IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #3

[Bob Saccamano]

If he was up on the bridge, he might have been able to see them walking around below him, towards the river bank. And he could see there was no one else nearby...

That is another aspect that I've been wondering about- was he there at that time because he was expecting them or was he just there prepared if the opportunity presented itself? The statements early on from LE had a hint that they may have been interacting with someone online- paraphrasing but something about knowing what is going on in your kids' lives.

 

[Soulmagent]

I kinda wonder if the whole Abby on the bridge at 207 isn't a photo taken to lead family to one thing when the opposite is occurring.

 

[Elainera]

They were found a considerable distance upstream from the bridge. If they were pushed off the bridge, they would have likely sustained injuries that would have made it hard to move them to where they were found.

I don't really see much way that they were carried or even had more than their hands bound to get them to their final location.

That is what I'm hung up on. The perp traveled through some very difficult terrain with two teenage girls. I fully understand that he could have forced their compliance with a gun or weapon and that they would not want to leave each other, but it appears they had to cover a good amount of ground on foot, even if they were driven a part of the way. There is a lot of that creek bank that is visible from that bridge. Even Mr. Logan said when interviewed near the scene where they were found that you could walk a short distance and see the bridge. If you could see the bridge, you could potentially be seen from the bridge.

That is what I'm struggling with on this- it was broad daylight and they were moved over a good portion of ground on foot, it seems. That is risky. He had to know that they wouldn't try to run or couldn't run. He had to feel like where they were going, he could do so without being seen or heard. It isn't like they were quickly stuffed into a car and then dropped 15 feet off the side of a road. They were ~50' from the creek and I can't find any spot where that would have been accessible by car.

That's why I don't think he forced them down to the creek. The girls were probably at the cemetery and he approached them there with a ruse. They followed them willingly into the dense wood and down the slope, and somewhere there, but still covered by trees, so not easy seen from the bridge or other trails if at all, he did what he did. Then just left them there or pushed them further down the slope, and off he went. It's the only scenario that makes sense to me.

 

[katydid23]

That is another aspect that I've been wondering about- was he there at that time because he was expecting them or was he just there prepared if the opportunity presented itself? The statements early on from LE had a hint that they may have been interacting with someone online- paraphrasing but something about knowing what is going on in your kids' lives.

I am 50/50 on that. It seems like if the girls had been interacting online with the killer, the FBI would have found that already. But who knows. Maybe they have and aren't saying so---or maybe the girls used snapchat to communicate and the evidence is already gone. My daughter and her friends talk to each other w/snapchat videos all of the time. And she says they auto-delete themselves after the other person reads them.

But we have all seen cases on here where sick predators just seize opportunities when they present themselves. And this did not seem to be preplanned or well thought out. But then again maybe it was---since they seem to be stumped...

 

[perfectingpink]

I am 50/50 on that. It seems like if the girls had been interacting online with the killer, the FBI would have found that already. But who knows. Maybe they have and aren't saying so---or maybe the girls used snapchat to communicate and the evidence is already gone. My daughter and her friends talk to each other w/snapchat videos all of the time. And she says they auto-delete themselves after the other person reads them.

But we have all seen cases on here where sick predators just seize opportunities when they present themselves. And this did not seem to be preplanned or well thought out. But then again maybe it was---since they seem to be stumped...

I think LE might actually be able to tell who the girls were in contact with via Snap Chat. Here is their legal statement. (Page 8 and 9 have the info on what Snap Chat saves, for how long and what LE can request.)


https://www.snapchat.com/lawenforcement
Which takes you to the following:
https://storage.googleapis.com/snap-inc/privacy/lawenforcement.pdf

 

[CoreyRocks]

Is Logan's property to the east or West of the cemetery? I'm thinking East?

Either way, the location of the bodies would be South of his property, down by the creek.

In the interview with the property owner (RL) he stated his property goes all the way to the creek and runs along the creek for 1/2 (one half ) mile. He owns a lot of land.

 

[margarita25]

(Hi, midnight crew checking in :wave:

I'm so behind, going back to read and check latest msm, came here first, what's the latest? Any progress or word from LE? )

Eta: Did they catch the (s)? Apparently not.

 

[Elainera]

(Hi, midnight crew checking in :wave: . I'm so behind, going back to read and check latest msm, what's the latest? Any progesterone or word from LE?))


Dear god how do I fix autocorrect. Progress.

Lol! No, no hormone-laden announcements.

But we had a few really great maps and good discussions. The photo, of course, was re-analysed and is still driving everyone nuts.

New people joined, very nice to see them all sharing their knowledge and viewpoints.

Ah and we all missed Foxfire!

 

[margarita25]

Lol! No, no hormone-laden announcements.

But we had a few really great maps and good discussions. The photo, of course, was re-analysed and is still driving everyone nuts.

New people joined, very nice to see them all sharing their knowledge and viewpoints.

Ah and we all missed Foxfire!

Dang you got me I deleted all that other stuff about progresterone but you quoted me already lol. Trying to keep all the content clear here, this is serious business! )

I look fwd to reading yalls posts.

 

[margarita25]

Lol! No, no hormone-laden announcements.

But we had a few really great maps and good discussions. The photo, of course, was re-analysed and is still driving everyone nuts.

New people joined, very nice to see them all sharing their knowledge and viewpoints.

Ah and we all missed Foxfire!

Girl you're rocking it from the other side of the globe!

 

[SuzDuJour]

I'm leaning towards the perp having taken the girls at the pick-up point, using a car and possibly parking at the cemetery, then walking them to the spot where they were found. He seems unperturbed by the broad daylight, other people on/around the bridge and abducting two girls at once. And would the cemetery possibly be busier because of Valentines Day? It seems as if nothing was going to deter him.

 

[cathdawg]

On another Forum, i saw what they depicted
the POI, on FB...

 

[margarita25]

I'm not kidding, I'm actually kind of dressed like that picture dude right now...

(I think we might all need to step away from the picture dude for just a minute, close your eyes and take a deep breath, I'll speak for myself...)

 

[rotary_dial]

It would be interesting to know if they were found bound or showing signs of being bound. That would help explain how he could have controlled both of them. You can fashion a pair of handcuffs out of paracord, using a prusik knot. Very easy to construct, carry in a pocket, and slip on someone. Extremely difficult to escape from.

Bind hands behind someone's back and you can easily lead them around by pulling the wrists straight back and up until the person complies. Even if they break free and run they are likely to trip or lose balance and fall on their face. Very hard to get back up and run again before they could be recaptured. Add a blindfold and it would be all but impossible to get away.

As mention upthread, if the killer used rope, hopefully it would lead back to them and tie them to the murders (no pun intended).

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[margarita25]

Have we analyzed his jacket yet? Make, model...how many pockets...what about the logo on the front of his cap, is there one?

 

[margarita25]

It would be interesting to know if they were found bound or showing signs of being bound. That would help explain how he could have controlled both of them. You can fashion a pair of handcuffs out of paracord, using a prusik knot. Very easy to construct, carry in a pocket, and slip on someone. Extremely difficult to escape from.

Bind hands behind someone's back and you can easily lead them around by pulling the wrists straight back and up until the person complies. Even if they break free and run they are likely to trip or lose balance and fall on their face. Very hard to get back up and run again before they could be recaptured. Add a blindfold and it would be all but impossible to get away.

As mention upthread, if the killer used rope, hopefully it would lead back to them and tie them to the murders (no pun intended).

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

ARS used zip ties...

I think it's just me and carbuff, carbuff and I excuse me, who might possssibly see a coil of rope sticking out of his coat, maaaaybe? Or the fringe from the clothing. Feel free to say you're not seeing it. :biggrin:

Eta: I probably have that P thing, I dare not try to type it here with autocorrect problems.

 

[margarita25]

What about tomnod or digital globe?!?!?

 

[cathdawg]

On another Forum, i saw that they showed what they thought was the POI,his FB

 

[margarita25]

(Hey LDRN, hope you're healing well from that broken foot! )

 

[margarita25]

Some things from looking at this google earth shot-

The terrain is rough. it is a steep drop to the creek in a number of areas.

If he walked them there from the bridge. It had to be with some method of controlling them. The other thing that the creek area is from the line of sight from the bridge until you get to the second area. This is part of why I felt the perp may have taken them to 2nd area because I thought he may have walked them to a spot until he felt they were no longer visible from the bridge. The thing about this is how would he know how far he could go without coming to the back of another property and into view if he weren't at least vaguely familiar with the area.

I also looked at the cemetery and there does appear to be a an area in the SW corner of it that a car could park and be reasonably hidden. This could support the idea that they were taken from somewhere between the drop off area and bridge and driven to the cemetery.

Again, I'm not sure where they were found as I've seen two different spots referenced.

Just bringing this post fwd to stare at.