IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #4

[ninij9]

Thanks kittymittons

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[JJ007]

Been on and off for several days. Has anyone considered the pics of the perp are of two different points in time at the same spot? Meaning a trail cam is motion activated? So, for example in one it looks like he's got a hood on (maybe after crime) and another before with hood down? Also in one of the pics there's something close to the left, maybe a branch or another person before him? It's not in every pic, but one news outlet has a wider shot. Thanks.

 

[njcanuck]

Did they find the girls possibly buried..? That could explain, why they may have been overlooked during the first search. Just saying.

-Nin

They didn't say, but in the photos from the crime scene, there are allot of leaves on the ground. I suspect the killer may have covered them with leaves to camouflage the bodies from view and thus accounting why they were not visible from higher ground during the initial search

 

[njcanuck]

Been on and off for several days. Has anyone considered the pics of the perp are of two different points in time at the same spot? Meaning a trail cam is motion activated? So, for example in one it looks like he's got a hood on (maybe after crime) and another before with hood down? Also in one of the pics there's something close to the left, maybe a branch or another person before him? It's not in every pic, but one news outlet has a wider shot. Thanks.

Further up in the tread, someone did an overlay of the two images in a .gif It appears the 2 images are in frame sequence showing the stride of the suspect

 

[skibaboo]

Sorry for the obsession with aerial maps, but the thing I've had the hardest time with regarding this case is the logistics-

I am interested in how the perp accessed and exited the area because I feel this speaks to planning and familiarity. I'm assuming he used a vehicle, so he had to park it somewhere. On a broad level, he could only park East or West of the bridge/trail and North or South of the river.

Initially, I felt the most likely place to park would be the SW corner of the cemetery in the wooded area. This makes sense because it provides for some cover, it is an area that isn't too alarming to park a car if someone happened upon it. It also requires the least amount of foot travel to the bridge and out of the area after the crime and is the main reason that I feel this would speak to planning as I would imagine he'd want to exit the area quickly after committing the crime. This positioning of a vehicle would render it unnecessary for him to cross the bridge at all, but doesn't mean that he wouldn't do so to blend in or to get in a position that he felt he could best intercept them. It could also be a situation of random opportunity, but that would raise different questions. At this point, I feel this position of a vehicle to be one of the more likely ones, mainly because I feel he took them to where he did for some reason and part of that would have to do with being able to escape unnoticed. This position would mean he would have the least likelihood of coming into contact with a witness after the crime because it wouldn't require him to cross the trail or get near the bridge before leaving.

The 2nd most likely position to park a car is one that I didn't notice at first until I zoomed in. There is a driveway off of W 300N that intersects the monon bridge trail. I've shaded it in white. Looking closer, it crosses the trail and appears large enough for a vehicle. It goes roughly parallel to the monon trail down toward the river. I remember one of the witnesses interviewed that saw a man, but not the girls, mentioned that she did not take the trail to the right. At first I assumed that meant the trail that intersected the bridge trail on the south end of the bridge, but it could actually be the shaded trail on the North side of the Creek. If one were walking toward the bridge, it would be on the right. It does appear to me that someone could have driven a car down there, but it would be a little more conspicuous if a witness were to happen upon it. This position would also require the perp to cross the trail after the crime to get back to his car and pull out of the area where it is possible to encounter witnesses. Again, if it were more of an opportunistic situation, this might not have been planned for or perhaps would speak to the level of sophistication based upon the level of risk taken.

There are also several areas(blue arrows) South of the bridge that it appears a vehicle could have been placed. These would indicate to me less sophistication or planning because it means he'd have to risk crossing the bridge after the crime and risk being seen. It would also have him parked on a drive that serves a private residence which would make a vehicle stand out, even risk being called in as a trespasser. This would, however, require him to cross the bridge twice unless he crossed the creek itself and in 40 degree weather and seeing the depth of it in most places, I doubt this.

I'd like to hear some others' thoughts on this. The fact that there is no description of a vehicle of interest leads me to believe that he either didn't use one which I find unlikely or that he didn't park in a spot that anyone else came across while his vehicle would have been there. This rules out a few of the more common areas, because any vehicle seen by a witness has been checked into by law-enforcement and I'd bet if there was a vehicle that couldn't be identified, then I feel they may have released info to the public to try to locate it. Back to work... More maps-

The more I look at maps the more I think the perp followed the girls down by the creek on the south east side of the bridge. I think they walked along there and once they were far enough past the houses he made a move, they became aware and tried to get away. I've read and heard Libby was a strong swimmer, the creek would be cold but it was shallow in a lot of places. I think they thought that may be the best option. He cornered them and they tried to escape across the creek?

I've got visions of the girls cold and wet huddled together trying to hide across the creek, trapped by the man(men) one way and the terrain the other, too steep to climb.

 

[kittymittons]

Did they find the girls possibly buried..? That could explain, why they may have been overlooked during the first search. Just saying.

-Nin

I got the feeling they were overlooked during the first search because they were technically found on private property, which you can't search without permission. The owner of the land called them I believe and gave them permission. I could be remembering that wrong though.

 

[ianthe]

Been on and off for several days. Has anyone considered the pics of the perp are of two different points in time at the same spot? Meaning a trail cam is motion activated? So, for example in one it looks like he's got a hood on (maybe after crime) and another before with hood down? Also in one of the pics there's something close to the left, maybe a branch or another person before him? It's not in every pic, but one news outlet has a wider shot. Thanks.

BBM

The lighting looks the same to me, along with his position in the bridge. I think they were taken at the same time, and in both he's mid step. It appears to line up.

Previously people have mentioned that it could have been a trail cam not necessarily on/near/pointed at the bridge, that was set off by something closer, which would explain that bluish line on the left of the photo. He could be waaay in the background for all we know.

 

[lmadler]

The more I look at maps the more I think the perp followed the girls down by the creek on the south east side of the bridge. I think they walked along there and once they were far enough past the houses he made a move, they became aware and tried to get away. I've read and heard Libby was a strong swimmer, the creek would be cold but it was shallow in a lot of places. I think they thought that may be the best option. He cornered them and they tried to escape across the creek?

I've got visions of the girls cold and wet huddled together trying to hide across the creek, trapped by the man(men) one way and the terrain the other, too steep to climb.

So here is my question. Were they found on the opposite side of the river of the drop off/pick up point?

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[JJ007]

Ok thanks.

 

[ianthe]

So here is my question. Were they found on the opposite side of the river of the drop off/pick up point?

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No. They were found on the north side of the creek. The same side as the drop off.

 

[lmadler]

No. They were found on the north side of the creek. The same side as the drop off.

Thank you

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[TigerLilly]

The more I hear, the more I'm wondering if the person who killed Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins did this too. I wonder if LE will compare DNA from the cases.

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[thenitsaid]

Definitely something in left pocket and looks like he's wearing a brown satchel to me

 

[Jethro4WS]

So here is my question. Were they found on the opposite side of the river of the drop off/pick up point?

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Same side.

 

[carpeverum]

Just found this, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Police-Warn-of-Convicted-Child-Murderer-Set-Free-317640951.html

 

[Justice101]

At first I was scratching my head how someone could kill TWO girls at the same time without one of them running away. But looking at the victims in this case, it's entirely possible the perpetrator grabbed one of them (maybe the larger girl) and then put a knife to her throat and told the other one to come down into the woods with him or he would slit the grabbed one's throat.

That would allow the perpetrator to have control over both girls at the same time. Then, when all three were in seclusion down by the creek (away from the trail), he tells the smaller girl to undress, etc... (don't want to go there.. ... But regardless, ends up killing one and grabbing and killing the other one too. It was probably a gun but could have been a knife. But probably not strangulation due to the amount of time that would have taken and the other girl would have run and gotten away at that point. And I don't remember seeing anything about anyone hearing gun shots...so I am thinking a knife.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Is he younger than he appears - at first glance he looks like an older man but at other times, I swear he looks like an older teenager. Is he wearing headphones?
Why are clues always so grainy :gaah:

I think he is younger than we may think. I am not sure he is a teenager but he could be in his 20s to early-mid 30s. He seems to be of average height. The average height for a male is 5'9". Its hard to guess his weight since the jacket he is wearing really covers up much of his upper torso.

As far as wearing baggy pants.....where I live all ages wear relaxed fit jeans from young teenagers to older men. Now those that are hugely baggy (ugh) are usually worn by some young teen males but these seem to be the normal relaxed fit that so many males wear all over our country now.

I am now thinking he may have been a drifter/hitchhiker and someone who doesn't even know these two precious girls have been murdered.....picked him up...........which may have happened the very same day he killed them so he could be far out of the area now or even in another state.

Is there a truck stop around this area where he may could have hitched a ride with one of the truckers? A lot of companies do not allow passengers but there are many independent contractors on the road who do pick up people from time to time and give them a ride.

IMO

 

[ninij9]

Further up in the tread, someone did an overlay of the two images in a .gif It appears the 2 images are in frame sequence showing the stride of the suspect

That gif convincing me that stills are not captured from a stationary cam as the angle changed from one step to the next. It put me firmly in the phone video camp. That and the poor quality. My phone takes better pic than my 400 digital camera but the video quality when zoomed is awful.

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[BunnyHop]

further up in the tread, someone did an overlay of the two images in a .gif it appears the 2 images are in frame sequence showing the stride of the suspect

bump!!

 

[steelman]

LE still hasn't released an actual moving video of the suspect huh ? Well..........................I don't think they are going to catch him until they do, the public doesn't have enough to work off of with nothing but the still shots. These pictures are too fuzzy, grainy, and pixel-ed to be definitive. If they were good and useful pictures, there wouldn't be a 100 different theories circulating in here about what people are seeing.

I thought it was kinda humorous a couple of pages back where someone was actually taking the two pictures and making an animated gif out of it so they could try and see what it looked like as he was walking.
LE has a video of him walking, in real time. There are probably people out there that have seen these pics , and yes, it looks similar to someone they know, but not exactly. They may have held off picking up the phone and calling in a tip because they simply aren't quite sure. They don't want to point a finger at someone until they are 98% sure about it.

Very likely there are distinguishing characteristics about this guy when he is walking that would be instantly recognizable to someone that has known him for 20 years, but may not look like anything of note to LE. You see, LE hasn't known him his whole life, so they don't know his mannerisms or his little quirks. His Mother would, his siblings would, his close buddies would, his neighbors would.

It's been right at 7 full days now, a week, since these girls were ruthlessly murdered by a monster with no name. He's still walking around loose. He has a name. Somebody out there knows what it is. If LE will release 10 seconds of the moving video to the public, I'll bet they will have this guy within 24 hours. If the person(s) who may be holding back on calling in could get a little bit more clarification by seeing this persons' mannerisms as he strolls along, that might be just enough to get the call they need to round him up.