it comes to these kinds of videos so I can’t get through it, but I hear your point, can this be some angry dude who just goes out and kills a couple of young girls-

However, if we are going to talk about the psychology between a crime like this and a mass shooting, I could write a BOOK on how they’re different, not trying to sound cocky.

Again, anything is possible, and maybe some dude just wanted to kill people.

But with mass shooters, their motives and elements are often related to notoriety, mass casualties, automatic rifles...

I see these to be completely different crimes from a forensic psychology perspective as related to mass shooters.

But I’m open to entertaining any similarities. There is such a thing as thrill kills, and things along those lines.

Again, who really knows.

IF we are going to talk about mass shooters, though, then I would have to bring forward my studies on profiling these mass shooters which imo is OT - my current “mini-study” includes 10 mass shooters: the one thing they do have in common is that usually they are loners and have some sort of political grievance to which they attempt to attribute to their own internal anger and hate—while they may share some commonalities, mass shooters are a totally different beast in my opinion but again anything is possible.

ETA:

Re: “We've actually had quite a few murders in the past couple of years where young people have been killed by angry young men in public places without a sexual motive.”

Can you please provide examples? I’m not challenging you in a snarky way, I’m seriously asking because I have sincerely asked about this before and I’m yet to find cases where an older male kills a young female (exception again familial homicides, gang related, etc. ) and the motive is not SA. Where are these cases? I’m not seeing any, tia. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist...I’m honestly curious.

This guy is a PREDATOR, moo.

—-

ETA2: You do have me thinking about this aspect of “hate” and “anger” though. I will venture these two type of beasts possibly share that trait.

Perhaps he does political, etc. post rants on SM. Or not.

Maybe there is some sort of natural evolution here where modern day SK meets elements of a mass shooter.

I see this guy as a hunter, in all sense of the word.

He chooses this location because it’s where he feels comfortable. And best able to commit to commit his crimes.

Why was he on the bridge that day? Looking for victims. Boogeyman (hiding?) in the Woods. Waiting. Stalking.

 

[Charlot123]

See, it’s funny because if there is one theory I’m completely against, respectfully of course, it’s that they DO know who it is and just can’t prove it. That one is definitely off the board for me, but who really knows right?

These threads alone are a fascinating study of how differently people can perceive and interpret information.

This is one heck of a mystery I’ll tell ya. It sure will be interesting to say the least to find out who “BG” ultimately is.

Snipped by me.
Logically, that LE know and don’t do anything about it makes no sense to me either. Between covering someone up and unwillingness to admit own incompetence and trivial mistakes, i’d choose the second one. It could explain why the case is held too tight to the vest now.

The only way I can explain them knowing and making nothing about would be if we consider the interrelatedness of the locals. I still don’t think it would be enough to cover someone up.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Did you notice what she said on the pinned tweet at the top?
BBM
[Libby got a video that recorded his voice and a blurry picture of him walking towards them.]

I don't know how much stock to put into these things, and family isn't told everything, but to me that sounds like the "down the hill" was captured during a video. I don't know if that's the same video as the bridge video, because several LE statements sounded like they were separate recordings, but who knows. Pretty curious.

Also in the comments of that tweet, someone asks if they were SA. Poor Kelsi. Here's Kelsi's answer:

It’s never been released but I think it’s safe to assume that they probably were. Could be wrong though

You have to be careful putting too much weight on what Kelsi says as she has misspoken a couple of times. One example is the number of people who were at the site when she dropped the girls off. She subsequently walked that back to a significantly lower number.

Re the underlined words, the exact opposite is true. Libby took a video of BG, not a picture, and she took 2 Snapchat photos, one of the bridge and the one of Abby. LE released 3 still frames from that video. As I posted earlier, in early 2017 you could only do one 10-second video on an iPhone. However, you could record voices for 30 minutes or perhaps longer depending on available storage.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...record-longer-videos-multi-snap-a8017096.html

 

[TL4S]

You have to be careful putting too much weight on what Kelsi says as she has misspoken a couple of times. One example is the number of people who were at the site when she dropped the girls off. She subsequently walked that back to a significantly lower number.

Re the underlined words, the exact opposite is true. Libby took a video of BG, not a picture, and she took 2 Snapchat photos, one of the bridge and the one of Abby. LE released 3 still frames from that video. As I posted earlier, in early 2017 you could only do one 10-second video on an iPhone. However, you could record voices for 30 minutes or perhaps longer depending on available storage.

This is how to record 60-second videos on Snapchat

You're right. I agree, it isn't to be taken as fact. Good to point that out.

 

[Righttable]

I know a lot of people think LE is saying the perp is local because of how he navigated the area/the bridge, but this isn't the direction they seemed to initially take. Originally it seemed that they were thinking more along the lines of it being a serial killer, or someone passing through. Then the April presser happened, and the investigation started to look closer to home. This makes me think they have new information that indicates he is familiar with Delphi.

 

[Maplesyrup]

I am at heart still of a mind that the perpetrator knew the area. It is a purely subjective and personal opinion thought. However Abby also had hands in pockets and was looking down.

Just an observation.
MingyMoo

Edited reworded for a bit of clarity.

How close to the end of the bridge was Abby when she was looking down? How far was she from the ground beneath the bridge? I understand we look down to see where we are walking [so she obviously didn't fall through holes in the MHB]. Don't discount the possibility she was looking down at something on the ground. Was he down there loitering? Something to consider.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I know a lot of people think LE is saying the perp is local because of how he navigated the area/the bridge, but this isn't the direction they seemed to initially take. Originally it seemed that they were thinking more along the lines of it being a serial killer, or someone passing through. Then the April presser happened, and the investigation started to look closer to home. This makes me think they have new information that indicates he is familiar with Delphi.

I think you’re absolutely right. Early on LE was putting up billboards nationwide, and papering truck stops with flyers. That doesn’t sound like they thought he was local back then.
But, LE was also running down every RSO around which, to me, seems to me to mean they thought BG was local and that the girls showed signs of actual or attempted SA. Sadly.
So even back then we were confronted with contradictory actions by LE.

 

[Charlot123]

Well, I have ADD honestly when it comes to these kinds of videos so I can’t get through it, but I hear your point, can this be some angry dude who just goes out and kills a couple of young girls-

However, if we are going to talk about the psychology between a crime like this and a mass shooting, I could write a BOOK on how they’re different, not trying to sound cocky.

Again, anything is possible, and maybe some dude just wanted to kill people.

But with mass shooters, their motives and elements are often related to notoriety, mass casualties, automatic rifles...

I see these to be completely different crimes from a forensic psychology perspective as related to mass shooters.

But I’m open to entertaining any similarities. There is such a thing as thrill kills, and things along those lines.

Again, who really knows.

IF we are going to talk about mass shooters, though, then I would have to bring forward my studies on profiling these mass shooters which imo is OT - my current “mini-study” includes 10 mass shooters: the one thing they do have in common is that usually they are loners and have some sort of political grievance to which they attempt to attribute to their own internal anger and hate—while they may share some commonalities, mass shooters are a totally different beast in my opinion but again anything is possible.

ETA:

Re: “We've actually had quite a few murders in the past couple of years where young people have been killed by angry young men in public places without a sexual motive.”

Can you please provide examples? I’m not challenging you in a snarky way, I’m seriously asking because I have sincerely asked about this before and I’m yet to find cases where an older male kills a young female (exception again familial homicides, gang related, etc. ) and the motive is not SA. Where are these cases? I’m not seeing any, tia. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist...I’m honestly curious.

This guy is a PREDATOR, moo.

—-

ETA2: You do have me thinking about this aspect of “hate” and “anger” though. I will venture these two type of beasts possibly share that trait.

Perhaps he does political, etc. post rants on SM. Or not.

Maybe there is some sort of natural evolution here where modern day SK meets elements of a mass shooter.

I see this guy as a hunter, in all sense of the word.

He chooses this location because it’s where he feels comfortable. And best able to commit to commit his crimes.

Why was he on the bridge that day? Looking for victims. Boogeyman (hiding?) in the Woods. Waiting. Stalking.

BBM. They are not quite different, but this saying, that if till 24 one did not become mass murderer, the risk is much lower...It makes sense; boys mature.
Statistically, SKs are older. It is more the aberration of a mature brain, and maybe a deeper aberration per se, often coupled with some sexual inadequacy, anger and occasionally, first accidental experience of satisfaction that later becomes modus operandi.
Mass shooters are sadistic en masse, but not always individually. They act partially out of despair. With SK, it is deep-rooted individual sadism.

I also think that mass shooting behavior is more hardwired evolutionary, in the form of mass killings.

What would societies, for centuries, do with their pool of young males, especially when food was scarce? Send them to expeditions, overseas, to conquer and pillage, do something that would provide outlet to their antisocial tendencies. (It would be too dangerous to keep all of them at home). And then they’d get older, come back, get married and settle down, become husbands, fathers and neighbors.

Mass murderers form the bulk of historical novels, and not necessarily portrayed in a negative way. Alexander the Great’s warriors, Knights Templars, Achilles, the list is long.

While SK behavior is about neighborhood predators, such as vampires, Draculas, etc. It ends up with a silver bullet, or a wooden stake through the heart, they are feared, but mostly, hated.

ETA: @margarita25, I don’t know why you think he is the hunter, but in my subconscious, he is connected to the woods, those of Transylvania with its monsters.

And about real profession, he either served abroad and after discharge, did not settle down like everyone else but started inflicting terror in the neighborhood, or else, he is a retired athlete (also aggressive pastime for the young) who turned into the same (neighborhood ”vampire”). He might collect paraphernalia from the past, such as knives, or arbalets. And he lives somewhat separately, but close by.

 

[cody22]

***........moo

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I think you’re absolutely right. Early on LE was putting up billboards nationwide, and papering truck stops with flyers. That doesn’t sound like they thought he was local back then.
But, LE was also running down every RSO around which, to me, seems to me to mean they thought BG was local and that the girls showed signs of actual or attempted SA. Sadly.
So even back then we were confronted with contradictory actions by LE.

It is my understanding that in any missing child case, checking on RSO’s is standard operating procedure. That in itself should not indicate there was SA on Libby/Abby.
I’m not saying there was no SA...
About the billboards, I wondered if maybe LE thought BG was a trucker, because those were placed along highways, IIRC.
MOO

 

[margarita25]

Earlier I stated “But with mass shooters, their motives and elements are often related to notoriety, mass casualties, automatic rifles...”

I do want to clarify that some SKs are motivated by the aspect of notoriety, but with the mass shooters it’s like a type of martyrdom, they don’t mind dying in the process. With SKs, there seems to be a clear differentiation between the hunter and the hunted.

There are some similarities again, not discounting that, as ultimately both of their goals are to kill, but as @Charlot123 mentioned, there is that element of sexual sadism, etc.

Is he a sadist? Only LE knows. My guess would be yes he is, moo.

It is my understanding that in any missing child case, checking on RSO’s is standard operating procedure. That in itself should not indicate there was SA on Libby/Abby.
I’m not saying there was no SA...
About the billboards, I wondered if maybe LE thought BG was a trucker, because those were placed along highways, IIRC.
MOO

Yes, agreed, was going to say the same thing about the RSOs and SP.

As for trucker, I’d be willing to bet this is something that they have strongly considered.

Was it 6000 billboards they originally had? Are they all gone now?

Something made them really shift focus, or “hone in” back in April. I wonder what that was.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Earlier I stated “But with mass shooters, their motives and elements are often related to notoriety, mass casualties, automatic rifles...”

I do want to clarify that some SKs are motivated by the aspect of notoriety, but with the mass shooters it’s like a type of martyrdom, they don’t mind dying in the process. With SKs there seems to be a clear differentiation between the hunter and the hunter.

There are some similarities again, not discounting that, as ultimately both of their goals are to kill, but as @Charlot123 mentioned, there is that element of sexual sadism, etc.

Is he a sadist? Only LE knows. My guess would be yes he is, moo.



Yes, agreed, was going to say the same thing about the RSOs and SP.

As for trucker, I’d be willing to bet this is something that they have strongly considered.

Was it 6000 billboards they originally had? Are they all gone now?

Something made them really shift focus, or “hone in” back in April. I wonder what that was.

I wish those billboard locations had been mapped out back then :/ Not that I know how to do that, but I think it may have given us clues?

 

[Charlot123]

Earlier I stated “But with mass shooters, their motives and elements are often related to notoriety, mass casualties, automatic rifles...”

I do want to clarify that some SKs are motivated by the aspect of notoriety, but with the mass shooters it’s like a type of martyrdom, they don’t mind dying in the process. With SKs, there seems to be a clear differentiation between the hunter and the hunted.

There are some similarities again, not discounting that, as ultimately both of their goals are to kill, but as @Charlot123 mentioned, there is that element of sexual sadism, etc.

Is he a sadist? Only LE knows. My guess would be yes he is, moo.



Yes, agreed, was going to say the same thing about the RSOs and SP.

As for trucker, I’d be willing to bet this is something that they have strongly considered.

Was it 6000 billboards they originally had? Are they all gone now?

Something made them really shift focus, or “hone in” back in April. I wonder what that was.

This is the thing! Young mass shooters are driven by Herostratus complex, burn down the temple and get known, I think I wrote about it. To leave one’s name in Wikipedia after doing a heinous crime is their goal. And they don’t mind dying at all. But even the diaries of Eric Harris contain no specific hatred of women, rather, the opposite.


Serial killers prefer to stay unknown. This is why they often operate in dusk, or in hidden places. Yes, they are driven by sadism; if nothing else, even the horror the Delphi girls felt before their deaths was the act of a morbidly sadistic person.

ETA: MOO

ETA: let us deprive him of the “Bridge Guy” notoriety.

How about addressing him as “Delphi sadist”, or “Delphi butcher”?