IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #38

[Tricia]

I found it on one of the Abby & Libby FB sites. I only assume it is an ISP pic because it says INDIANA STATE POLICE on the bottom of it but you never know I guess because someone could have easily edited the pic and added ISP on it. I guess the WS mods don't want it on the site so that's why I only posted the one I changed the color to black & white on there...

If you can find the same photo on any Law Enforcement or approved site please bring it over. I would LOVE IT if we could find this picture from an approved source.

It's not that we don't want the picture here it's that we don't want to spread false information.

Did you see how quickly this spread? All of a sudden it was a fact that BG had something hanging from his belt when in reality until we get this from an approved source, we don't know if this picture is real.

The only way we can keep Websleuths reputation as being a reliable site is to make sure we deal with facts when it comes to evidence released.

This is to everyone, please stop making so much extra work for the mods. PLEASE.

Tricia

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

Hi guys, newbie to this thread. I usually frequent the JonBenet Ramsey thread.

Having a 13yo daughter myself, this case haunts me. I have so many questions regarding this case. Apologies if they have already been covered.

Do we know if the girls had planned on meeting up with this BG under a guise of a teenaged boy?

Why didn't the girls message, call, alert someone or 911? I'd like to think that in this kind of situation my daughter would.

Did the girls try to run or get away from this guy? Again, I'd hope my daughter would. But if he threatened them with a gun (just speculating) I see why they wouldn't.

Do we know the cause of death?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bemused]

I think something happened minutes before the recording started. He might have already ordered them to march across the bridge or whatever it was he wanted. I believe that she was walking in front and stealthily turned and started videotaping. I don't believe that what we are seeing is the first interaction of the moment; I think there were several unaccounted for minutes before she started filming. And, heck, what we've seen might even be 5 minutes into the recording. We have no real context of when that video was shot.

If you saw the original photo that was not cropped, he is quite a distance away from them when that particular frame was shot and why it's so pixilated. That's why I am of the opinion they didn't feel immediately in danger, and it makes more sense to me that they knew who he was. My opinion.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Hi guys, newbie to this thread. I usually frequent the JonBenet Ramsey thread.

Having a 13yo daughter myself, this case haunts me. I have so many questions regarding this case. Apologies if they have already been covered.

Do we know if the girls had planned on meeting up with this BG under a guise of a teenaged boy?

Why didn't the girls message, call, alert someone or 911? I'd like to think that in this kind of situation my daughter would.

Did the girls try to run or get away from this guy? Again, I'd hope my daughter would. But if he threatened them with a gun (just speculating) I see why they wouldn't.

Do we know the cause of death?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome. And the disappointing answer to these questions is we only have speculation. LE has not confirmed these details you asked about, but many of us are awaiting those same answers with you.


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[No it's not]

If you can find the same photo on any Law Enforcement or approved site please bring it over. I would LOVE IT if we could find this picture from an approved source.

It's not that we don't want the picture here it's that we don't want to spread false information.

Did you see how quickly this spread? All of a sudden it was a fact that BG had something hanging from his belt when in reality until we get this from an approved source, we don't know if this picture is real.

The only way we can keep Websleuths reputation as being a reliable site is to make sure we deal with facts when it comes to evidence released.

This is to everyone, please stop making so much extra work for the mods. PLEASE.

Tricia

Adding to it, if enhancing an image, it is a good idea to post the original image together with a few notes on how it was processed. Am I safe to say that?

Some general enhancement reference guide here:

http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/Graphics_Software_Terminology.asp

-Nin

 

[azshadowwalker]

Agreed. The type of predator who grooms a young girl he is in charge of and takes off is typically different from the kind who assaults and murders kidsnhe may not know.

Absolutely agree. Both are predators, but of a different kind.

I would love to see any evidence- not anecdote- that gender socialization has radically changed for the younger generation from earlier generations. Besides articles in Slate or Buzzfeed about mansaimimg and manspreading, what evidence is there that gender stratified socialization has changed?

I would actually say it is worse today, because younger women have bought into the idea that it's wrong to hurt men's feelings by simply knowing the stats about violence against women (i.e. who perpetrates it in the vast majority of cases). Women of my generation (mid-40s) grew up with a different kind of feminism and the idea of crushing gendered stereotypes and behaviors. The "third wave" is much more accommodating to men. I just don't think young girls have the same framework; they are socialized to defer in a more dangerous way than ever, because it's now considered "progressive".

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

Welcome. And the disappointing answer to these questions is we only have speculation. LE has not confirmed these details you asked about, but many of us are awaiting those same answers with you.


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Thanks! And I figured as much, guess it's all just a waiting game now. Hope these girls get justice very, very soon!

 

[kc1023]

My theory keeps morphing but now I'm somewhere in the following MOO neighborhood...

It seems to be generally accepted that there is a meth problem in Carroll County, IN as there is in most, if not all, counties in Indiana. So is it possible that BG is a random drug criminal heading across the bridge to go out into the woods to wherever the meth lab is and he sees A&L sitting at the end of the bridge taking pictures and filming. If they were being picked up at the access road and had finished the trail early they could have just been hanging around waiting. So he sees them, sees the camera, has a meth panic and forces them "down the hill" to where his meth lab and/or partners are and says "hey i caught these two up on the bridge effing filming us!" and then things went very, very bad very quickly.

All of the above is MOO and theoretical only.

 

[CoreyRocks]

Does anyone else remember wayyyyy back in the beginning, ... and I'm not sure if it was an actual 'quote' by LE, or if it was just 'reported' by reporters at the time.. but it was said that LE were 'treating' it as a double homicide?

I clearly remember this because it annoyed me when I heard it. At the time.. I had been waiting for the girls to be found, fully expecting that any moment it would be reported that they had been found safe. Instead, it was reported their bodies had been found and that police were 'treating' it as a double homicide.

I thought to myself, well of COURSE it's a double homicide, what ELSE would it be.. it kind of irritated me. When I go searching for that, I can't find police saying that, so it may have just been a reporter saying it that way (but even if so, where did the reporter get that from?).

I have always wondered about that, because it's not exactly a normal way to refer to a murder(s), and considering the way that police have referred to this case having a 'twist', and never in 30 years having seen something like in this case, and the thing about the 'nightmares'.. I have been wondering if it's possible that the killer somehow tried to make it *seem* as if it was something different than a double homicide. ie I have wondered if the killer could have even forced one of the girls to kill the other one, and then the killer killed the remaining one afterward.

Have been wanting to post this weird thought for awhile, but no time. If you disagree, that's fine, like mentioned, it is just a thought that passes through my mind. Not sure if this has ever been mentioned or thought of before because too difficult to read all of the posts. Respectful discussion welcomed.

That thought crossed my mind also. Or what if the perp's thrill was forcing them to kill each other?

 

[Bemused]

That thought crossed my mind also. Or what if the perp's thrill was forcing them to kill each other?

No disrespect intended, but what if a traveling minstrel forced them to consume elderberries until they exploded?

I personally find all the wild speculation and embellishing of rumors or imagination to be a waste of time and rather disrespectful to all involved. There are facts that are known and, in my mind, some are trying to put a monochromatic puzzle of 1000 pieces together with 99% of the pieces missing.

 

[tokyorose]

My theory keeps morphing but now I'm somewhere in the following MOO neighborhood...

It seems to be generally accepted that there is a meth problem in Carroll County, IN as there is in most, if not all, counties in Indiana. So is it possible that BG is a random drug criminal heading across the bridge to go out into the woods to wherever the meth lab is and he sees A&L sitting at the end of the bridge taking pictures and filming. If they were being picked up at the access road and had finished the trail early they could have just been hanging around waiting. So he sees them, sees the camera, has a meth panic and forces them "down the hill" to where his meth lab and/or partners are and says "hey i caught these two up on the bridge effing filming us!" and then things went very, very bad very quickly.

All of the above is MOO and theoretical only.

I do think Delphi has a meth problem..JMO Also, JMO but I think that RL might have known that some shady things were going on on his property, but 40 acres is a lot to keep up with when you're 77 and it would be easy to have a "kids will be kids" attitude until he got word that 2 girls wound up dead on his property. How this relates to the murders I don't know, but in JMO there may be a connection.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

No disrespect intended, but what if a traveling minstrel forced them to consume elderberries until they exploded?

I personally find all the wild speculation and embellishing of rumors or imagination to be a waste of time and rather disrespectful to all involved. There are facts that are known, and in my mind, some are trying to put a monochromatic puzzle of 1000 pieces together with 99% of the pieces missing.

:tyou::goodpost:

 

[layer]

My theory keeps morphing but now I'm somewhere in the following MOO neighborhood...

It seems to be generally accepted that there is a meth problem in Carroll County, IN as there is in most, if not all, counties in Indiana. So is it possible that BG is a random drug criminal heading across the bridge to go out into the woods to wherever the meth lab is and he sees A&L sitting at the end of the bridge taking pictures and filming. If they were being picked up at the access road and had finished the trail early they could have just been hanging around waiting. So he sees them, sees the camera, has a meth panic and forces them "down the hill" to where his meth lab and/or partners are and says "hey i caught these two up on the bridge effing filming us!" and then things went very, very bad very quickly.

I just don't see this crime as drug-related in any way. JMHO

ETA: (or elderberry related)

 

[ab01]

No disrespect intended, but what if a traveling minstrel forced them to consume elderberries until they exploded?

I personally find all the wild speculation and embellishing of rumors or imagination to be a waste of time and rather disrespectful to all involved. There are facts that are known and, in my mind, some are trying to put a monochromatic puzzle of 1000 pieces together with 99% of the pieces missing.

I guess the big question is how many pieces of that 1000 piece puzzle does LE have....


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[Richie]

"Some investigators will continue working at the current command center, located in the former Carroll County REMC building at 119 W. Franklin St. in Delphi, while others from out of town or out of state will return to their "home base" and will still be within reach, Riley said."

I hate to be a bummer but it seems like LE has no idea who committed these homicides. There is just so much confusion; what happened to the 'fast-tracked' DNA? Then they said 'they never concluded whether they had DNA or not.' Releasing more information already will help this suspect get caught, it seems like the investigation is coming to an end. Even though Sgt. Riley states, "this does not mean the case is going cold," I think it's just to make the public feel safe and to not receive a bad backlash. Sucks to admit it but it's the REALITY of this case.
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...n-scaling-delphi-investigation-back/99583064/

 

[Jethro4WS]

From where that man is to the yellow tape is it straight up a hill? The crime scene yellow tapes appears very high unless of course it is uphill. ?? TIA.

The crime scene tape is further downhill from the cameraman below. And it is approximately 50 or so feet ahead of him. Compared to the rest of the terrain the crime scene area is relatively flat. The tape appears higher because you are seeing it behind trees that are at an angle because they are on the slope of the hill. While the crime scene tape is probably uneven the best indication of its height from the ground is seen at the right hand side corner. There are pictures from the Fox59 Twitter (maybe on the media thread) that show that at that right corner the tape goes around a smaller tree just slightly right of the bigger tree at that corner and that particular photo would show how high off the ground it is - maybe 3 1/2 to 4 feet. I don't have that photo handy but maybe someone else does.

 

[Oregonmama]

Clarity would be wonderful I agree! Bemused seemed confused about a statement I made regarding RL and I asked her if she checked out the scanner thread.

can i have the link to the basement ? I have wine and popcorn to share

 

[expatCanada]

Post the link to the picture you saw where BG was "quite a distance away from them".... etc. TIA

If you saw the original photo that was not cropped, he is quite a distance away from them when that particular frame was shot and why it's so pixilated. That's why I am of the opinion they didn't feel immediately in danger, and it makes more sense to me that they knew who he was. My opinion.

 

[Bemused]

I guess the big question is how many pieces of that 1000 piece puzzle does LE have....


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I worked on a case involving multiple agencies that took more than two years for an indictment, and many months to arrest all accused. That wasn't a violent crime where anyone lost their life, either. It takes time and they'll want to be very careful to not jump the gun.

 

[Oregonmama]

I am so depressed about this case. I can not believe he (or they) is getting away with it thus far. How is that possible, especially with FBI involvement, which one would assume means they have access to latest and greatest detective resources and techniques? We already know they have some evidence, and likely there was more. So was he just simply lucky? Or is this someone who carefully planned it out and knew he'd likely get away with it? Disgusting either way.

Very much planned out. The Missy Bevers case is in the same situation.