Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[Charlot123]

Haven't to be debts. What, if someone was seen dealing with drugs (dealer and buyer), who doesn't want to be associated with drugs, because of his status or more important reasons. Questions remains: Why did he know, he was seen??

Now I get your question. If I understand correctly, what you want to ask is: imagine the killer went to the bridge to do something that was not appropriate for his status or could have consequences, be it sex, drugs or other rock-n-roll. (The MHB seems to have been quite a free market, so, why not?) The girls, random witnesses to that, make a photo, either because they know the person and are surprised, or he gets on their photo accidentally. He, either seeing it, or maybe being told by someone else, decides to eliminate the witnesses. So the question is, how did he see them taking photos?

It is not what I think happened, but nothing will surprise me about this case.

However, how about this plot: before that bridge, they do meet with someone, and walk part of the way on the trails with that someone. (No one has seen them walking on MHB). That someone, having seen them taking photos, tells to the killer, btw, you were photographed, don’t you know?

In other words, there is one more person who knows perfectly well why they were killed, and keeps silent out of fear. Initially, there was fear of being killed, now it is the fear of having kept silence for so long.

 

[Charlot123]

Haven't to be debts. What, if someone was seen dealing with drugs (dealer and buyer), who doesn't want to be associated with drugs, because of his status or more important reasons. Questions remains: Why did he know, he was seen??

Now I get your question. If I understand correctly, what you want to ask is: imagine the killer went to the bridge to do something that was not appropriate for his status or could have consequences, be it sex, drugs or other rock-n-roll. (The MHB seems to have been quite a free market, so, why not?) The girls, random witnesses to that, make a photo, either because they know the person and are surprised, or he gets on their photo accidentally. He, either seeing it, or maybe being told by someone else, decides to eliminate the witnesses. So the question is, how did he see them taking photos?

It is not what I think happened, but nothing will surprise me about this case.

However, how about this plot: before that bridge, they do meet with someone, and walk part of the way on the trails with that someone. (No one has seen them walking on MHB). That someone, having seen them taking photos, tells to the killer, btw, you were photographed, don’t you know?

In other words, there is one more person who knows perfectly well why they were killed, and keeps silent out of fear. Initially, there was fear of being killed, now it is the fear of having kept silence for so long.

TY for explaining this. It is definitely new to me and I had to update my knowledge. It is not as common as for MO to change tho, if the information I found about this is up to date?

I am not a specialist at all, but I assume that signatures testify to some rigidity of the SKs, so, yes, they have to be there. But no one said that new ones can not accrue.

They probably have their favorite MOs, too, but that might change depending on convenience and specific circumstances.

 

[AC4RD]

...before that bridge, they do meet with someone, and walk part of the way on the trails with that someone. (No one has seen them walking on MHB). ,,, .

Charlot, that is one of the questions I find myself thinking about: We (the general public) are not aware of anybody who reported seeing L&A on the trails that day. But it was reported that there were others. If that's true, it seems likely to me that *somebody* saw the girls, if only in passing. Knowing who (if anybody) saw them, where and when, would be interesting. I'm sure that if it did happen, LE has kept a lid on the information.

This brings me back to another favorite of my questions about Delphi: how in the world have public officials managed to keep information from being leaked, so well, for so long. IMO it must be a fairly significant reason so many people have followed the requests to keep silent. I'd love to know what that reason is.

 

[Georgia8]

Charlot, that is one of the questions I find myself thinking about: We (the general public) are not aware of anybody who reported seeing L&A on the trails that day. But it was reported that there were others. If that's true, it seems likely to me that *somebody* saw the girls, if only in passing. Knowing who (if anybody) saw them, where and when, would be interesting. I'm sure that if it did happen, LE has kept a lid on the information.

This brings me back to another favorite of my questions about Delphi: how in the world have public officials managed to keep information from being leaked, so well, for so long. IMO it must be a fairly significant reason so many people have followed the requests to keep silent. I'd love to know what that reason is.

Can someone who knows for sure explicate the snapchat vs. cellphone evidence (and also text)? Am late to the case other than in a general 'world news' way and don't have this straight and there are so many threads.

1. Who and how many saw the snapchat photos? What did they see? Are they certainly from that day?

2. I assume the video of BG is taken ON their phone correct? Was a photo taken and shared on SC? Were any texts concerning BG sent?

Sorry for these basic questions but not sure I have this right.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think the folks at Delphi probably aren’t interested in talking because they respect the girls’ family members who all along have been doing an outstanding job of telling the public as much as we need to know. Just to release information neither the family nor LE have released, why would they? That’s junior high school stuff, not everyone wants to become a SM sensation over any personal involvement or knowledge of a tragedy.

Surely they’d also be equally aware of how quickly it can turn on them, SM is not always kind and direct accusations of criminal involvement have been made toward virtually every male name or photo that’s publicly available.

And even if someone did decide to spill secrets, how would the public ever know they were being truthful or know their information had been vetted by LE as accurate and pertinent? Or is it that we’d just believe everything? JMO

 

[evilwise]

I think the folks at Delphi probably aren’t interested in talking because they respect the girls’ family members who all along have been doing an outstanding job of telling the public as much as we need to know. Just to release information neither the family nor LE have released, why would they? That’s junior high school stuff, not everyone wants to become a SM sensation over any personal involvement or knowledge of a tragedy.

Surely they’d also be equally aware of how quickly it can turn on them, SM is not always kind and direct accusations of criminal involvement have been made toward virtually every male name or photo that’s publicly available.

And even if someone did decide to spill secrets, how would the public ever know they were being truthful or know their information had been vetted by LE as accurate and pertinent? Or is it that we’d just believe everything? JMO

I could say that the culprits in this case were cattle mutilating space aliens and hundreds of people would believe me.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

This brings me back to another favorite of my questions about Delphi: how in the world have public officials managed to keep information from being leaked, so well, for so long. IMO it must be a fairly significant reason so many people have followed the requests to keep silent. I'd love to know what that reason is.

Snipped & bolden by me for focus.

This has been my number one question since I started following this case (about 1.5+ years ago). Seriously, HOOOOWWWWW!??!?

m()()

 

[Lavender Moon]

I like to believe that the reason that no info has been leaked is because people are wanting to do what they believe is the right thing.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

As far as the poll is concerned, here’s what I think…

The killer was there looking for a victim, so in that sense I guess it was planned.
The only victims the killer was able to isolate and trap were Libby and Abby, so I guess it was random. Wrong place, wrong time for Libby and Abby.
I do not believe the girls were targeted in the sense that someone for weeks had been planning to do them in for any reason.
If they were stalked it was only after they got to the trails and the killer saw them as potential victims.

I guess I am of the mind that Libby and Abby were victims of opportunity by a prowling killer. So count me as thinking random…any female at the trails that day was in danger and any of them could have been the victim.

 

[MistyWaters]

Can someone who knows for sure explicate the snapchat vs. cellphone evidence (and also text)? Am late to the case other than in a general 'world news' way and don't have this straight and there are so many threads.

1. Who and how many saw the snapchat photos? What did they see? Are they certainly from that day?

2. I assume the video of BG is taken ON their phone correct? Was a photo taken and shared on SC? Were any texts concerning BG sent?

Sorry for these basic questions but not sure I have this right.

Okay, I’ll give my response to your questions to the best of my knowledge.
The contents of Libby’s cellphone was analyzed by Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce.
1. A list of Libby’s snapchat friends has never been released, understandably that information would remain inside the investigation. But two SC photos she’d sent were captured by the media from FB, the one of Abby, the other just of the bridge. They can be found attached to numerous early media reports although never officially released by LE.
2. Yes, apparently the video was found on the phone. No one has ever said it was shared by SC, nor anything of other text msgs. IIRC LE did confirm that Libby had not called 911. As the girls were only presumed missing that first day and night - no foul play suspected - I think it can be safely assumed they didn’t send off any alarms or alerts to anyone any other way either.

Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce assisting in Delphi murders investigation

 

[Charlot123]

Charlot, that is one of the questions I find myself thinking about: We (the general public) are not aware of anybody who reported seeing L&A on the trails that day. But it was reported that there were others. If that's true, it seems likely to me that *somebody* saw the girls, if only in passing. Knowing who (if anybody) saw them, where and when, would be interesting. I'm sure that if it did happen, LE has kept a lid on the information.

This brings me back to another favorite of my questions about Delphi: how in the world have public officials managed to keep information from being leaked, so well, for so long. IMO it must be a fairly significant reason so many people have followed the requests to keep silent. I'd love to know what that reason is.

The question is not about Delphi. Delphi is understandable.

The question is about the rest of Indiana.

Not a single Hoosier I asked (and I don’t know many, granted, but the ones I know belong to different socio-economic classes) told me anything about the case that i would not already know. Moreover, no one was willing to discuss the case. The biggest remark I got was criticism of ISP, well, this is not new, either…

And this, psychologically, is very interesting. Humans are humans; in life, I tried to teach myself not to spread gossips, as they hurt people, and yet, once, I could not hold my tongue, so hilarious was the situation. So take the population of 3000 people…what, no one, making big eyes, told his relatives the details about the murders? No searcher? And the relatives are humans…how come the whole Indiana is silent?

Maybe, and perhaps, the early “leaked” texts illustrated how easily the information, and the names, and the screenshots, would hit the Internet? Maybe this, ironically, served as the deterrent? Because most Delphians have kids, and here, the kids were killed?

In my eyes, this is what keep people silent. Not fear for themselves- but for own kids. Any hint, any threat to the kids, will seal people’s lips forever.

Or, maybe RL case was the big warning?

 

[MistyWaters]

The question is not about Delphi. Delphi is understandable.

The question is about the rest of Indiana.

Not a single Hoosier I asked (and I don’t know many, granted, but the ones I know belong to different socio-economic classes) told me anything about the case that i would not already know. Moreover, no one was willing to discuss the case. The biggest remark I got was criticism of ISP, well, this is not new, either…

And this, psychologically, is very interesting. Humans are humans; in life, I tried to teach myself not to spread gossips, as they hurt people, and yet, once, I could not hold my tongue, so hilarious was the situation. So take the population of 3000 people…what, no one, making big eyes, told his relatives the details about the murders? No searcher? And the relatives are humans…how come the whole Indiana is silent?

Maybe, and perhaps, the early “leaked” texts illustrated how easily the information, and the names, and the screenshots, would hit the Internet? Maybe this, ironically, served as the deterrent? Because most Delphians have kids, and here, the kids were killed?

In my eyes, this is what keep people silent. Not fear for themselves- but for own kids. Any hint, any threat to the kids, will seal people’s lips forever.

Or, maybe RL case was the big warning?

Maybe the damage that false accusations can cause hits home to those who are closer to Delphi than most of us?

And really, on the topic of nobody talking - what is the expectation if someone were to “talk”???

I think the public is mainly interested in leaks that would help to lead to the identity of the killer, maybe because WE think WE are smarter than LE and if WE only had more information, WE’D know who dunnit??? But landing back on planets earth - if any one person is aware of such critical information, I’m certain LE wouldn’t need strangers playing guessing games to help them figure it out. WE the Court of Public Opinion carries no weight in a Court of Law.

Police warn of dangers of online sleuthing to solve Delphi murders | WTTV CBS4Indy

 

[minazoe]

obviously there are only a few people that have any new information and they have slammed the door shut and thats it..that means girlfriends, family members, bartenders..no one has any new skinny on the case. They aren't exercising self control..they don't have anything..believe me it's human nature..a cop tells a girlfriend , the girlfriend gets drunk and blabs something to her best friend and then the best friend tells her husband and BOOM it's everywhere..

There is no way the state of Indiana is keeping their collective mouths shut. mOO

 

[minazoe]

I was watching the love of my life Detective Joe Kenda..( sorry Mrs. Kenda...I'm sure she's used to it by now lolz..) anyway I was watching some episode and he said..As a homicide detective you don't tell anyone anything..period. end of story and even more so in a high profile case.

so I imagine no paperwork or reports have been filed that someone could read in the office ..nothing no interviews where people are seen meeting with detectives and recognized..no over heard conversations..lab test results and all other pertinent info under lock and key.

this case is a heavy burden for any cop..the only relief is to honor it like church..to do no wrong, to do no harm, to keep it so close like it's these children's very precious lives you are holding in your hands.

mOO

 

[MollyDDD]

Charlot, that is one of the questions I find myself thinking about: We (the general public) are not aware of anybody who reported seeing L&A on the trails that day. But it was reported that there were others. If that's true, it seems likely to me that *somebody* saw the girls, if only in passing. Knowing who (if anybody) saw them, where and when, would be interesting. I'm sure that if it did happen, LE has kept a lid on the information.

This brings me back to another favorite of my questions about Delphi: how in the world have public officials managed to keep information from being leaked, so well, for so long. IMO it must be a fairly significant reason so many people have followed the requests to keep silent. I'd love to know what that reason is.

I agree, people love to talk and rumors take on a life of their own. After all of these years, nobody but nobody slipped up? Ladies sitting in the hair salon? Saturday morning at the dry cleaners? In the parking lot after a school board meeting? Church? It’s just uncanny that nothing has leaked. IMO

 

[Yesiamapirate]

I agree, people love to talk and rumors take on a life of their own. After all of these years, nobody but nobody slipped up? Ladies sitting in the hair salon? Saturday morning at the dry cleaners? In the parking lot after a school board meeting? Church? It’s just uncanny that nothing has leaked. IMO

Great question …Maybe there is not much to leak? Maybe truly the only info there is is pretty much out there already? I often wonder if they have nothing and this is why the case is not solved. I follow a lot of cases here. In most, I feel the public only knows the tip of the iceberg, compared to what the authorities know. But in this case it is so little and right, no leaks. I don’t know. MOO

 

[BNA]

I think the folks at Delphi probably aren’t interested in talking because they respect the girls’ family members who all along have been doing an outstanding job of telling the public as much as we need to know. Just to release information neither the family nor LE have released, why would they? That’s junior high school stuff, not everyone wants to become a SM sensation over any personal involvement or knowledge of a tragedy.

Surely they’d also be equally aware of how quickly it can turn on them, SM is not always kind and direct accusations of criminal involvement have been made toward virtually every male name or photo that’s publicly available.

And even if someone did decide to spill secrets, how would the public ever know they were being truthful or know their information had been vetted by LE as accurate and pertinent? Or is it that we’d just believe everything? JMO

That just does not sound right to me.

It is human nature to talk....to gossip.

Somebody always talks.....even if they are talking baloney.

Somebody always talks to media. It is too hard NOT to do that.

If there IS a lid, it's a media lid. That's a whole different issue, and equally puzzling, imho.

I feel like there might be a generally agreed upon suspect, with generally agreed upon reasons that the suspect is a suspect, and generally agreed upon reasons to work together to not alert that suspect to any of it.

 

[FromGermany1]

obviously there are only a few people that have any new information and they have slammed the door shut and thats it..that means girlfriends, family members, bartenders..no one has any new skinny on the case. They aren't exercising self control..they don't have anything..believe me it's human nature..a cop tells a girlfriend , the girlfriend gets drunk and blabs something to her best friend and then the best friend tells her husband and BOOM it's everywhere..

There is no way the state of Indiana is keeping their collective mouths shut. mOO

bbm
Maybe, it is verrry important for the state of Indiana itself - and that wouldn't be, if for example JBC is the BG, who murdered 2 innocent girls on a sunny February-day in 2017, just before Valentins.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe the damage that false accusations can cause hits home to those who are closer to Delphi than most of us?

And really, on the topic of nobody talking - what is the expectation if someone were to “talk”???

I think the public is mainly interested in leaks that would help to lead to the identity of the killer, maybe because WE think WE are smarter than LE and if WE only had more information, WE’D know who dunnit??? But landing back on planets earth - if any one person is aware of such critical information, I’m certain LE wouldn’t need strangers playing guessing games to help them figure it out. WE the Court of Public Opinion carries no weight in a Court of Law.

Police warn of dangers of online sleuthing to solve Delphi murders | WTTV CBS4Indy

Well, personally, I am not as interested in leaks as hopeful for justice. Two girls were killed. In the course of these five years, justice has not been served, but too many people around the case have been disgraced, or identified as hypocrites.

Moreover - leaks that would help identify the killer are probably not possible, as any “real” person with leaks would be attracted by the potential reward. So no one would be asking about someone’s pois. Nor do I have mine.

But even: why? (the motive), or the simplest why the statements of LE, if put on the timeline, are contradictory and make so little sense? - could help.

Actually, I am 50/50 on “random attack vs targeted”. I think the silence indicates “fear”, and fear implies, “targeted”. But once in a blue moon, the situation might be more complicated, even, mixed.

 

[MistyWaters]

That just does not sound right to me.

It is human nature to talk....to gossip.

Somebody always talks.....even if they are talking baloney.

Somebody always talks to media. It is too hard NOT to do that.

If there IS a lid, it's a media lid. That's a whole different issue, and equally puzzling, imho.

I feel like there might be a generally agreed upon suspect, with generally agreed upon reasons that the suspect is a suspect, and generally agreed upon reasons to work together to not alert that suspect to any of it.

I don’t doubt there’s “talk” but no credible media source is going to publish “gossip”, thankfully. Why would unproven words hold any interest - talk is cheap. If there’s anything to be said that’s of such critical interest, charges would already have been laid by now.

Not many other cases does LE see the need to remind people of the damage speculation can cause. This case might be an unsolved mystery, much like a movie or novel to some since we have no direct involvement, but it’s a real life happening to others. What’s written on the internet stays forever.

Police warn of dangers of online sleuthing to solve Delphi murders | WTTV CBS4Indy
“Police monitor social media and want those tips, but they want them sent to the tip line. If someone is named and cleared behind the scenes, they can get on with their life. If that accusation is public, it could follow them forever.

“That person’s name is forever connected to the Delphi case even if they have nothing to do with it,” Perrine warned. “It could be years down the line when they’re applying for a job, and somebody does an internet search for their name and their connection to this case, their alleged connection to this case, comes up.”…”