Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[Laura456]

So how exactly would releasing more information prevent an eventual conviction? The evidence doesn't lie...

 

[MistyWaters]

So how exactly would releasing more information prevent an eventual conviction? The evidence doesn't lie...

Well one example would be if/when a tip comes in with information somebody has learned from a suspect, details about where or how the murder was committed or something about the crime scene. If that same information was already released to the public then it can’t be used to prosecute as it’s public knowledge. We don’t know what evidence LE has but it appears it doesn’t point to just one single person. If that’s so, then a suspect knowing of certain details never released to the public could be the clincher.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

So how exactly would releasing more information prevent an eventual conviction? The evidence doesn't lie...

...False confessions = reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. How can you be sure its MY client when two other people have admitted it was THEM who committed this crime??

 

[minazoe]

you may wonder are false confessions that common? well I think from prisoners who might claim to know something or confess... to something to try to get attention , favors or deals. Or they brag about stuff they never did to other prisoners and stories spread around.

but do you think that many crazies off the streets just come in and confess?

we really need the FBI crimes unit heavily involved in this, because either there is a crazy boogie man running around killing little girls or this is some other kind of event in which case it might be even more shocking.

frankly the idea of this guy floating around the midwest scares the $$$$ out of me.

I also get this weird feeling about him, like he is a guy who will go into a home and murder a housewife in the middle of the day...definitely a peeper. he has to have neighbors..a community..an apartment, trailer or house...He's for sure a btk type..cool exterior, no empathy, shocking crime scene, arrogant and removed when discussing his 'projects".

I wish we could just tune into his frequency and locate him..

maybe someday we will learn there is a great agent who was working and sweating this
case..who was obsessed with finding BG and we will get to hear how he resolved these
disgusting depressing murders.

mOO

 

[Ozoner]

you may wonder are false confessions that common? well I think from prisoners who might claim to know something or confess... to something to try to get attention , favors or deals. Or they brag about stuff they never did to other prisoners and stories spread around.

but do you think that many crazies off the streets just come in and confess?

we really need the FBI crimes unit heavily involved in this, because either there is a crazy boogie man running around killing little girls or this is some other kind of event in which case it might be even more shocking.

frankly the idea of this guy floating around the midwest scares the $$$$ out of me.

I also get this weird feeling about him, like he is a guy who will go into a home and murder a housewife in the middle of the day...definitely a peeper. he has to have neighbors..a community..an apartment, trailer or house...He's for sure a btk type..cool exterior, no empathy, shocking crime scene, arrogant and removed when discussing his 'projects".

I wish we could just tune into his frequency and locate him..

maybe someday we will learn there is a great agent who was working and sweating this
case..who was obsessed with finding BG and we will get to hear how he resolved these
disgusting depressing murders.

mOO

My biggest concern is that he might be like Israel Keyes and make most of his murders look like accidents. (There may be quite a few serial killers like that out there. How would we know?)

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Hello fellow sleuths.
I had to take a break for personal reasons. I really just wanted to say that I’ve missed y’all, I’m glad to be back, even if it’s only temporary, I’m at least 1-1.5 threads behind which is a bummer for sure but it could be worse, and most importantly I glad to be back following the girls case again.

 

[coastal]

Welcome back!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

For all we know he could download each and every page of these threads as well. But does it matter to us? Not me. My only concern pertaining to him is that he’s eventually convicted.

Of course it doesn't matter, whether he is proudly collecting his "memorabilia" or not. He has done much worse, at least two times and in an evil way.

 

[news buff]

Another quote -

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty...”
Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens | Fox 59

Yes, I saw that quote too. The other quote was quite strange and so stuck out to me. There are so many discrepancies, people just seem to ignore them.

 

[Laura456]

Well one example would be if/when a tip comes in with information somebody has learned from a suspect, details about where or how the murder was committed or something about the crime scene. If that same information was already released to the public then it can’t be used to prosecute as it’s public knowledge. We don’t know what evidence LE has but it appears it doesn’t point to just one single person. If that’s so, then a suspect knowing of certain details never released to the public could be the clincher.

JMO

Isn't there always a chance of a leak? From one of the searchers or one of the police officers. That could throw doubt on the fact that the suspect could only know this if he were the killer. Were I a defense attorney that would be one possible avenue I'd go down. I don't think they can convict on this alone...

Imo they need:
- Fingerprints/DNA + discounting any alibis

Barring that..
- Strong video/audio evidence of the crime or confession to friend or family + something placing the person at the scene.

Or a boatload of circumstantial evidence

 

[Bluebellz]

I feel really positive and hopeful that this case will be solved in the near future. Whoever that *advertiser censored* is, justice will be served to him. I imagine these sort of killers think they are highly intelligent and powerful but in reality they are pathetic evil cowards. Apologies if this has been discussed already but do we know if LE plan to give another press conference any time soon?

 

[news buff]

you may wonder are false confessions that common? well I think from prisoners who might claim to know something or confess... to something to try to get attention , favors or deals. Or they brag about stuff they never did to other prisoners and stories spread around.

but do you think that many crazies off the streets just come in and confess?

we really need the FBI crimes unit heavily involved in this, because either there is a crazy boogie man running around killing little girls or this is some other kind of event in which case it might be even more shocking.

frankly the idea of this guy floating around the midwest scares the $$$$ out of me.

I also get this weird feeling about him, like he is a guy who will go into a home and murder a housewife in the middle of the day...definitely a peeper. he has to have neighbors..a community..an apartment, trailer or house...He's for sure a btk type..cool exterior, no empathy, shocking crime scene, arrogant and removed when discussing his 'projects".

I wish we could just tune into his frequency and locate him..

maybe someday we will learn there is a great agent who was working and sweating this
case..who was obsessed with finding BG and we will get to hear how he resolved these
disgusting depressing murders.

mOO

So you think that this child killer has moved on to housewives? What sparked your new theory?

 

[Peppery]

My biggest concern is that he might be like Israel Keyes and make most of his murders look like accidents. (There may be quite a few serial killers like that out there. How would we know?)

Definitely possible but from what we’ve heard it doesn’t sound like this particular crime could be passed off as accidental. If he’s a serial killer maybe some of his other crimes, maybe, but not this one. Moo

 

[Yemelyan]

Isn't there always a chance of a leak? From one of the searchers or one of the police officers. That could throw doubt on the fact that the suspect could only know this if he were the killer. Were I a defense attorney that would be one possible avenue I'd go down. I don't think they can convict on this alone...

Imo they need:
- Fingerprints/DNA + discounting any alibis

Barring that..
- Strong video/audio evidence of the crime or confession to friend or family + something placing the person at the scene.

Or a boatload of circumstantial evidence

Let's not forget that any DNA, fingerprints, and the video/audio that they have are also circumstantial evidence.

An eyewitness to the crime itself would be direct evidence but LE have already said they don't have this.

The totality of circumstantial evidence could be strong (if they had footprints, and weapons, and fingerprints, and DNA, and clothes left behind, and his vehicle on surveillance nearby, for example).

But arguably the best evidence would be a confession to police. That's the goal they work toward when they interrogate a POI. And revealing to the public certain details like cause of death, quantity and quality of DNA, pre or post-mortem behaviors, and sequence of the crime/interaction with the victim (aka, everything we would like to know) will severely limit their ability to interrogate effectively.

Remember that LE are allowed to say things to suspects like "can you explain why your DNA would be on the victim?" even if they don't know that statement to be strictly true. Then they can see how the suspect reacts to that supposed fact. A lot of guilty people (and a certain portion of totally innocent but a.) stressed out, b.) youthful, or c.) lower-imtelligence people) will begin inventing reasons that purport to explain that supposed fact. Investigators can then use other evidentiary information not revealed to the public to tease out whether the person indeed has knowledge of the crime that incriminates himself or if he is just guessing/saying what he thinks investigators want him to say. These are the "false confessions" LE are warning against, not insane people that wander in off the street to confess. IMO

 

[Peppery]

Isn't there always a chance of a leak? From one of the searchers or one of the police officers. That could throw doubt on the fact that the suspect could only know this if he were the killer. Were I a defense attorney that would be one possible avenue I'd go down. I don't think they can convict on this alone...

Imo they need:
- Fingerprints/DNA + discounting any alibis

Barring that..
- Strong video/audio evidence of the crime or confession to friend or family + something placing the person at the scene.

Or a boatload of circumstantial evidence

This is why I’ve worried about the “one tip away” idea. It’s hard to believe there’s no leaks in any case. Even if it’s unintentional. People talk. LE and other agencies meet, send emails, voicemails, memos, etc. all of those things can possibly end up in the hands of someone they aren’t intended for.

I hope, and absolutely believe, LE has much, much more evidence than we know about. The video and audio isn’t going to convict anyone. Imo

 

[everybodhi]

Hopefully familial DNA testing can solve this case soon.

Recently asked about familial DNA searches and the homicide investigation into German and Williams' death, Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said, “Obviously the answer hasn‘t come to the surface, yet.
Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity

https://amp.jconline.com/amp/638927002
Indiana doesn’t allow familial matching through Codis but it has been done through a Virginia company, Parabon, who ran the DNA through GedMatch.
There is no law against it.

Terre Haute Police Chief Shawn Keen announced Monday that DNA evidence and familial genealogy has revealed Jeffrey Lynn Hand as the likely killer of Pamela Milam. Milam, 19, was last seen alive the night of Sept. 15, 1972, following a sorority event on campus.
"This type of genetic genealogy can really help other cases," Keen said. "I feel that there's other jurisdictions that have these cases, I think there's other families that are waiting for answers, and I think that applying the science -- it's a shame if we don't try."
Dead killer identified through DNA as suspect in 1972 slaying of Indiana State coed

https://www.boston25news.com/news/t...-indiana-state-coed/948038406/?outputType=amp

 

[Yemelyan]

Hopefully familial DNA testing can solve this case soon.
Indiana doesn’t allow familial matching through Codis but it has been done through a Virginia company, Parabon, who ran the DNA through GedMatch.
There is no law against it.

I think they surely must be trying this, IF the sample of DNA they have is in any way amenable. TL did not want to answer specific questions about genetic genealogy in the Carroll County Comet Q&A a few weeks ago, so maybe that is a hopeful sign.

 

[everybodhi]

I think they surely must be trying this, IF the sample of DNA they have is in any way amenable. TL did not want to answer specific questions about genetic genealogy in the Carroll County Comet Q&A a few weeks ago, so maybe that is a hopeful sign.

I think so too, it can take awhile.
“..one tip away”

 

[Boxer]

Yes and no. If a 25-year-old is "cute", I doubt there would be any problems gaging his age, plus-minus. If he is not very attractive, little would they care, 25 or 65. It all depends on their interest.

Unless Libby, who took criminal justice classes, was different, since she was interested in behaviors. I suspect she could be good with ages, she lived in a multi-generational house, and probably, possessed an unusual amount of intuition.

What else could she have done if she felt uneasy? In 2017, Libby could have live-streamed BG on her FB. Not on SC, but on IG, too.

Why didn't she do it? If she was scared, if she was inconspicuously taking his video, why didn't she broadcast it?

I am always asking myself this question.

MOO.
No time.
IIRC The video imagery we see is restored out of a chaotic few seconds of moving video.

 

[Yemelyan]

I think so too, it can take awhile.
“..one tip away”

Yes! It can take awhile. I don't think enough people realize, because it seems that a lot of these cold cases are being solved quickly, just how long it can take to build out these family trees.

The concern for Delphi, of course, would be if the DNA sample that they have is quite incomplete it would make genetic genealogy a difficult course. Whenever a sample is low quality or if it were to be mixed with one of the girls' DNA, generating that initial male profile for genetic genealogists to work with might have been a difficult and time-consuming step.