Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[taylorss]

They would need pretty compelling circumstantial evidence at the least to get a DNA warrant.

They can get DNA without a warrant from EG his household trash, once he’s put the can to the curb.

IIRC that’s how the clinching DNA sample was obtained in GSK case.

 

[flashy09]

He said he wanted people to watch BG walking to see if they recognize any mannerisms. During the press conference he said,
"Carter says because of where the man is walking and the deterioration of the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally because of the spacing between the ties."

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

I think everything was so thought out for the PC that Carter is basically saying - he does not walk abnormally in real life. Look for other things.

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if all the local teachers were working in the school that day.

I’m trying to recall what the answer to this is, if they had the day off as well, or rather they had “in service”. Anyone?

 

[flashy09]

They can get DNA without a warrant from EG his household trash, once he’s put the can to the curb.

IIRC that’s how the clinching DNA sample was obtained in GSK case.

Oh wow I didn't know that! Well now I completely believe the PC was just to him and trying to get him to confess. I bet they have his DNA and he is under surveillance. They want to build a strong of a case as possible so looking for more solid leads with the new sketch while they wait on him.

 

[TexLil]

Saturday afternoon thoughts:

> I really enjoy reading everyone's posts here. The collective insight is extremely valuable and impressive.

> I keep thinking something triggered the change from the first sketch to the second. That change seems to have also led LE to release the "guys" audio and the walking video. Also the abandoned vehicle reference.

> I can't figure out if these are all related in some way or whether LE decided to just share several more things in hopes the new information would trigger someone's memory?

> But more than anything I think there's something bigger at play here. Could LE actually think sketch two is NOT the perp but they are hoping BG will somehow lower his guard thinking everyone thinks he's in the clear? While the community is looking for the younger man maybe BG will come out of hiding or make a mistake?

> I am really vacillating between the idea that LE really has no idea who the perp is and that they know or are really close to knowing. Of course I hope it's the latter but that last press conference makes me think they were throwing everything out just hoping the right tip will come in. And if that's the case I wish so badly all of this information would have been released two years ago.

MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

But don't they have compelling evidence to put out his sketch? That is what gets me. At least going off my theory that they know who he is

You would think.

 

[SeattleStew]

I would assume one planning on murder doesn't dress in their sunday best. I am not employed in a blue collar position orWell, a tradesman. I do still wear jeans with holes in them on relaxing weekends.

Well, it wasn't on a weekend, and I wasn't making a judgment call about BG or his comfort. I am analyzing what I can see with my eyeballs and attempting to extrapolate information from that. Also, I have ripped jeans, too. Mine don't look anything like just two holes below the knee area.

 

[allboys]

A walker or a brace... I think, a brace, but this contraption is the answer to “a baton”, or “a gun “, or even my “exhibitionist”. Neither. Just an attachment to help lift the weaker right leg. Of white color, I presume. He is an invalid.

But here is an issue, if you watch the video I posted, the gait is called “neuropathic”.

It must be some kind of neuropathy he has as it is on both sides.

So think of this...if the leg nerves are affected, what about the area directly above the legs?

I was thinking there was something wrong with sexual part of his life, and I posted in previous thread two things, possible exhibitionism? And my the feeling that the person was not healthy.

Now I think that this guy, because of quite possible neuropathy-related sexual problems, might be drawn to younger girls who are less experienced, less critical, and less secure.

You can tell a lot from the gait... why didn’t the police post this video sooner???

But given that the BG navigated the bridge so well, he must be a local, familiar with the bridge, definitely with the family known in the area (I got it from the phrase at the conference “think of how much pain you’ll bring to the ones loving you”, or something like it - they know the ones loving him!) -

why.the.heck.were.the.LE.chasing.some.unknown.pedophile??? Did that guy, who was recently arrested, and cleared of Delphi murders, suspect number One, have neuropathic gait?

I can’t tell the prevalence of it, but “gait abnormalities” are met in 10% of people above 60, and far less frequently in younger people. Even if they thought he was 40, still, an uncommon trait.

I don’t feel that I can comment on the gait because of only viewing a few steps, unlevel surface etc., but one thing that really stuck out to me in watching GH’s stabilized video is that it really seems that BG is carrying a duffle bag/backpack over at least his left shoulder. With GH’s work on the video, I caught a small reflection on what I think is a duffle/backpack. Maybe a zipper or label on the bag.

Once I got a sense of where I think the bag shows, I started covering that portion with my finger. It’s amazing how much bulk it removes from his upper body, making him appear much thinner.

I also question if some of that bag/pack is visible behind him, making it appear as a pulled down hood, but might be the top of his pack.

IMO, after watching GH’s stabilized video, he clearly has a pack of some sort, and it’s not a small one. I’m curious if the witness who saw him, remembered the pack.

Also, since I see more of the bag on his left side (or from our view, his right side), I wonder if the uneven distribution of the weight of his pack could also affect the way he’s walking. Regardless, due to the walking surface alone, I don’t think BG’s gait can be analyzed in any definitive way. Unfortunately.

Sorry if this “bag” chatter is old news. I’m pretty new to the thread.

 

[MJPeony]

I think everything was so thought out for the PC that Carter is basically saying - he does not walk abnormally in real life. Look for other things.

ITA. And I feel like they must have some reasoning behind that- something that THEY notice- otherwise its hard for me to believe LE really thinks the general public might help them see something significant in that minuscule video clip.

Personally I think it’s hands in pockets. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Reminds me, I read a post here a day or two ago, the poster said something like the suspect “photobombed Abby”. Wish I’d asked this then but at the moment I’d run out of time,.. but does anyone recall that and / or know what was meant by that ? TIA

I believe the post you reference was by me.

I don't think the image of BG we have from Libby's phone was Libby intentionally taking that picture. The quality itself tells us it was background, when filming her friend and/or the bridge area -- i.e., BG photo bombed Abby.

Reportedly, Libby and her sister were both very skilled photographers, and the family has many photos from the bridge taken before this tragedy.

MOO

 

[gitana1]

I agree with all of this!

What I don't understand is why the police can't go and get a DNA sample from the suspect - because I still think they know exactly who he is. What do you need against a person to get DNA? Surely they have quite a bit of evidence to put his sketch out there so isn't that enough to bring him in for questioning, samples etc?

Per the United States Constitution, Fourth Amendment rights against governmental search and seizure, there has to be a warrant tocollect a suspect's DNA based on probable cause that the person committed a certain crime.

Probable cause would not include that someone merely resembles (to some people) a sketch and it would not include he's religious and some people think everyone who is religious is a criminal. If you know what I mean!

 

[flashy09]

Per the United States Constitution, Fourth Amendment rights against governmental search and seizure, there has to be a warrant tocollect a suspect's DNA based on probable cause that the person committed a certain crime.

Probable cause would not include that someone merely resembles (to some people) a sketch and it would not include he's religious and some people think everyone who is religious is a criminal. If you know what I mean!

So what I am saying is that i think LE *knows* who it is. I am not saying to go get DNA from a random FB picture or anything.

 

[crhedBngr]

I’m trying to recall what the answer to this is, if they had the day off as well, or rather they had “in service”. Anyone?

I believe they had an unused snow day. I'll try and find the link.

Bringing this post forward: Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

Per the above link:

The school has a sign in front that said “NO SCHOOL FEBRUARY 13” several days ahead of time. In Indiana they build snow days into the school schedule and if they aren’t used the kids get extra days off school.

 

[margarita25]

Ok here’s a random really crazy thought that has entered my mind several times now, but since I don’t think it’s the case I never posted it lol, but since I keep wondering about it might as well, don’t throw tomatoes at me.

What if they are purposefully making the “primary” sketch so as to appeeeear that it is not as detailed as the “secondary” sketch or as detailed as a parabon computerized rendering in order to not reveal their hand that they do in fact have DNA.

Nevermind this doesn’t make sense, I don’t know what I was thinking now.
Ow my head.

Basically I think I was wondering if this sketch was “made” to look as it is from a witness but that’s not really the source.

(But then why would they do that? If they had a parabon image I think they would use it.)

 

[margarita25]

I believe they had an unused snow day. I'll try and find the link.

I know the students did, I was wondering about the teachers. Thanks for grabbing the link, crhedBngr.

 

[drama_farmer]

It's getting to the point where I can no longer tell when someone is being serious or sarcastic about items hidden in BG's clothing.

I'm long past that point.

 

[SeattleStew]

I don’t feel that I can comment on the gait because of only viewing a few steps, unlevel surface etc., but one thing that really stuck out to me in watching GH’s stabilized video is that it really seems that BG is carrying a duffle bag/backpack over at least his left shoulder. With GH’s work on the video, I caught a small reflection on what I think is a duffle/backpack. Maybe a zipper or label on the bag.

Once I got a sense of where I think the bag shows, I started covering that portion with my finger. It’s amazing how much bulk it removes from his upper body, making him appear much thinner.

I also question if some of that bag/pack is visible behind him, making it appear as a pulled down hood, but might be the top of his pack.

IMO, after watching GH’s stabilized video, he clearly has a pack of some sort, and it’s not a small one. I’m curious if the witness who saw him, remembered the pack.

Also, since I see more of the bag on his left side (or from our view, his right side), I wonder if the uneven distribution of the weight of his pack could also affect the way he’s walking. Regardless, due to the walking surface alone, I don’t think BG’s gait can be analyzed in any definitive way. Unfortunately.

Sorry if this “bag” chatter is old news. I’m pretty new to the thread.

I wanted to hop in and say "yes", to all of this, ALSO I notice in the Gray video how much his jacket is "popped open" in front from snap to snap or button to button, which I think could indicate something like a backpack on his back, pulling his jacket backward and "popping open" the front.

 

[Boxer]

I think everything was so thought out for the PC that Carter is basically saying - he does not walk abnormally in real life. Look for other things.

Agree.
MOO BG is stepping right to start cutting Abby off from joining Libby off
the bridge.

MOO
Mannerisms, I didn't think there were any.
I looked again as suggested. Then I
saw this, he has a couple of head movements which seem to reveal his manner of moving.
He looks ahead, side and down - all normal things to do on the bridge, but it's done in his own way. Fast.
MOO to me his manner of movement is very quick but somehow soft and slidy or slinky.

 

[MistyWaters]

Imo you are onto something. Be nice and yell them a hurt puppy. Yep I think that would get two down the hill. How else could he control two people going down a hill. Then it was not until they got down there they realized something wasn't right.

I’m confident LE must know the answer to this. All we’ve heard of the audio is “guys...down the hill”.....but then what? He obviously gave a reason, the girls would’ve responded in some way. So the audio after those three or four words were spoken is far more important than “girl talk and mention of a man” because by the time the murderer was communicating with them, presumably the girls knew they were in a dangerous situation and Libby might’ve been fully aware her cellphone was capturing the entire interaction.

Which brings a different thought borrowed from somebody else who mentioned it here a couple days ago. IIRC LE only released the audio clip to assist in IDing the voice and early on they assisted in clarifying the three words were “down the hill”. But that was it. Does anyone recall anything more said about it because I don’t. In hearing only the three words so often, have we come to associate it with a three word command, maybe even at gunpoint.

But is that a correct assumption? What if it’s only part of a sentence? For example -
Guys, a bunch of us are hanging out down the hill. Come on!

Taking that even a step further, if LE never claimed the three words were a interconnected phrase....What if guys, down, the, hill are each an unconnected word that was spliced together to make a short phrase? And done in a way not to change the voice tone, instead the purpose was to intentionally alter the context of the murderer’s spoken words to protect the integrity of the investigation?

 

[Boxer]

I’m trying to recall what the answer to this is, if they had the day off as well, or rather they had “in service”. Anyone?

IIRC The teachers had an inservice day.