Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

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minazoe said:
its always sexual, always. mOO
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I know I've disagreed with a lot you've said on here @minazoe, but this is something that is absolutely true IMO. Sometimes I see people say "maybe it wasn't sexual, maybe he just got a thrill out of killing"...yes, but that thrill is sexual. He may not do anything a normal person would recognize as sexual at the scene, perhaps nothing that would even leave DNA. That's where the signatures often come in. He then re-lives the experience many times over in his sexual fantasies.
 
MistyWaters said:
If this case was misled early on, I’d guess it pertained to this below, a sort of NIMBY, a suggestion of a transient, a stranger just passing through. I can just imagine it led to everyone who regularly drove the highways to start wracking their brains “Did I see somebody, what day was that?”, then maybe even convincing themselves it probably was that particular Monday and sure, his clothing was the same as the guy in the photo which has already been released. It’s simply human nature for human memories to sometimes be influenced by suggestive details. At most, motorists likely would’ve passed by in their vehicle and barely caught a glimpse. But once LE began getting calls by numerous people who all thought they saw the suspect on the highway, it firmed up their theory and thus, the later release of the sketch of the ragged looking guy. As time passed it’s possible many of these witnesses began to become uncertain.

JMO

Feb 20, 2017
See somebody walking near Delphi? Call police
“If you saw a hitchhiker or somebody walking along roads in Delphi last week, the police would like to talk to you. You could help find who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

Police are asking the public to try and remember if you saw somebody Monday, Feb. 13 in the late afternoon or evening.

"We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police...”
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When LE says that BG could be someone who is living in plain sight, how sure are they that he has connections to Delphi?
When they have said this are they trying to imply that they know who it is, without actually telling us (public) who he is?
Essentially, they’re telling him, we know who you are. You know that we know who you are. We want you to know that we know who you are. Etc...?
 
Peppery said:
I would be beyond terrified if I thought I had been that close to a double murderer. Honestly, I’d even be scared to talk to LE, though I absolutely would. If I saw his face that closely then he saw mine just as well and how could I be sure he doesn’t have a way to figure out who I am? Especially now with LE thinking he has ties to Delphi, I wouldn’t bring any public attention to myself or my family. My assumption is that the witness who provided the sketch info a few days later (younger man) was either a mom out there with her kids or a teenager.
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bbm green
In any case it was one person, who saw the person (sketch #2 YBG) and it were several people, who saw the other person (sketch #1 OBG) - do I remember well?
 
MistyWaters said:
That’s what I think as well. They were flooded with a huge amount of tips almost immediately. Much like the search warrant on the Bicycle Road or RL’s property, LE relies on information contained in those tips to lead the investigation forward to an arrest but it doesn’t always pan out that way. Not to say witnesses aren’t truthful, but as nobody witnessed the murders at best they’re providing information hoping it might be helpful - exactly as LE asked for. I’m on the fence as to whether or not the same could be said for witnesses involved with each of the “suspect” sketches.

Leazenby’s comments last April/20 seems to indicate the investigation continues to seek a focus.

JMO

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet
“The Sheriff said evidence is being revisited to determine if there are more leads than were first thought.”
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What, if someone (BG) had interest in RL's property before the date of murder? Someone, who has money and loves the conditions of property like RL's (woods, hills, creeks, grasslands, pastures, rural idyll)?

If RL made acquaintance with a nice, young potencial buyer before the date of murder, would he have brought it into connection with a double killer? If he had a clue, would he have told LE? His friendship with LE wasn't too close, afaik, and his concerns re the person (not to say: fear) might have been too important to him perhaps?

-.-.-
A Happy New Year to all fellow members! Stay safe also in 2021! :)
 
StarryStarryNight said:
This part of the press conference was kinda confusing to me. It does sound like LE is saying the killer mislead them.
Then I think, if LE found out they were mislead, then they obviously know what it was they were mislead about, and they know who supplied that misleading information so...they know who the killer is. But no one is in jail. How can that be? Making sure “I”s are dotted and “t”’s are crossed? We’ve all been saying that since the beginning.
I now interpret those statements at the press conference as meaning LE feels the killer has been following the case, and was watching happily as he saw LE head off in the wrong direction for two years. It was a warning to the killer that things were changing, and a further attempt to rattle his cage.
Almost two years now of the “new direction” and I think almost all of us feel the case is going nowhere.
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I think the reason no arrest has been made is no solid evidence to place the killer at the crime scene and someone is providing an alibi that cannot be broken. Any eye witnesses would just wind up being a he said, she said...not enough to convict. AJMO
 
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Yemelyan said:
The FBI has a proprietary computer system that manages large numbers of tips, it's called Pyramid. From what I understand it cross references them so that you can easily pull up all of the tips out of 40,000 that mentioned, say, a suspicious person wearing a hat, for instance. But there's more to it than that, at least two FBI analysts put their eyes on the tips to vet them....here's a link to a video that explains....Inside the FBI's Internet Tip Line — FBI

I think it didn't take very long before Delphi investigators realized this was a powerful tool that they needed to manage the sheer number of tips coming in. Here's an article where Holeman talks about it: Delphi investigators are comparing tips with cases across the country to find Libby & Abby's killer
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Do you think the FBI taking charge and taking search nationwide possibly changed local's minds about reporting tips? An...Oh look, they seem to think the killers' an outsider so whatever I could contribute about local so and so won't help.
 
UnapologeticallyAspie said:
Signatures that LE/FBI has in their databases that are connected with other murders, or even crime of any kind?
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Signatures can link crimes committed by the same person (because they tend not to change much, being as how they represent deep seated fantasies or psychological needs that are the basis for committing the crime in the first place), but this linkage doesn't define what a signature is.

You can have signatures present in an offender's very first or even only crime. I'll give you an example.

In the murder of Jessica Ridgeway, her killer was caught afterwards so he didn't have a chance to commit other crimes (I have no doubt that he would have if he had remained free). However, there were clear signatures present in the facts of her rape and murder. The one that springs to mind is the fact that he cut Jessica's hair before he killed her. He didn't do that for any practical reason, or part of his MO. He wasn't trying to disguise her and let her go. He cut her hair because something about that action fulfilled a deep psychological need for him. It was likely a psychosexual fantasy wrapped up in some way with domination and control.

It may help to read this recent post from one thread back about what signatures actually are. Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127
 
Spartygirl said:
I know, right???
How the heck does a whole town, keep quiet??
Why???
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This has puzzled me from very early on. The relative silence from the people of Delphi. The buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened among themselves is important in my opinion and pretty much doesn’t exist here. It’s very weird.
 
Yemelyan said:
Signatures can link crimes committed by the same person (because they tend not to change much, being as how they represent deep seated fantasies or psychological needs that are the basis for committing the crime in the first place), but this linkage doesn't define what a signature is.

You can have signatures present in an offender's very first or even only crime. I'll give you an example.

In the murder of Jessica Ridgeway, her killer was caught afterwards so he didn't have a chance to commit other crimes (I have no doubt that he would have if he had remained free). However, there were clear signatures present in the facts of her rape and murder. The one that springs to mind is the fact that he cut Jessica's hair before he killed her. He didn't do that for any practical reason, or part of his MO. He wasn't trying to disguise her and let her go. He cut her hair because something about that action fulfilled a deep psychological need for him. It was likely a psychosexual fantasy wrapped up in some way with domination and control.

It may help to read this recent post from one thread back about what signatures actually are. Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127
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Thank you for your detailed response!
 
Peppery said:
I was thinking more along the lines of dna under their fingernails. If he was close enough to sexually assault them, they would’ve been clawing at him. The only way to prevent dna from getting under their nails is if both had their hands restrained first OR he was completely covered. I’m leaning toward him being covered. Just from the video all we can see is his face. He could’ve had a ski mask on his head/under the hoodie and possibly gloves. There would be very little skin exposed and very slim chances either girl got any dna under her nails.

And on the slim (IMO) chance that this was not a sexually motivated crime, I still think he was very close physically when they were actually murdered. I don’t think they were shot and just about any other MOD would require pretty close physical proximity. That would also allow a good chance for dna under the nails unless he was fully covered. Also the impression LE has given up hat this was especially gruesome scene makes me think he was very close to them. Moo
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Even if they couldn’t scratch him they could have landed some kicks to his arms, torso or chest e.g. That type of bruising could be easily covered up after the crime but could have lasted for quite awhile. LE probably checked film from e.g CVS or Walgreens or Walmart to see if any of their POI’s bought pain relief or elastic bandage type things in few days after. The girls were strong and could have injured him through kicks if their hands were restrained.
 
UnapologeticallyAspie said:
When LE says that BG could be someone who is living in plain sight, how sure are they that he has connections to Delphi?
When they have said this are they trying to imply that they know who it is, without actually telling us (public) who he is?
Essentially, they’re telling him, we know who you are. You know that we know who you are. We want you to know that we know who you are. Etc...?
Click to expand...
I think he lives in plain sight in another state and LE is aware of this.
 
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