Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[JnRyan]

The technology existed before 2017. The FBI used Cellebrite to extract deleted data from the iPhones of Tammy and Sidney Moorer in 2015. They recovered the deleted data less than 3 months after Heather Elvis went missing.

I had forgotten about that and it is part of what led to a conviction in a no-body case.

 

[Yemelyan]

This is what the affidavit revealed —

2/25/2017
ISP, Peru PD, and FBI executed search warrant

KAK was interviewed by ISP & FBI

KAK admitted that he created the a_shots profile and used it to communicate with an unknown number of underage girls

KAK was polygraphed and said he received approximately 100 sexual photographs and 20 masturbation videos from girls between the ages of 15 and 17

Apple iPod Touch, iPhone 3, iPhone 4, Samsung Galaxy S5, Samsung Galaxy S4, and Nextbook tablet were seized during search

2/27/2017
KAK contacted the ISP Cyber Crimes unit and said he had located his iPhone 5C

3/2/2017
ISP Cyber Crimes unit obtained iPhone 5C from ISP Peru

4/24/2020
A new lead ISP investigator was assigned to the case

6/12/2020
The new investigator received the digital forensic examination report from ISP Sergeant Chris Cecil and reviewed it

6/18/2020
Multiple law enforcement agents met with Miami County prosecutor

Respectfully snipped and bolded because I wanted to give a little more info about the ISP Cyber Crimes Unit and the ISP sergeant listed in the affidavit - he's not just a regular deputy or detective, Chris Cecil is the head of the Indiana Internet Cyber Crimes Against Children Task Force and he's currently the assistant commander of the entire Cybercrime and Investigative Technologies Division for the ISP (promoted in July 2020). In 2016 he was a 12 year veteran of the ISP working in special investigations/sexual crimes/cyber crimes. Since September 2017 he has also been working as a task force officer with the FBI with a specialization in child exploitation. So this post is just to note that ISP had their top person working on this.

Some articles about him:
State Police Sergeant and Hamilton County Resident Promoted to First Sergeant
State police see spike in child sex crime cases as more Hoosiers report suspected predators | WTTV CBS4Indy
ISP Sex Crime Detective Featured on “Be A Kids Hero” Blog

And his linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-cecil-6712541a3

 

[Skigirl]

KAK/TK are the only POIs that have actual links to one of the girls, meaning Libby.

Per KAK Libby planned to meet with "A_S," he said "she never showed up."

MOO that planned meeting would have been an ambush to rape her, since there is no "A_S" and it would be KAK appearing instead.

IMO Libby did go to meet "A_S," and KAK/TK came instead planning to rape her. And then there were two girls, but the plan went forward any way.

We know TK is an extemely out of control, violent abuser and KAK, though has outbursts less frequently has an overkill rage response to certain things (per his brother.)

I think by the time a meeting was planned, a murder was also planned. I doubt he intended to leave Libby out there alive to identify him, even if she hadn't screwed up his plan by bringing along a friend.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That is a strange statement. "We do not belive that any person has done anything intentionally wrong,"

MOO translates to mean that this lead was allowed to languish.

My thoughts as well. It goes into more explanation at the link. Basically, they dropped the ball IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The technology existed before 2017. The FBI used Cellebrite to extract deleted data from the iPhones of Tammy and Sidney Moorer in 2015. They recovered the deleted data less than 3 months after Heather Elvis went missing.

If KK did a factory reset and didn't have Icloud storage not all of his texts could be recovered IIRC?

Do we know if Libby do a factory reset as well? It seems like I saw it discussed here recently.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think by the time a meeting was planned, a murder was also planned. I doubt he intended to leave Libby out there alive to identify him, even if she hadn't screwed up his plan by bringing along a friend.

My gut instinct says KK and TK may have set this up together. One waiting "Down the hill" as 'Anthony Shot' and one on the bridge. If you listen closely to the audio clip of BG's voice, it says "Guys....then there is a brief pause or noise, down the hill",

Do you think LE could have erased a portion of that audio before they released it? Maybe it could have said "Guys, Anthony's waiting down the hill"??

Just MOO

 

[stattlich1]

"Guys"

 

[girlhasnoname]

"Guys"

Yes, thanks for catching that, I fixed it.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

The technology existed before 2017. The FBI used Cellebrite to extract deleted data from the iPhones of Tammy and Sidney Moorer in 2015. They recovered the deleted data less than 3 months after Heather Elvis went missing.

Regarding the amount of time between the Peru search warrant after the murders, to the KAK arrest, and then asking for info from the public on Ashots - I first thought LE/FBI strategy, then I thought it was just the length of time and the effort needed to put a case together, and now I’m at “they dropped the ball”. I don’t know - I still feel like the FBI wouldn’t let the ball drop for 3+ years on something so serious, right???

 

[Yemelyan]

My gut instinct says KK and TK may have set this up together. One waiting "Down the hill" as 'Anthony Shot' and one on the bridge. If you listen closely to the audio clip of BG's voice, it says "Guys....then there is a brief pause or noise, down the hill",

Do you think LE could have erased a portion of that audio before they released it? Maybe it could have said "Guys, Anthony's waiting down the hill"??

Just MOO

Only one problem with this idea....Abby's mom says that the full "guys...down the hill" portion of the audio has been played for the families and there are no intervening words by the suspect in between "guys" and "down the hill". She said in an interview (Jason Hebert on Youtube, linked here on the Delphi threads many times as an approved source for this interview) that there are only seconds of pause between "guys" and "down the hill" and that one or both of the girls make an utterance in between his words that was a "hmm" or a "huh." So, this does not seem to indicate that the man's words were somehow edited out to conceal them from the family or from the public. The purpose of the family listening to this sequence, she says in the interview, was that LE wanted to know if the families recognized the voice and/or if they thought by the girls' reaction or words that the girls had any idea who the person was. I think if he had said "Anthony" or any kind of name LE would have brought that to the families to ask who was Anthony or if there was any chance the girls knew an Anthony. She says LE did remove the girls' voices from the clip for the public because they wanted the public to focus on the man's voice only, not that of the girls.

 

[cujenn81]

If KK did a factory reset and didn't have Icloud storage not all of his texts could be recovered IIRC?

Do we know if Libby do a factory reset as well? It seems like I saw it discussed here recently.

It doesn’t matter. Data isn’t physically wiped from storage when a phone is reset. The pathways are erased, but the data is just marked as “free space” until it’s overwritten by other data. It can still be recovered by LE.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Only one problem with this idea....Abby's mom says that the full "guys...down the hill" portion of the audio has been played for the families and there are no intervening words by the suspect in between "guys" and "down the hill". She said in an interview (Jason Hebert on Youtube, linked here on the Delphi threads many times as an approved source for this interview) that there are only seconds of pause between "guys" and "down the hill" and that one or both of the girls make an utterance in between his words that was a "hmm" or a "huh." So, this does not seem to indicate that the man's words were somehow edited out to conceal them from the family or from the public. The purpose of the family listening to this sequence, she says in the interview, was that LE wanted to know if the families recognized the voice and/or if they thought by the girls' reaction or words that the girls had any idea who the person was. I think if he had said "Anthony" or any kind of name LE would have brought that to the families to ask who was Anthony or if there was any chance the girls knew an Anthony. She says LE did remove the girls' voices from the clip for the public because they wanted the public to focus on the man's voice only, not that of the girls.

Interesting thoughts, I just wondered if they might want to edit out a name until they could identify the person.

 

[Yemelyan]

Interesting thoughts, I just wondered if they might want to edit out a name until they could identify the person.

I could maybe see LE doing this for the public clip that was released but the whole point of having the families listen was to figure out if the girls knew him. So I don't see the point of editing out any name or information for them. It would be very difficult, imo, on top of going against the purpose of the families listening, to somehow edit out words the man said while leaving in what the girls said in those intervening seconds. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting thoughts, I just wondered if they might want to edit out a name until they could identify the person.

LE was aware of the anthony_shots potential connection by late Feb/17 when the Peru search warrant was granted. If the name Anthony was also spoken on Libby’s recording it’s hard to accept they’d wait almost five years before suggesting the possible connection to the public for the purpose of seeking tips.

 

[MistyWaters]

This was what BP said about Libby resetting her iphone. Somewhere else is mentioned her aunt Tara helped her. I’m not sure what she means by factory resetting her cellphone but not resetting all the apps as well. Regardless it appears to have been the week before which means to me evidence of meeting someone at the bridge must’ve not been found or I’d expect this case would’ve been solved long ago.

“……Now I, I don’t remember a lot of the walking because at that point in time I called AT&T. Um, because Libby had recently reset her phone, the week before because it kept glitching, it kept freezing up on her so she reset the phone to a factory reset but when she did that she didn’t reset some of the different apps. So I called At&T to ask them if they could ping or trace her phone……”
https://www.actus-reus.com/delphi-timeline

 

[flashy09]

My gut instinct says KK and TK may have set this up together. One waiting "Down the hill" as 'Anthony Shot' and one on the bridge. If you listen closely to the audio clip of BG's voice, it says "Guys....then there is a brief pause or noise, down the hill",

Do you think LE could have erased a portion of that audio before they released it? Maybe it could have said "Guys, Anthony's waiting down the hill"??

Just MOO

I think this is a possibility as well. Not the name being said, but that the girls were driven down the hill to someone else waiting. That would explain how each girl was controlled from screaming or running. I also think KAK could be protecting the other person using his account because if KAK gives him up, the other person will certainly give up KAK if they both had a role in the murders. If I recall, didn't LE use "person or persons" a few times lately in their wording?

 

[HistoryNut]

I think this is a possibility as well. Not the name being said, but that the girls were driven down the hill to someone else waiting. That would explain how each girl was controlled from screaming or running. I also think KAK could be protecting the other person using his account because if KAK gives him up, the other person will certainly give up KAK if they both had a role in the murders. If I recall, didn't LE use "person or persons" a few times lately in their wording?

I have always suspected there were two killers, but ISP recently stated they think it is just one.

 

[Boxer]

My gut instinct says KK and TK may have set this up together. One waiting "Down the hill" as 'Anthony Shot' and one on the bridge. If you listen closely to the audio clip of BG's voice, it says "Guys....then there is a brief pause or noise, down the hill",

Do you think LE could have erased a portion of that audio before they released it? Maybe it could have said "Guys, Anthony's waiting down the hill"??

Just MOO

If they had that Anthony name on the bridge and raided KAK on 2/25, and then knowing of the Anthony profile, could the police possibly have dropped the ball so badly as to not follow up till 2020?
MOO I don't think they could have, the link seems too direct.

 

[Always Stay Hopeful]

There was audio or video of the girls talking while they were on the trail because it's been said that they were talking about things teenage girls talk about, or something along those lines. I'm so curious what they said. If they were planning to meet someone, they may have been talking about it or at least mentioned something in relation to it. I wonder if they did, if LE would have shared that. I wonder, also, if someone was upset about Libby not showing up to a planned meeting, whether he would have gone somewhere he knew she was at. Like the bridge after she posted the Snapchat. For that to work though, he would have had to have been fairly close.

 

[Schatz]

Thank you for that. You make great points. But what about all the actual factors involving him? I don’t think him being a sexual predator explains it all:

1. He is connected to a catfish account that was in contact with Libby prior to and the day of the murders.
2. Someone connected to the account was possibly supposed to meet Libby on the bridge the day of the murders.
2. He deleted information from his phone after a police interview.
3. He moved after failing a polygraph.
4. He tried to contact Libby after she was dead, knowing she was dead.
5. He had no alibi.
6. His dad pretending he was gone on the day of the murders.

What explains all that if he is not involved- at least via a connection to his dad?

My take on #4 is that it was AS but not necessarily KAK.

“-at least via a connection to his dad.”

It certainly seemed in the interview that the detective was more interested in TK than KAK for Delphi and he seems like a better fit to me. It also sounds like KAK’s phone was not at the bridge during the crime (the phone was at his dealers, near his grandparents’ house). Doesn’t mean he wasn’t but…

I do think KAK knows a lot more than he’s telling LE and likely protecting someone.

This was my read, too. And KAK seemed dumbfounded that his dad went a long stretch of not talking to him since he’s been in. I wonder if he feels dumbfounded that his dad seems to be protecting someone else over him, KAK.