Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Jax49]

What weight and height range have we seen given?

Per FBI posters:

"The person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a White male between 5'6" and 5'10", weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddishbrown hair. His eye color is unknown. The suspect is believed to be between 18 and 40 years old but may appear younger."

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/abigail-williams/@@download.pdf

 

[Ccging]

google Websleuths Indiana 23 missing located 2019.......moo

I’m not finding it

 

[Confusion]

I was listening to the audio again today, and I heard something different this time. It may just be that my mind is trying to make the noise into something 'familiar', but I can't listen without hearing it now. It would make no difference in anything, and would get us no closer to knowing who or where he is, but I'm going to say it anyway (just in case someone else has heard it, too.) Between the "Hey, guys" and the "down the hill", I've been hearing (faintly) him saying, "I'm going to take you." I've only noticed it on the last recording I listened to, but I'm going to go back and listen to other copies to see if I hear it there too. If it is there, it makes it seem more likely that the file was damaged some, or there were other noises that they took out. MOO

 

[loreet]

This post is MO and speculative. If Libby’s and Abby’s murderer is on the younger side, I would be surprised if he has any kind of police record. As parents we protect our children and I believe someone in his life has done this for the murderer. They keep close tabs on him because they know he has ‘bad thoughts’ and has had them since his teenage years. Yet he could still appear to be a devoted son and/or husband. There may be a history of violence or some type of abuse in his own past — maybe not something that ever reached LE but stayed as a family secret. His family might not know he killed these girls but they do suspect he could be capable of killing. He could have a fascination with shows and books about murders and murderers. We don’t know if sexual assault was a component of this crime but if it was, he likely has rape and violent sexual fantasies and this is also known to someone close to him. I believe it is possible that either he himself or a relative could be on this forum or other boards or sites.

This is all MO and unfortunately based on knowing a young murderer.

 

[x_files]

This post is MO and speculative. If Libby’s and Abby’s murderer is on the younger side, I would be surprised if he has any kind of police record. As parents we protect our children and I believe someone in his life has done this for the murderer. They keep close tabs on him because they know he has ‘bad thoughts’ and has had them since his teenage years. Yet he could still appear to be a devoted son and/or husband. There may be a history of violence or some type of abuse in his own past — maybe not something that ever reached LE but stayed as a family secret. His family might not know he killed these girls but they do suspect he could be capable of killing. He could have a fascination with shows and books about murders and murderers. We don’t know if sexual assault was a component of this crime but if it was, he likely has rape and violent sexual fantasies and this is also known to someone close to him. I believe it is possible that either he himself or a relative could be on this forum or other boards or sites.

This is all MO and unfortunately based on knowing a young murderer.

Reminds me of Austin Sigg. His mother was aware he viewed violent child *advertiser censored*, did NOT report him but instead enabled him. Sent him to religious counseling. IMHO

 

[TL4S]

Is it wrong of me to think that many of us are giving BG too much credit? I mean no disrespect by that, because I know we're all here to better understand the criminal mind and to share ideas, but we're either giving this guy impairments - both in physical, and mental capacities - or we're giving him craftiness that I just don't think he deserves. JMO

 

[kkdj]

Priest-penitent privileges exist in most of the US, so a priest would not be able to disclose a confession.

https://www.law.indiana.edu/instruction/tanford/b723/11priv/R11.pdf

Something like this would create such a conflict in a priest I would think. How could a priest, knowing such a thing, allow a monster to keep being in society?

 

[gitana1]

Is it wrong of me to think that many of us are giving BG too much credit? I mean no disrespect by that, because I know we're all here to better understand the criminal mind and to share ideas, but we're either giving this guy impairments - both in physical, and mental capacities - or we're giving him craftiness that I just don't think he deserves. JMO

I'm shaking my head yes. I get the sense we will find a person of average intelligence.

 

[TL4S]

agreed, the family may be blissfully unaware, but the killer will start acting edgy this weekend. Something will seem off to them.

Of note: Everybody who knew C. Rivera, the accused killer of Mollie Tibbetts, said there was nothing that changed about his personality and he was back at work like normal the next day.

 

[MizStery]

Someone posted it here. I've looked and can't find it. I think actually on the last thread. It was a news video from before the bodies were found and featured two young guys who were searching when it was dark.

Hello gitana1:Thank-you for all the valuable information you provide.

It makes me so happy (therefore my tickled pink emoji) to finally answer a question from you.

I brought my post forward from the previous thread. If I remember correctly it is the second link from the post below that you are looking for. If not it is the first one

First link of Ron Logan talking about the CS on his property:
Owner of property where girls’ bodies found says he feels home is no longer his sanctuary
There is a second link:
Delphi man (Ron Logan) shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies
Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies
This is all my theory just attempting to find logic in the methodology young BG might have used.

 

[MassGuy]

Is it wrong of me to think that many of us are giving BG too much credit? I mean no disrespect by that, because I know we're all here to better understand the criminal mind and to share ideas, but we're either giving this guy impairments - both in physical, and mental capacities - or we're giving him craftiness that I just don't think he deserves. JMO

Yeah, there’s some middle ground there, a place where I think he lies.

He was physically able to murder two teenage girls, so any impairment in that regard, is likely minimal to non existent.

I don’t think he’s all that bright, but that doesn’t mean it’s because he’s suffering from some mental disability.

Average appearance and intelligence, puts him on par with most people.

That’s actually something that would suit him well, especially in regards to identification.

 

[moonlessnight]

Here's what I think the delay in an arrest is:

So, the new sketch existed from day 3 but was dismissed. - why? Bc there was an alibi or verified reason for that person and/or their vehicle to be near the crime scene?

now, 2 years later, there is enough info to conclude that the guy in the new sketch is highly implicated, and the guy in the old sketch has been cleared.

If the new sketch guy's DNA is not in CODIS and they aren't able to get it surreptitiously, they need the person giving his alibi to turn so they can prove probable cause to get a warrant for DNA. Without his DNA or probable cause for a warrant to obtain it from him, they can't arrest him unless they want to try a circumstantial case, which they don't, I'm sure.

With an alibi or false reason for being in the area, they can't get a warrant for DNA and they can't prove a circumstantial case.

Someone needs to stop lying.

 

[Yellow Rose]

These are stills from a short video of the crime scene as seen from the opposing bank of the creek. (The crime scene tape is in the background.) It seems to clarify whether or not the girls wound up where they did under their own power, or by being carried or dragged.

View attachment 181591 View attachment 181592

Is there honestly any reason for him to have taken the time to drag their bodies up the hill and dump them where they were found? I’d honestly think he’d have quickly made his exit....

 

[JDough]

If I had the link I wouldn't be asking for information.
My memory is far from perfect but I thought I had read about a church showing the film recently and that there was a flurry of discussion here about it.

Hope this is what you are looking for, Mama:

I think the discussion may have revolved around the posting of the March 2017 UMC newsletter? (The movie night information can be found on page 8).

This was posted by OfficerHops. Thread 90, page 25, post #493.

http://www.delphiumc.org/hp_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/MARCH2017-NEWSLETTER.pdf

 

[loreet]

Reminds me of Austin Sigg. His mother was aware he viewed violent child *advertiser censored*, did NOT report him but instead enabled him. Sent him to religious counseling. IMHO

Yes! In the case of the young murderer I am thinking of, his parents had internal family debates about sending him to counseling — and no, he never went. They DID attempt the medication route however, taking steps to get antidepressants for themselves and diverted them to their son. Denial is dangerous.

 

[x_files]

Is it wrong of me to think that many of us are giving BG too much credit? I mean no disrespect by that, because I know we're all here to better understand the criminal mind and to share ideas, but we're either giving this guy impairments - both in physical, and mental capacities - or we're giving him craftiness that I just don't think he deserves. JMO

Agreed. Probably got lucky and has average intelligent no mastermind.

 

[x_files]

Yes! In the case of the young murderer I am thinking of, his parents had internal family debates about sending him to counseling — and no, he never went. They DID attempt the medication route however, taking steps to get antidepressants for themselves and diverted them to their son. Denial is dangerous.

yikes. I honestly feel bad for any parent who has to come to terms their own child/teen is a violent and dangerous predator. What can a parent do? Medication won't stop violent tendencies alone. But we need to prevent more cases like this.

 

[TL4S]

Yeah, there’s some middle ground there, a place where I think he lies.

He was physically able to murder two teenage girls, so any impairment in that regard, is likely minimal to non existent.

I don’t think he’s all that bright, but that doesn’t mean it’s because he’s suffering from some mental disability.

Average appearance and intelligence, puts him on par with most people.

That’s actually something that would suit him well, especially in regards to identification.

Exactly. IMO, he's a nobody. As in, nobody special. Doesn't stand out for any reason. Average job, average personality, average looks, average intelligence. This is how he hides in plain sight.

 

[MassGuy]

Here's what I think the delay in an arrest is:

So, the new sketch existed from day 3 but was dismissed. - why? Bc there was an alibi or verified reason for that person and/or their vehicle to be near the crime scene?

now, 2 years later, there is enough info to conclude that the guy in the new sketch is highly implicated, and the guy in the old sketch has been cleared.

If the new sketch guy's DNA is not in CODIS and they aren't able to get it surreptitiously, they need the person giving his alibi to turn so they can prove probable cause to get a warrant for DNA. Without his DNA or probable cause for a warrant to obtain it from him, they can't arrest him unless they want to try a circumstantial case, which they don't, I'm sure.

With an alibi or false reason for being in the area, they can't get a warrant for DNA and they can't prove a circumstantial case.

Someone needs to stop lying.

If they strongly suspected someone of this, and DNA evidence does exist (I think it does in some form), then they could simply ask for a cheek swab.

If he did say no, then they would be able to get it surreptitiously. Sometimes it takes time, but it can always be done. It might take forever, but where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Alternatively, they could get DNA from a close family member, and see if there’s a partial match.

That’s why I don’t think they have their eyes on a specific individual.

 

[MistyWaters]

These are stills from a short video of the crime scene as seen from the opposing bank of the creek. (The crime scene tape is in the background.) It seems to clarify whether or not the girls wound up where they did under their own power, or by being carried or dragged.

View attachment 181591 View attachment 181592

This video also illustrates how difficult it would’ve been to thoroughly search areas beyond the trials and pathways by flashlight throughout the night.