Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[kkdj]

I am over a thread behind and trying hard to catch up, but here is a good a place as any to start. Quoted is BBM.

A police car or a fire department vehicle.
JMO

I always pictured an identifiable vehicle, not an average unnoticeable one, so this is good thinking. For some reason, I pictured an old car, like from the 50's or older. Anyway, something that would stand out. For some reason, LE thinks someone will remember from 2 years ago and the driver of that vehicle. Could even have been an ambulance or a hearse.

 

[Evinrude]

Same question. Someone ignored too many things it seems.

It’s been said by some on here, did a self proclaimed witness come forward to throw off investigation? Obvious reasons there.
Did LE take the “easy” road at first and have tunnel vision?
Definitely some back pedaling going on.
At any rate, I hope they find the real people involved.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I just re watched a GH video that I had seen some time ago. Wow....I urge anyone who hasn't seen it or if its been a while since you've seen it you should take a second look. In light off the latest details provided by LE this video gives some good context.
Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana

At the 18:03 mark - GH mentions that the witness saw the suspect with a scarf on.

How the heck did I miss this detail? Is this a new piece of info?
Is this regarding the suspect in Sketch 1 or Sketch 2?

 

[sunshineray]

I think #1 sketch guy (which is actually the second sketch done 5 months later) was supposed to be the "fall guy" because of his "sketchy" past (pun intended). But, of course, he wasn't the perp for this crime and the DNA would have showed that. What perplexes me is that they didn't shift gears right then and there, and go back to the sketch done 3 days after the murders. Makes me want to scream

Maybe they just recently identified the sketch #1 guy? There has been talk online about that possibly. It would settle that question you have for me, if someone who favored the first sketch was recently cleared.

 

[margarita25]

Do we have any footage from this event in Feb 2018?

"On Feb. 13, Delphi United Methodist Church will hold a candlelight vigil for the girls. This one won’t be a police update. And it won’t have the media circus. (Ladd says the church will ask media to give everyone space that night.)

“We’re going to talk about how the girls lived and how we’re touched by their life and how we want to live and honor their life,” Ladd said. “So, this anniversary is less about the death as it is about the life. …

“I totally believe we’ll have justice for these girls,” Ladd said. “Whether that justice is on this side of eternity or on the opposite side of eternity, I do not know. But I do believe justice will be served.”"

Delphi double homicides: 'Horrible to live like this,' a year after Abby and Libby were killed

—-

“IF YOU GO: A community candlelight vigil for Abby Williams and Libby German will be held at 6:30 p.m. Feb. 13 at the Delphi United Methodist Church, 1796 N. U.S. 421.”

http://www.jconline.com/story/opini...ides-year-later-horrible-live-like/312413002/

 

[kc1023]

"Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

Just going off this quote from an ISP Sgt. She's at first ambiguous about even interviewing the suspect and then gets pretty definitive about "The person...gave...information they were looking for."

Is this quote as confusing to others as it is to me?

ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

BBM
My interpretation of that is that the person told LE what they wanted to hear. Like when you say "ok, ill do it" to someone even if you aren't going to do it, you tell them what they want to hear so they leave you alone. jmo but that's how it came across to me

 

[FinePrint]

At the 18:03 mark - GH mentions that the witness saw the suspect with a scarf on.

How the heck did I miss this detail? Is this a new piece of info?
Is this regarding the suspect in Sketch 1 or Sketch 2?

Exactly!!!

 

[susiQ]

For me, "something stinks in Delphi" and it isn't the cheese, it's CCC and any one person or more that steered this investigation away from him.

Have you ever had a bad odour coming from your refrigerator but can't find where it's coming from? You don't do anything right away, but then it gets worse, so you start looking for the "culprit". You find something. Ahaah! Found it, and you chuck it out. Fridge still stinks but it'll go away now. But it doesn't. You keep looking and voila! You found something else. You throw it out and you think that was surely it. But alas, the stench persists and all the while it's getting worse. The rotten tomato fooled you, the mouldy hamburger fooled you but finally you just take the bull by the horns and empty the entire thing out and there you go! In the deep recesses of your over crowded refrigerator of fresh food and leftovers, there it is, a rotten, oozing, foul potato. That's CCC. Hidden behind the other not so savoury items you thought were the the cause of that horrible stench. Well, get out the Febreeze, there's some fresh air coming to town real soon! Always IMHO.

 

[enelram]

Underlined by me. I don't have evidence, but I always assumed that Libby's phone was found at/near the crime scene. Seeing this new quote lends credence to the what some have found to be an off-hand type remark about Libby's phone "pinging all over town" that day. I had assumed he had meant before the girls disappeared, as it has been mentioned that Libby was asking around for a ride to the park that day.

Now, I think the perp had Libby's phone, and carried it around town later that day to locations that investigators may make the case for the perp being a local or locally connected (seem to know the area).

Also, "the importance of the car being local." How would they know that unless they had the tag number OR was there some local business advertisement on the car? For example only: Uber sign? Pizza delivery? What other cars would have a local business advertised on them? Car seems to rule out a work truck type vehicle, plumber etc.

What say you? Looking for feedback. TIA.

I say LE knows for a fact this car was seen (and tagged) on day
of murders and parked in area related to crime. There's no question this car was there and identified by license plate/registration. LE casually checked it out day or so after
murders but was assured by ALIBI of person owning car that
driver had perfect right to be parked there. The ALIBI person
was known as local person of integrity. LE being local where
everyone knows everyone says "Nothing to pursue here, this
guy's word is golden". Now fast forward, an outsider LE, says
hey wait a minute, maybe we need to take another look at
whoever was driving that car, that day. Repeat- an outside LE
like ISP or FBI went back to double checking the case files to
see what was missed the first time around. Outside eyes picked
up this misstep. This huge misstep.
PC showed community that LE on some level has to be eating crow right now because that car was a huge, neglectful misstep.
And maybe perp has been driving all over town in plain sight
because local LE bought the alibi's story without thoroughly
investigating it.
moo

 

[FinePrint]

At the 18:03 mark - GH mentions that the witness saw the suspect with a scarf on.

How the heck did I miss this detail? Is this a new piece of info?
Is this regarding the suspect in Sketch 1 or Sketch 2?

Also near the start of the video GH says Libby called Derrick while he was already running errands for Becky in Frankfort. I have to listen again but I believe he said that Libby was already at the trails when she called Derrick to ask him to pick them up on the way back. If so this is important because this would be the last time her voice was heard. Was it prior to the 2:07 timestamp on the Abby photo or after. GH reports that the drive back from Frankfort is about 35 minutes?

 

[x_files]

Thoughts on this:

They had the pic from the phone and felt the subject did not match the pic/video, clothing too large, gait, age, etc.?

-or-

Someone described this person they had seen on the trail. It was identified who it was and he was located and talked to. They knew him or his family, believed him and/or he was alibied "solidly" so they shelved him or considered him just another witness/hiker, just as the person who described him was probably considered...

-or-

Perhaps the person responsible for this sketch was not trusted for some reason and no one else's account matched hers or they felt it was a false accusation against someone she did not like or had it in for...?

-or-

A combination of some of these things...?

The next question which has been asked is what changed this? Did an alibi start to come apart? Have they realized he is not the kind of guy they thought he was? But why two years? Did new or advanced technology help maybe with the video, etc., show it was clearly a disguise? Did someone come forward? Are there two involved in some way...? The first one is known (sketch) and only now they know they need to find the second as well...?

I tend to wonder if they know who but need just a bit more evidence for a prosecutor to bring the case... Or are attempting to get a bit more before they charge it with less...? Coming forward after an arrest would probably not be as meaningful as if they can get an independent witness or someone now before an arrest...?

Just talking out loud. All jmo.

wheels of justice move very slowly...investigation, evidence has to be airtight in order for DA to accept it.

 

[sunshineray]

My thought is still that the new sketch guy was never really cleared because he was never properly investigated. I think he was known by local police and dismissed because of familiarity. If ISP or the FBI had questions about him, local LE vouched for him.
This is not an indictment of the local police. I imagine things were very hectic and confused the first few days after the murders. I can understand there being a mentality of “don’t waste time on this guy we know is OK, let’s go find the real bad guy”. It’s unfortunate LE got so sidetracked they didn’t come back to it for two years.
My problem with my own theory is why is LE acting like they don’t know who it is? Arguing with myself! LOL!

I think poster Wells may have hit on something. A shared family car type senario, where a cleared person of the community knows they weren't driving the car or their car was missing that day but said they either drove it there to help search or it was somewhere else with them, not at the scene? They did this to cover for someone? It could explain the LE not providing a description of the car, they NEED someone at the scene to do that.

The way this is worded could fit a scenario like that.
"We're still looking for the car that was parked in the lot," Riley told News 18. "If somebody can give us that information, we want that information as quickly as possible."

ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

 

[MistyWaters]

Underlined by me. I don't have evidence, but I always assumed that Libby's phone was found at/near the crime scene. Seeing this new quote lends credence to the what some have found to be an off-hand type remark about Libby's phone "pinging all over town" that day. I had assumed he had meant before the girls disappeared, as it has been mentioned that Libby was asking around for a ride to the park that day.

Now, I think the perp had Libby's phone, and carried it around town later that day to locations that investigators may make the case for the perp being a local or locally connected (seem to know the area).

Also, "the importance of the car being local." How would they know that unless they had the tag number OR was there some local business advertisement on the car? For example only: Uber sign? Pizza delivery? What other cars would have a local business advertised on them? Car seems to rule out a work truck type vehicle, plumber etc.

What say you? Looking for feedback. TIA.

I can’t think of a reason for investigators to claim the phone was found near the bodies if it was retrieved elsewhere. If the perp had possession of the phone he’d know that’s not where it was found.

The reason they believe the car was local appears to because the driver had local knowledge. For example, the location where the vehicle was parked was not a public parking lot so it appears it was a place where locals knew their vehicle wouldn’t get towed or ticketed.

 

[x_files]

I say LE knows for a fact this car was seen (and tagged) on day
of murders and parked in area related to crime. There's no question this car was there and identified by license plate/registration. LE casually checked it out day or so after
murders but was assured by ALIBI of person owning car that
driver had perfect right to be parked there. The ALIBI person
was known as local person of integrity. LE being local where
everyone knows everyone says "Nothing to pursue here, this
guy's word is golden". Now fast forward, an outsider LE, says
hey wait a minute, maybe we need to take another look at
whoever was driving that car, that day. Repeat- an outside LE
like ISP or FBI went back to double checking the case files to
see what was missed the first time around. Outside eyes picked
up this misstep. This huge misstep.
PC showed community that LE on some level has to be eating crow right now because that car was a huge, neglectful misstep.
And maybe perp has been driving all over town in plain sight
because local LE bought the alibi's story without thoroughly
investigating it.
moo

It happens too. human error, especial if local LE trusted the individual.

 

[JustEve]

"Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

Just going off this quote from an ISP Sgt. She's at first ambiguous about even interviewing the suspect and then gets pretty definitive about "The person...gave...information they were looking for."

Is this quote as confusing to others as it is to me?

Absolutely. Especially that last part- which person gave what information to whom? Are they (LE) expressing themselves so poorly on purpose?

Not to mention the part about the car moving quickly across the town on the day of the murders- how do they know that?

If they know that car, it wouldn´t have to be so hard to identify the driver of it. Why (new) witnesses then?

I don´t understand a thing here anymore...

 

[FinePrint]

I say LE knows for a fact this car was seen (and tagged) on day
of murders and parked in area related to crime. There's no question this car was there and identified by license plate/registration. LE casually checked it out day or so after
murders but was assured by ALIBI of person owning car that
driver had perfect right to be parked there. The ALIBI person
was known as local person of integrity. LE being local where
everyone knows everyone says "Nothing to pursue here, this
guy's word is golden". Now fast forward, an outsider LE, says
hey wait a minute, maybe we need to take another look at
whoever was driving that car, that day. Repeat- an outside LE
like ISP or FBI went back to double checking the case files to
see what was missed the first time around. Outside eyes picked
up this misstep. This huge misstep.
PC showed community that LE on some level has to be eating crow right now because that car was a huge, neglectful misstep.
And maybe perp has been driving all over town in plain sight
because local LE bought the alibi's story without thoroughly
investigating it.
moo

And I completely agree with this!!

 

[kkdj]

At the 18:03 mark - GH mentions that the witness saw the suspect with a scarf on.

How the heck did I miss this detail? Is this a new piece of info?
Is this regarding the suspect in Sketch 1 or Sketch 2?

Ah yes. I recall this now. Also, I would like to reintroduce the description Derrick gave of the man he spoke with. Did he have a scarf on?

 

[margarita25]

On a side note, they are reconstructing the bridge. Seems like investing into cameras should be appropriate.

Re: cameras, (still looking for a certain quote from @gregjrichards/ Quoting for reference:

"The task force is now in the middle of adding lighting, cameras, informational kiosks and Wi-Fi. Mayor Evans said there will be cameras at each entry point. But, there won't be any along the trails.

"We can't put a security camera at every hundred feet," said Evans. "So what we have tried to do and the recommendation from the trail task force was, to put those security cameras at the entrance to the trails. So that we know who is coming in and going out."

"To set up a system that would retrieve and record information from the cameras requires a much different array of technology, much more cost," said McCain. "And it isn't something that we felt like even for trail walkers to think that they're being spied on all of the time."

Justice for Abby and Libby special report: Revisiting the bridge

—-

"The task force will also be adding trail markers at every tenth mile. That way if someone has to call 911 for help they can tell police exactly where they are."

Snip

"Many hope one day more than just the bridge can be restored. They hope this place can eventually go back to being a safe and peaceful spot.""

Justice for Abby and Libby special report: Revisiting the bridge

—-

Delphi, Ind., Launches Crowdfunding Campaign to Improve Historic Trails System
Lighting, cameras, informational kiosks and public Wi-Fi will all be installed at certain points along the trails, and access to Freedom Bridge Plaza and Bicentennial Plaza will be improved.
Delphi, Ind., Launches Crowdfunding Campaign to Improve Historic Trails System

"It is inspiring to see the response Delphi citizens and officials have had to the tragic murders of Abby Williams and Libby German earlier this year," said Lt. Governor Suzanne Crouch, who chairs the IHCDA Board, in a press release issued Wednesday. "This project will make the historic trail system safer and renew a sense of security for residents and visitors of Delphi.""

Snip

"Additionally, trail markers will be erected at every tenth of a mile along the trails so local Emergency Services can have more precise information on where 911 callers are and how to best reach them. An endowment fund will also be supported at the Carroll County Community Foundation to provide for long-term maintenance of the trail safety measures."

Delphi leaders working to raise $50K to add cameras, lights to trails where teens were*murdered
POSTED 4:40 PM, JULY 5, 2017, BY ALEXIS MCADAMS, UPDATED AT 05:40PM, JULY 5, 2017
Delphi leaders working to raise $50K to add cameras, lights to trails where teens were murdered

"DELPHI, Ind. –It has been nearly five months since Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered on the Delphi Historic Trails.

“We will find this individual,” said Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

Their killer is still out there.

“It is always going to be on our minds until something happens,” said Julia Leahy.

Leahy grew up in Delphi and is the executive director of the Carroll County Chamber of Commerce. She says she has noticed a drop in visitors since the murders and says some people still avoid the trails due to safety concerns."

Delphi task force reaching out for donations for trail safety plan
Delphi task force reaching out for donations for trail safety plan

"The Trail Safety Task Force has been accepting donations to add lighting identification markers along the trails where two young friends were abducted, then murdered, last February."

Snip

"In addition to trail markers every tenth of a mile to assist 911 dispatchers in locating those in need of help, lights, cameras and public WiFi are part of the safety plan.

"Lighting is a top priority around entry points," said Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, who said while the trail closes at dusk, lights will help police patrols and surveillance cameras on the trail.""

 

[kkdj]

Re: cameras, please see these posts:
(Pulling)

If I recall, the mayor suggested putting up cameras.

 

[susiQ]

Maybe they just recently identified the sketch #1 guy? There has been talk online about that possibly. It would settle that question you have for me, if someone who favored the first sketch was recently cleared.

I think they identified him quite a while ago and that's what concerns me. I'm sure he was cleared at that time and I don't understand why LE didn't shift gears to the other sketch at that time.