Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

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link to transcript of April 2019 presser with the mentioning of audio and video

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

Just a few thoughts
MOO the audio was on the whole time (however long that was) when she was actually getting him on video, so with that I believe while he is walking toward them, the girls are discussing him and options of what to do or maybe where to go. So not wanting to be caught recording him, either she pointed phone away or obscured it or tucked it in her pocket while still recording with audio still on. Maybe they decided to walk back and chance passing him and by then he was close enough to say and be recorded "guys". The "down the hill" could be shortly after that or even before we just don't know. MOO is that the 4 words are not from the same sentence.

The mudering needs to be caught now!
Let today be the day.
Again MOO
 
I brought this up about a year ago.

How do we know that the guy in the blue jacket that some call Bridge Guy is the killer? What if he is some guy who happened to be on the trail, walked by the girls, and a minute later the real killer came from somewhere and the rest is history?

Not sure if this has been answered. We don't, not 100%, but LE went from saying he was a potential witness, just someone they wanted to talk to, begged for them to come forward, to calling him a Person of Interest, and I think within a short period of time after that, to saying he was the killer. I presume that it is because he is the only person from that day that did not come forward. In this small town, that was an unbelieveably huge crime with not that many people there that day. I would guess that they were sure they heard from everyone that was seen that day except for him. I suppose it could be a huge coincidence that there was a random out of towner there just for one day that never heard about the murders, never watches the news. Or/and based on the timing of the video, they are sure that there couldn't have been anyone else there who interacted with the girls.

Sorry I can't go back right now and look through the media links to identify when he went from a mere POI to presumed killer, but I'll try if I can later.
 
It's not really secluded down the hill. That gravel access road dominates the area. When I visited last November that road was covered with leaves and mostly blended into the terrain. I was very surprised when I looked at videos from February and March 2017 toward how white and prominent that access road is during full blown winter. Bridge Guy couldn't risk that type of thing. When you are looking down from the end of the bridge at that time of year the gravel road slices through and basically defines the area. There isn't a good spot on the near side of the creek to commit the murders and be confident you have plenty of time to get away before they are discovered. The area is not dense at all. Lots of thin trees spaced well apart.

Contrast to the opposite side of the creek. It wouldn't take many visits at all to understand how secluded it is. The murders site can't be seen from anywhere on the bridge. It can't be seen approaching the bridge on the north side. Basically the only spots with a view are the far left corner of the one home atop the ridge, and anyone descending on Ron Logan's property down from the cemetery area.

Those two risks basically aren't risks at all. We've seen the photo taken from the corner of that home. Yeah, that's like crossing the bridge in the first place. How often do you think it happens -- looking in that specific direction -- let alone in the exact time frame? Then across the creek all you'd have to do is visit one time to realize there are no footprints, no wrappers or typical debris, no evidence whatsoever of foot traffic even once per year.

He picked a perfect spot. He was greatly aided by the basic fact that there is nobody on those trails. Always ignore the hype of 10 people, of 20 people, of 70 people, and you'll never go wrong.

Notice in all the available videos of the bridge area from 2017 through 2020 that we never see the videographers run into anyone. You would think just one time they'd say wow look here comes a party of four on the trail. Doesn't happen. No matter now many times these guys go out there they run into nobody. That should be a minor hint toward the realities of early 2017 also. Give me the under.

One of the biggest arguments against this is that BG would not want to cross the creek because the water would be cold. Which to me, is ridiculous. This guy is going to murder two girls in cold blood and in broad daylight and he's going to worry about getting his feet wet? I don't think so.

The other question which always nags at me, and I'm not sure we'll ever know the answer to, is did the crime go as the killer planned?

That is, was it his intent to spend so little time with his victims to leave them fairly in the open, or did he, like Lizzy & Lyric's killer, intend to take them away somewhere more secluded in his car, take his time doing whatever horrible things he wanted, and then dispose of the bodies elsewhere? Anything could have interrupted his plan. People potentially coming by, one or both of the girls running, one of the girls fighting that led him to cut short whatever dastardly deeds he planned and make the kill and get out of there. For some reason, I tend to think the way the murders went down were not entirely aligned with his original plan. Either way though, could lead to vastly different conclusions about the motive, the M.O., and the murdered themselves. I certainly hope LE knows, or at least has a strong evidence-backed theory.
 
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I understand and your onto it for sure , but why not the other side!! why not ahead where it's dense as well why not right there ?? I think they did run ? The gap between "guys" and "down the hill" when he says down the hill it's a more aggressive tone then the guys like he's saying it out of frustration more then anger even though they tie together if that makes sense
 
I'm not doubting Kelsie's statement about giving the girls warmer clothing. I was asking if, as you speculate, that the photo was not taken that day, why has nobody eg LE, family member said so. I know there has been various theories on the Snapchat time of 2.07 but as far as I know, no one has ever said forget about that time. It wasn't taken the same day because Abbey was wearing different clothing.
 
How exactly do you think the killer will be caught? It’s been three years. Here’s some scenarios I’ve thought of, from most likely in my opinion to least likely.

1) He attempts to kidnap and kill again but this time the victim gets away and is able to give LE a very good description along with other info like a car description etc. It is all tied in to Delphi murders. Arrest.
2) He kills again. This time there is evidence at the crime scene that clearly points to one person. Tied to Delphi murders. Arrest.
3) Someone finds something linked to the crime in a drawer, under a bed, in the back of a storage shed, etc. They call LE and it is kept hush hush while police investigate. A couple of weeks later the killer is arrested.
4) LE arrests the killer through their investigation.
5) Someone calls the tip line and tells LE who it is. After checking things out, the killer is arrested.

On further review I think I would put #3 as my most likely scenario.
Just my thoughts.
How do y’all think it will come down?
1 or 2. #3 is a very, very slight possibility. I don't believe #4 because without a tip I believe LE is at a stand still. And while I'm at it, I don't have much faith in #5 as I don't believe this coward has confided in anyone at this point and won't likely do so.
 
Maybe you've already discussed this. But have any of you seen the masks that are so realistic, it looks like the person's real face, when they really don't look anything like the mask? I think I've heard of three cases.
The first hit that I got when I did a search was for a man arrested in the North Huntingdon area of Pennsylvania, and it was from KXAN.com in Austin, Texas. If you check out the photo, the mask is nothing short of major creepy. The guy's name is listed as Luke Dell.
Another case goes back as far as September, 2014, and I believe it's in Pennsylvania, as well. Lansdale/Chalfont in the Philadelphia area. That guy was wearing a mask and a wig.
The other one, the one I was most familiar with, they showed video or a photo of a guy robbing a bank, someone identified the guy and though it looks just like him, it wasn't that man. The robber was wearing a mask. I can't find info on that one right now.
Or, maybe the killer disguised himself in some other way
before he met up with the girls.
Does this help in any way?
 
1 or 2. #3 is a very, very slight possibility. I don't believe #4 because without a tip I believe LE is at a stand still. And while I'm at it, I don't have much faith in #5 as I don't believe this coward has confided in anyone at this point and won't likely do so.
But, no one is perfect. Sooner or later, the killer is going to slip up.
 
Yeah, but they were found! Don't you think the police would know if the clothing in the photo was different than the clothing they were found in? I think its safe to believe them when they say what time the photo was taken. I can see what time all my photos were taken. Open the photo, swipe it up, there's the date and time stamp. That easy. They have her phone. It was found near the girls at the crime scene. Becky talked about it last week in her interview with tricia. I don't think it really debatable.

What do you mean, “not debatable”? In a case like this, where there has been so much information left by the victim, to no avail? When everyone who knows about this case, is asking, why? Why can’t they find him?
It is a very interesting, and absolutely baffling case. Where everything is debatable.

I also believe he's perfectly tech savvy. He left the phone at the CS, instead of taking it with him. Taking it with him would have meant he could destroy it, and the video would have been lost forever.

But he didn't take it, he was scared of taking it with him, or planned that in advance. Don't take anything from the victims, or don't take anything which can be easily and quickly traceable. Which would take some planning, and maybe some quick decision-making at the scene. A killer might be tempted to take trophies or what have you, but some I'm sure resist the temptation

We don't know what condition the phone itself was in when it was found, all we know is what LE have mentioned about it being found at the CS.

JMO

And yet I believe he had own burner phone, because it seems he has earbuds. And somehow, he knew when to appear on the bridge. The bridge is easily seen from many vantage points, but he had to know that they went there. So, either hacked into their phone/SM, or kid was on their SM, or himself was a SM friend? Seen some photos? Heard Libby calling dad? How? These days I assume you can trace people’s GPS, if they enable locations, but again, whoever it was, was not of average IQ...
 
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Maybe you've already discussed this. But have any of you seen the masks that are so realistic, it looks like the person's real face, when they really don't look anything like the mask? I think I've heard of three cases.
The first hit that I got when I did a search was for a man arrested in the North Huntingdon area of Pennsylvania, and it was from KXAN.com in Austin, Texas. If you check out the photo, the mask is nothing short of major creepy. The guy's name is listed as Luke Dell.
Another case goes back as far as September, 2014, and I believe it's in Pennsylvania, as well. Lansdale/Chalfont in the Philadelphia area. That guy was wearing a mask and a wig.
The other one, the one I was most familiar with, they showed video or a photo of a guy robbing a bank, someone identified the guy and though it looks just like him, it wasn't that man. The robber was wearing a mask. I can't find info on that one right now.
Or, maybe the killer disguised himself in some other way
before he met up with the girls.
Does this help in any way?

Yes. I even found an Etsy store with very realistic masks. Not cheap. But someone found a 30-dollar nose and eyebrows on eBay, looked pretty good, too.
 
I have a question, don’t know if we discussed it. Everyone says, an avid hunter, an outdoorsman. The first thing that comes to my mind when I think of a hunter is a dog. Tell me if I am wrong.
So where is the dog in that story? Was the god/dogs left at home? Perhaps, if it was planned. But still, no animal hair on the girls?

P.S. There were some dogs in the story, allegedly, but only in some YouTubes, with a woman.

Doglessness doesn’t fit an avid hunter
 
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It's not really secluded down the hill. That gravel access road dominates the area. When I visited last November that road was covered with leaves and mostly blended into the terrain. I was very surprised when I looked at videos from February and March 2017 toward how white and prominent that access road is during full blown winter. Bridge Guy couldn't risk that type of thing. When you are looking down from the end of the bridge at that time of year the gravel road slices through and basically defines the area. There isn't a good spot on the near side of the creek to commit the murders and be confident you have plenty of time to get away before they are discovered. The area is not dense at all. Lots of thin trees spaced well apart.

Contrast to the opposite side of the creek. It wouldn't take many visits at all to understand how secluded it is. The murders site can't be seen from anywhere on the bridge. It can't be seen approaching the bridge on the north side. Basically the only spots with a view are the far left corner of the one home atop the ridge, and anyone descending on Ron Logan's property down from the cemetery area.

Those two risks basically aren't risks at all. We've seen the photo taken from the corner of that home. Yeah, that's like crossing the bridge in the first place. How often do you think it happens -- looking in that specific direction -- let alone in the exact time frame? Then across the creek all you'd have to do is visit one time to realize there are no footprints, no wrappers or typical debris, no evidence whatsoever of foot traffic even once per year.

He picked a perfect spot. He was greatly aided by the basic fact that there is nobody on those trails. Always ignore the hype of 10 people, of 20 people, of 70 people, and you'll never go wrong.

Notice in all the available videos of the bridge area from 2017 through 2020 that we never see the videographers run into anyone. You would think just one time they'd say wow look here comes a party of four on the trail. Doesn't happen. No matter now many times these guys go out there they run into nobody. That should be a minor hint toward the realities of early 2017 also. Give me the under.

Thanks again for the insight, we all appreciate it. You went there and can share details of the terrain most of us wouldn't know.

I agree with your assessment here 100%. When I drove C.R. 300 on a beautiful August weekend day in 2017, nobody was driving on the road. I'd describe it as kind of a shortcut for folks who don't live right in that area.

A woman was walking her dog along there closer to the Andersons facility, I think maybe to check a mailbox.

Minutes earlier, I drove by the parking area on the other side of IN 25. Again, I don't recall seeing a vehicle, maybe one was there, you'd have to strain your neck while driving by to look back and up at the parking area. The parking area there is from soil moved to that spot from excavation done when the highway was put through in 2014, for reference in case anyone wants to know.

Two fishermen were parked on C.R. 425, and were fishing by the Wilson Bridge.

I saw no vehicles on 425 and 200, heading to U.S. 421. Only when I got to 421 did I see vehicle traffic of any mention.

I'd describe C.R. 300 as "desolate". I was there right before harvest season gets rolling, and Andersons was closed. Desolate, serene, quiet, idyllic, etc. I heard a train hit the horn in the distance, and I heard bugs buzzing. That was it for noise.

I'm picturing someone who knows all this, but who had scouted out other sites to fulfill his fantasy. MHB probably fit the profile of the perfect place for him to carry out the fantasy. He'd been there before, maybe many times previous. But MHB was where he'd try to pull off his scheme and make a name for himself.

JMO
 
Definitely. I have minor disputes with family members all the time on this topic. They always want to zoom in on a picture or sporting event -- or whatever -- while I prefer the long range focus. I'm convinced it captures perspective in far superior fashion.

In this case I can't see a darn thing from all the blurry zoomed or amended frames. Almost without exception it is promoting a bias. Somebody thinks they have detected something and wants the world to marvel at their discovery. Meanwhile it's a wash of pixeled nothingness.

I can't see a young guy at all in the touted specific zoomed frames. But it is easy for me to see a young guy from the handful of photos originally released in 2017, especially one of them.

I have long argued that we'd be far better off toward identification if the original video were released instead of merely a cropped segment including Bridge Guy. We'd own all the spacial reference points. It's like driving down the road and not paying attention. But all of a sudden you glimpse someone who was walking alongside as you flashed past him. Hey, I know that guy. Merely the height and the angles of his shoulders, etc. tipped you toward who it was.

Law enforcement had that idea in this case but I don't think they realized the heavily cropped version wouldn't be as effective. They probably don't want to release the entirety because Abby is almost certainly the focus and her facial expression could indicate she's increasingly uncomfortable.

I think they can “square out” Abby, like I do on photos of historical places, because one is not supposed to post unknown people, right? If I can do it on a photo, surely, Disney can do it on a video?

You mentioning Abby makes sense. As I am looking at people’s FBs (totally unrelated to this case, merely friends’ ones), I can see how a girl of Abby’s type could become a target. Maybe she was the intended victim, and Libby was the uncomfortable witness that broke everything, hence, the anger, the rage. Also, I think, the killer has a personality disorder, his world is split and easily changes from idealization to devaluation. it is probably seen in the crime. Maybe this is why DC who knows more than us alluded to religion, for someone it could be an attempt to glue together something that can not be mended.

Well, Easter. Catholic/Protestant was last week, Greek Orthodox just had passed. As people think of forgiveness and redemption. I understand that the murderer is not going to repent. And suicide for him is probably a sin, although religious people differ on it. I am sure there are ways out of the situation that are at least more decent. He probably has relatives, maybe many, there are huge lines in Indiana. I think there are ways of dealing with it that would at least untaint the name.
 
Which leads to the question of how much touch dna was actually on her clothing? Which may be the issue. moo

I was thinking about it. But there is no way there was no DNA under Libby’s nails, unless he took care of it.

I wonder if the DNA under Libby’s nails and touch DNA on Abby are of different type, and for some reason, only touch DNA is of a concern.
 
One of the biggest arguments against this is that BG would not want to cross the creek because the water would be cold. Which to me, is ridiculous. This guy is going to murder two girls in cold blood and in broad daylight and he's going to worry about getting his feet wet? I don't think so.

The other question which always nags at me, and I'm not sure we'll ever know the answer to, is did the crime go as the killer planned?

That is, was it his intent to spend so little time with his victims to leave them fairly in the open, or did he, like Lizzy & Lyric's killer, intend to take them away somewhere more secluded in his car, take his time doing whatever horrible things he wanted, and then dispose of the bodies elsewhere? Anything could have interrupted his plan. People potentially coming by, one or both of the girls running, one of the girls fighting that led him to cut short whatever dastardly deeds he planned and make the kill and get out of there. For some reason, I tend to think the way the murders went down were not entirely aligned with his original plan. Either way though, could lead to vastly different conclusions about the motive, the M.O., and the murdered themselves. I certainly hope LE knows, or at least has a strong evidence-backed theory.

L&E were abducted quickly and put into a vehicle.

A&L were approached on foot from afar, forced to walk what I'd say is a significant distance for them to end up murdered, etc. I've thought most of this entire time that the murderer had that all planned out, but...

At the back of the cemetery the property "dips" towards the fence there, above the small abandoned quarry. Easy to conceal a small or medium-sized sedan, and people driving by would not notice it.

That said, I think BG wanted to keep as low a profile as possible, and he had enough variables he had that needed to work virtually 100% in his favor. When it was revealed that people or a person saw him after the murders, I was floored. That whole time prior to that revelation I'd assumed BG left via the cemetery, but hindsight being 20/20 it makes sense. I don't think BG was concerned about being ID'd there that day, that is no one would recognize him, and also I think he was banking on no one really remembering what he looked like afterwards.

People were out there at the trails doing whatever it is they normally do there, albeit on an unseasonably warm Winter day. BG didn't rob a bank in downtown Delphi with 10 witnesses standing there, he looked like an ordinary guy walking a trail near the MHB.

I'll have more about my theory re: BG's appearance in a post here shortly...

JMO
 
Maybe you've already discussed this. But have any of you seen the masks that are so realistic, it looks like the person's real face, when they really don't look anything like the mask? I think I've heard of three cases.
The first hit that I got when I did a search was for a man arrested in the North Huntingdon area of Pennsylvania, and it was from KXAN.com in Austin, Texas. If you check out the photo, the mask is nothing short of major creepy. The guy's name is listed as Luke Dell.
Another case goes back as far as September, 2014, and I believe it's in Pennsylvania, as well. Lansdale/Chalfont in the Philadelphia area. That guy was wearing a mask and a wig.
The other one, the one I was most familiar with, they showed video or a photo of a guy robbing a bank, someone identified the guy and though it looks just like him, it wasn't that man. The robber was wearing a mask. I can't find info on that one right now.
Or, maybe the killer disguised himself in some other way
before he met up with the girls.
Does this help in any way?

CS, this is something that has bothered me for some time, and it may explain something.

The two sketches.

I've thought for some time BG used a skin-tight mask at some point during this set of crimes. As you mentioned, other criminals have done so, and gosh look at how much it can change someone's appearance.

I'm of the opinion people saw what we know as the two sketches, that day near the MHB. LE have said even recently, as recently as the latest program about the murders which was during an episode of John Walsh's latest show, that BG could be a combination of the two sketches. I'd wondered why they've gone back to that, it contradicts other comments about this case made by LE in earlier times where they said "disregard" the sketch from 2017.

This is the only explanation I can come up with. That, and I've wondered how one sketch looks like a middle-aged guy, vs. the one released a year ago that to me looks like a kid, or young man. They very well could both be of the same person.

I've said since early on BG disguised himself, he doesn't dress in work clothes like those in the video all the time, and he needed a generic outfit for this scenario which played out. The outfit itself is part of the disguise, mark my word. Also the "hunched" appearance I see in the video could maybe partly be explained by a mask which is on the head and the shoulders. This may also explain why we see zero "features" on the face in the video and stills/screen grabs. It's not a real face.

The face and the clothing are plain, generic.

My opinion is one sketch is from before the murders, the other is from afterwards. Same person. Same trail.

JMO
 
I cannot like or understand this enough because I seriously have to disregard it. Could have easily been a parent/grandparent on the trail and could have zero to do with the killer whether you Believe it’s BG or not. MOO
If BG (the guy in the picture) was not the killer, don't you think he would have identified himself as the person on the bridge immediately? In such a serious and tragic situation, any totally innocent person being looked at as a possible murderer of two children would come forward. They would do this to not only to clear themselves but also as a way of helping to find the guilty of these heinous crimes. BG's lack of identifying himself condemns him...along with the audio. AJMO
 
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