IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[Inthedetails]

Thanks for all of your hard work...I would have liked to have taken a ride with you there!

This image supports the fact that the man in the photo was walking from the Northwest to the Southeast simply based on the position of the sun and the shadows in the photo.

If he is truly the suspect, the girls would have to have been on the Southern side of the bridge at some point.

There is a deeper wooded area on the South side so why force them back to the North?

I think the perp was on the N end of the bridge walking toward them. They were walking back across the bridge after having crossed it once. He struck up a conversation with them (my guess it was about finding something they were on an adventure to find) and he offered to show them they way to it - or perhaps to show them the way to a cool place in the park.

I think it was friendly at first, though perhaps awkward. I think the girls were polite to him and he didn't come across as scary. Libby recorded it perhaps because she was recording the day in general, or maybe she pressed the record button when she started to get a weird feeling when he led them off the main trail.

I don't think it turned ugly until after he had them in an isolated place off the trail. I do not think he threatened them on the bridge. Maybe he even took them to a shed or other structure rather than do his ugly deeds in the outdoors.

I think it went quick and he was outta there by the time people were looking for the girls.

jmopinion from what we know now.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

My thoughts on the possible routes taken.

At 2:07 Abby and Libby were on the bridge and had crossed over the water. Abby is walking in the south/east direction in the snapchat photo.

At some point Abby and Libby reach the end (or close to the end) of the bridge on the south/east side. We know this because of the video stills of the . He is walking towards Libby's camera and towards the south/east end of the bridge.

The billboards that show just the , list the time as the being "last seen" as 2:30pm. This would possibly fit with the video stills.

To go "down the hill" at the south/east end of the bridge and cross the creek to the crime scene is about 450 to 550 feet depending on the exact route.

To go back across the bridge to the north/west end of the bridge, go "down the hill" and to the crime scene is over 2000 feet depending on the exact route.

Both routes will lead to the crime scene but to me the route from the south/east end would be more likely. Seems more isolated at the south/east area after watching all the videos.

Also, the bridge is in disrepair, and crossing all the way back to the north/west end would need to be done slowly and carefully. The bridge is about 850 feet long.

There was another person who said she arrived at the north/west side of the bridge at approx. 3pm. She said she did not see the girls.

Maps of possible routes. (2 different views)

View attachment 111265View attachment 111266

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

http://wane.com/2017/02/24/fbi-expanding-billboards-for-tips-in-indiana-teens-killings/


https://bridgehunter.com/in/carroll/high/#Desc

All of this makes sense if he was controlling them from the time shortly after the photo (Libby's video.)

But if he is controlling the girls and directing them down the hill, why leave the protection/cover of the trees and cross the water? Nana, the WSer who visited the area yesterday said searchers were concentrating on the area to the north east the bridge.

I think he spoke to them at the SE end of the bridge and the girls were creeped enough to leave to go back to where they were to be picked up. Like "hey, we gotta go, our ride is almost here." I believe he followed them to the north side and when there was no one there, witnesses or their ride, he took control of them, by whatever force he used. Unfortunately they were probably dead by the time their ride showed up. Rest in peace, Libby and Abby.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[Momma2cam]

This is a very interesting read! Thanks for posting it. Some things I've learned in the first couple of pages:

* Stranger abductions leading to murder of children are VERY rare. Only about 100 per year. This really hit me. How incredibly tragic for Libby and Abby and all the others and their families. Like being hit by lightening.

* For every 10,000 missing child reports only approximately 1 is an abduction murder.

* Typically the victims are average, low-risk victims, girls (76%), and a little over 11 years old.

* Victims are typically dead within 3 hours.

* Average age of killer is 27, unmarried (85%), half live alone (51%), or live with parents (34%).

* And 61% of the killers had prior arrests for violent crimes with 53% of those crimes being against children.

Like I said, very interesting read. I'm still reading.

I also found it interesting that in 76% of cases, LE has the name of the suspect within a week. Yet, they don't always know at the time that they are a suspect.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[skibaboo]

You got internet back? Yay!

YES! P H E W

(can you believe this? Eventually we figured out an engineer last week, in repairing my neighbours broadband, cut and used MY line to repair theirs?)

 

[#1nana]

Thank you so much for the pictures yesterday #1nana. It must have been quite emotional to visit the area. I really appreciate the completeness of your photos, helps to get a better feel. Can you confirm that it is easy to get from the cemetery where we suspect he might have parked to the area where the girls were found without having to cross that barbed wire fence and risking ripping ones privates? He doesn't look very agile to me to negotiate a fence. TIA.

There was an area with no barbed wire, that's where the path crossed into the woods from the cemetery. From the start of this I couldn't imagine why anyone would drop their kids off here. When I got there it was a very bright, open, sunny area not far off the road, contrary to the aerial photos. Park benches along the river. Very calm and beautiful. I wouldn't have thought anything about it either now that I saw it. I might change my mind come summer when the foliage is full but it was a very well maintained area. I didn't walk from the northside of the bridge over to the cemetery so I don't know? They were searching there and I didn't want to interrupt and be rude. But you can see the cemetery from the parking area at the entrance to the bridge. It's that close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yellow Rose]

This is a very interesting read! Thanks for posting it. Some things I've learned in the first couple of pages:

* Stranger abductions leading to murder of children are VERY rare. Only about 100 per year. This really hit me. How incredibly tragic for Libby and Abby and all the others and their families. Like being hit by lightening.

* For every 10,000 missing child reports only approximately 1 is an abduction murder.

* Typically the victims are average, low-risk victims, girls (76%), and a little over 11 years old.

* Victims are typically dead within 3 hours.

* Average age of killer is 27, unmarried (85%), half live alone (51%), or live with parents (34%).

* And 61% of the killers had prior arrests for violent crimes with 53% of those crimes being against children.

Like I said, very interesting read. I'm still reading.

Thanks! I printed it so I could read it at break time

 

[Rosewater20]

All I am going to say is I hope the police have checked out ALL facebook social media pages connected with the girl's interests. Not talking about the bridge. Even if it is just a business page with not much activity. anyhow I am sure they have. Was it o.k to post this?. I promise that is the last I will say about social media pages.

 

[layer]

Eventually we figured out an engineer last week, in repairing my neighbours broadband, cut and used MY line to repair theirs?)

In other words, you sleuthed the situation.

 

[Yellow Rose]

74% of abducted children are murdered within three hours of the abduction, ughhh

 

[Inthedetails]

In other words, you sleuthed the situation.

I am assuming there was a map as well!

 

[SuziQ]

When I first joined in the dialogue, there was a tv news crew that walked the path police believed BG and the girls took to the final spot. It was off the bridge, at the north end and directly to the right, "down the hill."

This is what the police had said (I will have to try and find that tv link) and they sounded matter of fact about the route. Oh, and they even panned across to the closeness of the house across the street.

And, because of the tv report, I assumed that this had to be.

Also someone posted a rather straight forward map of the path coming off the bridge at the north end, going right and following a path along the water to the final spot - no water crossing (I cannot remember who or which thread, sorry).

I said at the time that I felt that the girls were on their way back north and BG got on and approached them closer to the north side. Remember I am the one that keeps going on about how that is Abby's jacket in the photo and I surmised that Abby was in front of Libby, on the way back north, and that he was coming south towards them as they were leaving.

But then those two videos came out placing BG and the girls way south on the bridge, closer to the exit at the south end and that video changed my mind completely as to which end they exited the bridge because of the their closeness of the south end and also everyone going south in pictures - it just made sense at that time with the new visual perspective.

Those videos are really indisputable because of all the natural marking points (significant trees, et al.)

And knowing they were so far out, it seemed bizarre that girls would be marched back across the whole length of the bridge towards the populated end. So then the focus became the south end. Because of that I gave up the idea of him passing them and then getting them on the rebound going north, it just seemed too far.

The new theory about the south end has niggled at me but the new visual evidence seemed much easier to justify because of the probability of him marching them back that far across almost the entire length or following them across without them making a run off that bridge and for that house seemed far-fetched to me.

So, did he pass them and, they being creeped out, turned turn back a bit early to get off that bridge?

Or did they go almost the south exit and turn around with him following them the whole time?

Did they think they were probably safe because they were heading back towards a populated area and therefore didn't run?

Did they walk with him.

Thank you for your post. This is exactly what I turned over and over in my mind yesterday.

 

[TTF14]

There was an area with no barbed wire, that's where the path crossed into the woods from the cemetery. From the start of this I couldn't imagine why anyone would drop their kids off here. When I got there it was a very bright, open, sunny area not far off the road, contrary to the aerial photos. Park benches along the river. Very calm and beautiful. I wouldn't have thought anything about it either now that I saw it. I might change my mind come summer when the foliage is full but it was a very well maintained area. I didn't walk from the northside of the bridge over to the cemetery so I don't know? They were searching there and I didn't want to interrupt and be rude. But you can see the cemetery from the parking area at the entrance to the bridge. It's that close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder if this gap in the fence has always been there or if it was only recently vandalized to create the opening.

 

[Hatfield]

All JMO

Adding some musings

The TV crew that was there I think had Chris Hansen who we know did those specials on criminals using SM and contacting underage victims. I think their show will suggest SM was somehow involved with this case.

I do think geocaching explains why the girls went there that day. I think it was a small hobby they had. The one photo of Abby by herself looking down seems like she is looking for the cache.

I was surprised how many other people were at the bridge that day and I do think LE must have interviewed them a lot. It surprised me that this bridge must have been a popular place to go.

I do think the perp had a small beard or goatee or some facial hair under his mouth. Seemed to be grayish in color.

I think he did have a hood and or a cap on because one photo shows an indent on top of head like the material is folding down there. I dont think it could be just his hair there because of that indent. I also considered he may have had both on. Maybe even a cap turned backwards holding down the hood while having a hood on too.

I am keeping confidence that LE will catch him. Just surprised there have been no arrests yet. I think he may have left the area. Glad billboards signs are going up.
He must have had local ties because he seemed too confident on that bridge.

 

[WebSight]

All of this makes sense if he was controlling them from the time shortly after the photo (Libby's video.)

But if he is controlling the girls and directing them down the hill, why leave the protection/cover of the trees and cross the water? Nana, the WSer who visited the area yesterday said searchers were concentrating on the area to the north east the bridge.

I think he spoke to them at the SE end of the bridge and the girls were creeped enough to leave to go back to where they were to be picked up. Like "hey, we gotta go, our ride is almost here." I believe he followed them to the north side and when there was no one there, witnesses or their ride, he took control of them, by whatever force he used. Unfortunately they were probably dead by the time their ride showed up. Rest in peace, Libby and Abby.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Yes, I think that in trying to adjust my thinking to back north after being convinced that they stayed heading south, I made the ASSUMPTION that they were being marched back under duress the whole way. But perhaps they weren't under duress until the end. Additionally, if they were spooked by him, they certainly couldn't run on that bridge, so he could overtake them at some point closer north?

 

[SuziQ]

I've looked and looked for a post made in the past few days.

IIRC, the poster did research that showed the creek was at 4ft that day...at this time of year creeks and rivers are usually quite swift from spring rains and run-offs IMO, too deep and swift to cross. I think he marched them down the North end of the bridge. IMO.

 

[TTF14]

On the off chance this is a teen/young person (or group of them) who did this, I hope there is some kind of appeal to the youth in the area who might have knowledge of kids who access the trails from the opening in that cemetery fence. Or really anyone who has knowledge of anyone who routinely enters the trail that way.

 

[ab01]

I know we arn't suppose to really talk about geocatching in relation to the case. But i would like to state that per the geocaching site, you dont have to go on he bridge to recover the cache, its on a support under it. Which is why i suspect you see the little walking path going down the left side of the entrance to the bridge. vissible on one of user illinoismissings' photos. for what its worth. And for the record I am not implying that it has anything to do with this case.

 

[layer]

Speaking of billboards, I'm really surprised I haven't seen one here yet. It's well known that all fugitives wind up in Las Vegas.

 

[ninij9]

My thoughts on the possible routes taken.

At 2:07 Abby and Libby were on the bridge and had crossed over the water. Abby is walking in the south/east direction in the snapchat photo.

At some point Abby and Libby reach the end (or close to the end) of the bridge on the south/east side. We know this because of the video stills of the . He is walking towards Libby's camera and towards the south/east end of the bridge.

The billboards that show just the , list the time as the being "last seen" as 2:30pm. This would possibly fit with the video stills.

To go "down the hill" at the south/east end of the bridge and cross the creek to the crime scene is about 450 to 550 feet depending on the exact route.

To go back across the bridge to the north/west end of the bridge, go "down the hill" and to the crime scene is over 2000 feet depending on the exact route.

Both routes will lead to the crime scene but to me the route from the south/east end would be more likely. Seems more isolated at the south/east area after watching all the videos.

Also, the bridge is in disrepair, and crossing all the way back to the north/west end would need to be done slowly and carefully. The bridge is about 850 feet long.

There was another person who said she arrived at the north/west side of the bridge at approx. 3pm. She said she did not see the girls.

Maps of possible routes. (2 different views)

View attachment 111265View attachment 111266

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

http://wane.com/2017/02/24/fbi-expanding-billboards-for-tips-in-indiana-teens-killings/


https://bridgehunter.com/in/carroll/high/#Desc

Excellent theory. I agree as well. Based upon time of photo, I just cannot see perp coercing them back over 850 feet of bridge and taking that long route on the north side. From every single photo I've seen, the creek was low enough to cross that week right at the bottom of the hill on the south side, then a MUCH shorter route to the crime scene.

The north side crossing just seems wrong. But I have been wrong enough.
I wish LE was allowed to at least give us their map of what route they assume the girls took. I think that is one of the reasons why they continue to scour the area. How could anyone KNOW for sure besides BG and our girls.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[kellala]

From the released voice memo I speculate this is a ruthless monster. He may not interact with the girls in SM, because he doesn't need to. All the girls activities are in SM and pretty public. He just need to know Feb 13 is a no-school day (from the school calendar) and has good weather. He will just wait there for the girls to show up. He doesn't need to pretend to be a teen boy or pretend to lost a puppy. Too cheesy for such a killer. He just be there and done his job/horrible crime! I bet he barely talks at all unless he has to.JMO