Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #139

[Tiff23fr]

What I can’t quite wrap my head around is the addresses. Obviously this good-looking fake anthony_shots isn’t going to drive up in his porsche and pick up girls for a date. He admitted to LE that he got his rocks off by the videos and pics he collected from his victims, but we don’t know who he was sharing stuff with via dropbox.

The only reasons I can think for pedophiles to attempt to meet up with catfished victim is solely nefarious - such as intent to rape, or follow through with an abduction, confinement, prostitution, ie human trafficking. Under either scenario, if the girls fought back the motive of the perp to murder may well have been to simply silence them to avoid them becoming potential witnesses. Unfortunately for the victims, the secrecy that occurs in catfished situations ultimately works to their disadvantage.

Even IF anthony-shots is not related to future murder charges at all, I think the discussion of catfishing and dangers of falling into the trap of believing everything on the internet somebody says in general is very valuable.

JMO

I am 500% with you on this. Catfishing in and of itself and the dangers can not be minimized. I also concur that the intent to get addresses was not because this individual was going to pick victims up for a ride in his lambo. Though he may have used that as a line to get an address.

I was trying to wrap my head around why addresses, and the following thoughts came to mind. Maybe someone has additional thoughts:

-Peeping Tom or stalking behaviors. It seems many of the photos were tagged in surrounding areas in Indiana, so did he target victims within driving distance?
-Abduction as you stated above
-Threat. Once things shift in the communications the perp uses having the address as a threat. I.E. If you tell anyone, I know where you live. Threat of physical harm or a threat of, “Now, you wouldn’t want your parents to see your photo would you?”

The address situation tells me there was more to the behavior than just online conversation. There was an associated plan for action which could be one of the above behaviors. I feel the follow up communication the day after the initial ask regarding the profile interactions was critical. The victims have some comfort in knowing the individual suspected to be behind the profile is behind bars.

 

[TL4S]

What I can’t quite wrap my head around is the addresses. Obviously this good-looking fake anthony_shots isn’t going to drive up in his porsche and pick up girls for a date. He admitted to LE that he got his rocks off by the videos and pics he collected from his victims, but we don’t know who he was sharing stuff with via dropbox.

The only reasons I can think for pedophiles to attempt to meet up with catfished victim is solely nefarious - such as intent to rape, or follow through with an abduction, confinement, prostitution, ie human trafficking. Under either scenario, if the girls fought back the motive of the perp to murder may well have been to simply silence them to avoid them becoming potential witnesses. Unfortunately for the victims, the secrecy that occurs in catfished situations ultimately works to their disadvantage.

Even IF anthony-shots is not related to future murder charges at all, I think the discussion of catfishing and dangers of falling into the trap of believing everything on the internet somebody says in general is very valuable.

JMO

It's the quest for addresses that bothers me, too. I won't be surprised at all if we find out KAK was selling photos and addresses, so while getting off on them himself, he also made a profit.

 

[PoppyJune]

Forgive if this is an ignorant question, but might one presume (going by the names) that Delphi has a Greek'' flavour ''and Monticello, an Italian one? speculation, imo.

there’s no Greek or Italian flavor in either. These are not fancy places. You can search for homes for sale on any realty website and see what I’m talking about. My family has a lake home in Monticello. It is very nice and there are nice homes around there. However, overall it’s more of a rural area. Lots of country roads. Nothing fancy around here.

 

[IceIce9]

Forgive if this is an ignorant question, but might one presume (going by the names) that Delphi has a Greek'' flavour ''and Monticello, an Italian one? speculation, imo.

Monticello was named after Thomas Jefferson’s home. I don’t think there is anything Greek in Delphi except maybe Greek salad at the Pizza King.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Now, if your phone gets too full of photos and apps, you start getting messages that your iCloud is full, and you’ll have to buy more storage if you want your phone backed up properly.

I assume in that case that photos might be lost permanently?

MOO, based on my own observations

I wouldn’t necessarily call Monticello “posh.” I would say it is like Delphi on a lake.

Many or most of the lakefront homes are very small and quite old, like bungalows less than 1000 square feet. Many lakefront homes are mobile homes. Many homes are in a state of disrepair.

They aren’t the typical lakefront homes you would see around Lake Michigan, for example.

That description you provided of the houses, homes, etc. sounds exactly like the West Virginia border on the Potomac River in Morgan and Berkeley counties. The only exception is here in these two counties is that some people(The Riley Crossman case brought me to WS).

LE is not directly linking KAK to Delphi. Their ask regards the anthony_shots profile, but KAK’s direct connection to the profile is otherwise known because he’s already been charged with 30 catfishing/*advertiser censored* related counts. How LE might believe the fake profile might be involved in some way with the murders, we don’t know.

BBM

“Abby Williams and Libby German were found dead on Feb. 14, 2017. Indiana State Police and the FBI executed a search warrant in the Kline case on Feb. 25, 2017—more than a week later.

“If the time frame fits now, its certainly worth looking into,” said Whitehead. “Anyone that had contact with this person at any point in time could possibly still have information on their computer that would be helpful to the investigation. He may have shared inadvertently or intentionally revealed some personal information that could be valuable. There might be embedded information in the communications that would be helpful to the investigators also.”

“Anyone who may have been contacted, met with or knows something about the ‘anthony_shots’ profile is asked to contact law enforcement,” Indiana State Police said in a statement released Monday night. ….”
Delphi murders: Anthony Shots profile tied to Abby & Libby deaths

Very well said, IMHAspieO.

 

[dotr]

Monticello was named after Thomas Jefferson’s home. I don’t think there is anything Greek in Delphi except maybe Greek salad at the Pizza King.

Lol, thank you for the response- back to the drawing board!
Okay, the sketch of the suspect vaguely reminded me of what i think of as a'' Greek golden boy'' type, complete speculation, fwiw for now.


ABC News - Walt Disney

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

What I can’t quite wrap my head around is the addresses. Obviously this good-looking fake anthony_shots isn’t going to drive up in his porsche and pick up girls for a date. He admitted to LE that he got his rocks off by the videos and pics he collected from his victims, but we don’t know who he was sharing stuff with via dropbox.

The only reasons I can think for pedophiles to attempt to meet up with catfished victim is solely nefarious - such as intent to rape, or follow through with an abduction, confinement, prostitution, ie human trafficking. Under either scenario, if the girls fought back the motive of the perp to murder may well have been to simply silence them to avoid them becoming potential witnesses. Unfortunately for the victims, the secrecy that occurs in catfished situations ultimately works to their disadvantage.

Even IF anthony-shots is not related to future murder charges at all, I think the discussion of catfishing and dangers of falling into the trap of believing everything on the internet somebody says in general is very valuable.

JMO

BBM This. All of this.
I want to talk about the paedophiles attempting to meet up with catfished victims here because it is actually a lot more common than you would think. I'm in my late 20's and have seen this happen to people I know more than five times, mostly on FB and Instagram, but sometimes on other platforms like Tinder and Grindr where the victim was clearly too young to be online but used anyway.
A lot of the time, these predators cannot and will not make it clear to their victims who they are, even when they meet up or attempt to. Usually there are "tells" that all is not as it seems but it is really hard for someone 13, 14 years old to figure these out because they often are not adept with reverse image searching, etc.
For example I know a girl who was lured in on Instagram by this guy who purportedly was a Junior A hockey player. He had followers, posted lots of content and even had an active Twitter anon account which was how she found him. Turns out the pics he posted on Instagram were someone else's from three years back and the team he was supposedly on that he was very hush hush about folded the previous year and wasn't playing games. He didn't have his last name listed, so it was hard for anyone to look him up on Eliteprospects. The only reason he was ever found out was because someone called out his Twitter account for being bogus and then a bunch of girls responded saying they'd sent him pics etc. Turns out he was a 34 year old man in Australia and not a 17 year old Canadian hockey player, and he probably would not have been caught had the Twitter user not done an IP search that placed him in Australia.

 

[Sillybilly]

'

Oh wow! I vaguely remember hearing about this!

How coincidental that this story involves Alaska and Indiana! Could it be part of some larger things, some larger group doing this?

I'm certainly considering there could be a connection to Schilmiller (of New Salisbury, Indiana). Cynthia Hoffman was murdered 2 years after Abby and Libby, and her murder was based on Schilmiller projecting himself as a multi millionnaire willing to pay $9M to have somebody murdered and the killing recorded. As the anthony_shots site predates Cynthia's 2019 killing, we would be left with the question of did Kline possibly influence Schilmiller or did Schilmiller’s site exist in 2017 and Kline was somehow associated with it or influenced by it.

Jumping off this post to say, the grey hoodie / dollar bill theme in anthony_shots is not unique to Kline (so I'm not convinced that is Kline in the grey hoodie). Variations of it float around the web. Here are some used by the media in relation to the Schilmiller case.

 

[JnRyan]

Since Feb 13 2017, I dismissed any suggestion that the girls were catfished or their trip to the trails were anything but a last minute idea.
I retained that opinion even when that theory was the rage on WS.
I firmly dismissed any catfishing suggestions when LE said they had found no internet link to the murders
And on Dec 6 2021 at 9:32pm I dismissed my opinion that the girls were not catfished or the internet was not in play in their murders. I was wrong, and apparently LE was too until something recently came to their attention.
I was quite pleased with my thoughts on the case up until this week’s police bulletin, but I’m not going to ignore this new information just to preserve it.

I'm right there, too. I had this as a random, opportunistic crime. The killer was hunting and the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now the possibility appears that they might have been targeted and set up. I don't believe KAK committed this murder and may have not known the murderer or made the connection. I certainly hope he isn't holding anything back, though.

On another note, I can't believe the velocity at which this thread is moving. If LE makes the final connection - assuming there is one - in January we could be on thread #150 at the rate these last two threads have been moving this week.

 

[MizStery]

I remembered that in an old thread I had read a post that had some critical info just prior and immediately after the Feb 13,2017 date.

I then did a copy paste of a post by Yemelyam. Included are a link to her July 2020 post in thread #124
.
In it are details like Libby had been pestering Kelsey to take her to the bridge. Also that LE investigated social media from the beginning. Anna Williams described how police collected all electronic devices on the night of the 13th and started going through them looking for evidence of a meetup. Finally Libby's aunt Tara helped her with the physical re-set of her phone. So this was not a wiping of the phone done in secret, it was perhaps suggested by and definitely assisted by adults in Libby's life.

Yemelyam

Thread 124 Post 530

From the Scene of the Crime and Down the Hill podcasts in the media thread, we hear in the families' words the following:
Libby and Kelsi frequented the trails and had previously crossed the bridge together. Libby had been pestering Kelsi to take her back to the trails in the days previous to this.
The families assert the decision to go on the 13th was spur of the moment. Had Kelsi refused to take them, there would not really have been any way for them to get to the trails that day other than walking (not sure permission would have been granted without a ride there and back).
In Scene of the Crime Podcast, Anna Williams described how police collected all electronic devices on the night of the 13th and started going through them looking for evidence of a meetup. She said "Becky was more on top of it than me, she already had passwords to all of Libby's accounts." MP recounts going back to the house and collecting iPods, laptops, phones. Abby had only a Kindle which she had received at Christmas a few weeks before.
Also in Scene of the Crime Podcast, BP says that Libby's aunt Tara helped her with the physical re-set of her phone. So this was not a wiping of the phone done in secret, it was perhaps suggested by and definitely assisted by adults in Libby's life.



Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

 

[Charlot123]

Lol, thank you for the response- back to the drawing board!
Okay, the sketch of the suspect vaguely reminded me of what i think of as a'' Greek golden boy'' type, complete speculation, fwiw for now.


ABC News - Walt Disney

I always thought it was germane to the average Indiana population. The only thing I noticed was some strabismus visible on the picture. Interestingly, on the sketch sent to the journalist (Phillips?), BG has the mask, but the face under the mask looks somewhat asymmetrical. Is it a mere coincidence, or does the person, indeed, have a mild facial asymmetry?

 

[MassGuy]

Someone else might have already said this, I’m catching up on the thread, but Cellebrite software, which is able to recover data from factory reset phones, was made available to local LE in 2020. This is when KAK was arrested and had the additional charge of obstructing justice added - which I guess was related to his lies about, and deletions from, his iPhone 5c.

Yup. The issue is that recovering deleted material is hit or miss. So I'm sure they were able to obtain some data, but likely not everything.

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

Yup. The issue is that recovering deleted material is hit or miss. So I'm sure they were able to obtain some data, but likely not everything.

There are some platforms, i.e. Discord, where data is truly purged when a server is deleted. It really depends on what platforms were being used and what their data privacy and deletion standards are, especially when it comes to LE getting archived or deleted material.

 

[MassGuy]

There are some platforms, i.e. Discord, where data is truly purged when a server is deleted. It really depends on what platforms were being used and what their data privacy and deletion standards are, especially when it comes to LE getting archived or deleted material.

I guess we have to hope that external data was collected during the initial investigation into his sex crimes, and therefore still accessible to investigators looking at the Delphi connection.

I would think that they also seized devices after he was finally charged, and they may have recovered more.

If he is involved in Delphi, I can't imagine he wasn't following it closely.

 

[joe jones]

The criminal affidavit is very confusing to me, nowhere in it does it say he was ever placed under arrest in 2017, they mirandized him at his house (also his father) and he willing spoke to them. The case number redacted must be the delphi murders where they say they spoke to him about a case. He admits creating the profile, admits to all the CSAM on his devices, he goes with LE to police station has a polygraph, speaks and admits more, he is then returned to his home. I do not know if he was under any conditions when returned. (not sure conditions can be placed on a person who appears to have not been arrested or charged) and until 2020 he was free to do as he pleased from what I can make out.

 

[Jade]

Lol, thank you for the response- back to the drawing board!
Okay, the sketch of the suspect vaguely reminded me of what i think of as a'' Greek golden boy'' type, complete speculation, fwiw for now.


ABC News - Walt Disney

Yes, now that you mention it.

And favors the catfish model but not as handsome.



All imo

 

[TL4S]

From the affidavit:

"He advised he saved their pictures to his gallery. During his interview, [KAK] stated he was *advertiser censored**ed and he should’ve left. [KAK] advised he packed another bag and took it to Las Vegas. and [KAK] returned from Las Vegas on February 25, 2017. He stated he was going tO leave When his dad was asleep."

Just what does this mean? So he had been in Vegas, and only on the 25th knew he was in trouble with the law, saying he was *advertiser censored**ed, yet he packed another bag and brought it to Vegas and was going to go back when his dad was asleep? Or was he planning to leave from Vegas when his dad was asleep, but didn't?

Either way, that makes it sound like he knew he was *advertiser censored**ed even before he went to Vegas. Do we have a date when they left?

 

[Charlot123]

Like a lot of y’all I think KAK’s deleting of information on his iPhone is a big part of this whole thing. I think there was information linking him to Libby and Abby and KAK took advantage of that lapse by LE to delete info linking him to the murders.
Why else would he need to do that? He had just confessed to child *advertiser censored* activities. He had just turned over multiple devices with evidence proving he was guilty. If his iPhone only contained more of that kinda stuff why would he care if LE saw it?
I’m a bit shocked that LE after the info they found out about at his house and from him that day just took his word that the iPhone wasn’t available, dropped him off back home and waved goodbye. Seems to me he should have been locked up and LE should have retrieved that phone.

It seems highly likely that KK needed the iPhone to wipe off something.

What is interesting- if he returned iPhone later, wiped off, i.e., lied or dissed LE, how come they took it so easily? I mean, the guy is a criminal and a liar.

 

[joe jones]

I guess we have to hope that external data was collected during the initial investigation into his sex crimes, and therefore still accessible to investigators looking at the Delphi connection.

I would think that they also seized devices after he was finally charged, and they may have recovered more.

If he is involved in Delphi, I can't imagine he wasn't following it closely.

they seized all the devices relating to his 2020 charges in 2017, he voluntarily handed one over after deleting data and deleting some of the apps he used to solicit girls

 

[dotr]

I always thought it was germane to the average Indiana population. The only thing I noticed was some strabismus visible on the picture. Interestingly, on the sketch sent to the journalist (Phillips?), BG has the mask, but the face under the mask looks somewhat asymmetrical. Is it a mere coincidence, or does the person, indeed, have a mild facial asymmetry?

Yes, the eyes have that look, imo.