IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #41

[ninij9]

Without any recent news, most of what has been running through my head is speculation. But I had an interesting conversation with someone the other night regarding the case. I asked what would make YOU start to record someone? We both settled on a previous bad encounter, aka "hey X, that Y guy is coming back!", and some other theories. I'd like to hear what others opinions are of why YOU would start to record someone from 80' out? (per GH video assessments).

Everything is MOO.

If I'd previously had an unpleasant experience with him, perhaps 15 minutes before. Let's say I passed him on trail and he was exposing himself, or making lewd comments?

Or if I had veered off path and inadvertantly or on purpose crossed into private land and he had earlier chased me.

Or if I noticed he had been following me.

Things like that.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[antechinusRAWR]

While the thread's a little slower :

There's been some surprise expressed over the extreme differences of opinion re BG's features & his similarity, or lack thereof, to particular people.

It really isn't unusual though.


People are disagreeing because they are literally seeing completely different features, even when they're all looking at the same perfectly clear pic. When the picture isn't clear the differences of opinion are even greater.

This is why :

https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-26/edition-10/i-never-forget-face

There are large individual differences in face-recognition ability. Prosopagnosics – or sufferers from face blindness appear at one end of the scale. A large body of research has examined this deficit and considerably enhanced our knowledge of how all human’s process faces. Far less research has been conducted on super-recognisers who have the extraordinary ability to be able to recognise people they have only seen fleetingly. This article describes recent research conducted on super-recognisers, such as police officers who have used these skills to enhance detection rates. <<cont'd>>

You can do a range of tests here at the Cambridge University site to see if you might be a super recogniser. It'd be interesting to see if the people with consistently high scores all agree on whether BG resembles any known person ... or not

http://superrecognisers.com/



The issue of voice perception is similar. Ear witness testimony is even more unreliable than eye witness testimony.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221001701X

It is a routine observation that we can recognize voices, and sometimes remember them even after a long time. Although a speaker never utters twice exactly the same sound, listeners extract invariant features in the vocal signal to build representations of a speaker's identity that can be used to recognize that person from novel utterances. This ability is present very early in infants, and is shared by many animal species.Yet we are quite poor at voice recognition compared to face recognition. For instance, ear-witness testimony is notably unreliable and is not routinely accepted as evidence in a court of law. The phenomenon is made even more complex by some voices being easier to remember (more distinctive) than others.

They're also beginning to do voice recognition testing at the Cambridge link above. You'll be given an option to take further tests if you score in the possible super recogniser range.


If you've focused on a POI because of the pix or audio in this case, & you DON'T score consistently highly, it might be worth considering that your position might be less solid than it feels.

 

[ninij9]

If the perp successfully got them off site, though, in many ways he would be more home free. He could dump the bodies anywhere at that point.

What do you think his motive would be if he took them off site and then dropped them back at the site? Why take that risk? Just curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Especially in light of the fact that the area was positively crawling with searchers by early evening of the 13th.
WAY too risky, imo. I think it happened where they were found.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Madhom]

I have flirted strongly with RL being directly or indirectly involved, but have moved away from that leaning even more towards attempted abduction or flat out SK. ( I won't be shocked if RL has any involvement, but will be a little surprised). I'm guessing the 3rd will be a little telling.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

While the thread's a little slower :

There's been some surprise expressed over the extreme differences of opinion re BG's features & his similarity, or lack thereof, to particular people.

It really isn't unusual though.


People are disagreeing because they are literally seeing completely different features, even when they're all looking at the same perfectly clear pic. When the picture isn't clear the differences of opinion are even greater.

This is why :

https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-26/edition-10/i-never-forget-face




You can do a range of tests here at the Cambridge University site to see if you might be a super recogniser. It'd be interesting to see if the people with consistently high scores all agree on whether BG resembles any known person ... or not

http://superrecognisers.com/



The issue of voice perception is similar. Ear witness testimony is even more unreliable than eye witness testimony.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221001701X



They're also beginning to do voice recognition testing at the Cambridge link above. You'll be given an option to take further tests if you score in the possible super recogniser range.


If you've focused on a POI because of the pix or audio in this case, & you DON'T score consistently highly, it might be worth considering that your position might be less solid than it feels.

I'm not at all surprised people see different things. I am always a little taken aback when people state what they see so authoritatively that they don't expect anyone else to disagree with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[venutian21]

If I'd previously had an unpleasant experience with him, perhaps 15 minutes before. Let's say I passed him on trail and he was exposing himself, or making lewd comments?

Or if I had veered off path and inadvertantly or on purpose crossed into private land and he had earlier chased me.

Or if I noticed he had been following me.

Things like that.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I would agree with each of these situations being reason to record, thank you.

 

[jenthern]

Without any recent news, most of what has been running through my head is speculation. But I had an interesting conversation with someone the other night regarding the case. I asked what would make YOU start to record someone? We both settled on a previous bad encounter, aka "hey X, that Y guy is coming back!", and some other theories. I'd like to hear what others opinions are of why YOU would start to record someone from 80' out? (per GH video assessments).

Everything is MOO.

Another poster made the point that maybe the BG came from the end they were walking towards, passed by them, then turned around and started coming back towards them. THAT would make me suspicious enough to record what was happening. Also, if he were walking towards me really fast (especially on the bridge) and with purpose and a mean look on his face, that would also make me suspicious and fearful.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

IMOO, I think it is very important to add family members to this list. Children are taught to listen to family members or they are viewed as authoritarian in a child's life. They may speak similarly to a Teacher, Coach, etc.

I'm not implying that is what has happened in this case...I just believe it should be included in this list given above...

JMOO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Also it may be the only power he can exert because he is a loser. Moo

 

[St. Anthony2017]

ALL MOO---
Has anyone considered a link to the murders attributed to Larry DeWayne Hall? He lived a mere 50 miles away.

Although he is now in prison and couldn't have done this one, it's been suggested perhaps he did not act alone or that some of the murders were by another SK during the same time. Could Abby and Libby's be connected to someone who participated with LDH or another SK's work starting back then?

He/they stalked rural areas, small towns while on trips to war reenactments or car shows, etc. There were young girls biking or walking together who told their parents about him and got the license plate number to link him. He admitted to as many as 39 victims on his own but is known for recanting. In one interview he said he was tired of covering up for someone.

I did find these maps (no idea who made them) interesting- https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...l=en_US&ll=40.0483744,-86.46916769999996&z=11
And http://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=609888&x=-87.399274&y=39.469599&z=10
If considering a SK the maps and lists could be an beginning to the madness and I'm curious if there are maps of other more recent murders that could be added on such as Lyric and Elizabeth.

For details life events with possible victims attributed to him and further down details on his method, etc go here or view the video- http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Hall, Larry DeWayne.pdf
There is info such as method of killing was stabbing/strangling using knife/rope/belts. Interestingly his method of subduing was starting fluid which has ether in it to render a victim helpless. Some of his victims attributed to him were not hidden while others were. There are many details and it boggles my mind knowing I lived so close to this even attending the same vocational school and other events where he probably crossed my path.
video here- https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oxd3m_the-devil-you-know-civil-war-serial-killer_school

I found very little on him here on WS http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?247928-IN-WI-LARRY-DEWAYNE-HALL-1980-s-90-s

I think it would be good to interview recent violent felons in custody to see if anyone will identify him. No one likes child killers !

 

[ab01]

Especially in light of the fact that the area was positively crawling with searchers by early evening of the 13th.
WAY too risky, imo. I think it happened where they were found.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

It kinda surprises me that people have put so much thought into the taking them and bringing them back theory. I just don't see it as being that complicated for a variety of reasons. I still lean towards perp parked or walked from southeast of bridge passed girls on bridge, went past them and made sure nobody else was coming from the north. Turned around walked back toward southeast cornered girls and took them down the hill across the creek and killed them. Very quick and on his way. But this is all just speculation as I'm sure LE knew from day one weather the girls were killed there or taken somewhere else. So atleast we know the ppl that matter have this piece of the puzzle moo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ninij9]

O/T (sorry if it's too off topic) but I recently started following the page of a catahoula breeder on Instagram, and today saw he was located in Delphi. Made me sad, and I can't help but think of these poor girls

I had to Google Catahoula. Nice looking breed.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Eileen730]

I also have doubts there. I'm more of the "involved in some other way" variety.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I don't think he's involved at all.

I'm a firm believer they saw this man doing something nefarious and I think he met up with someone out there in the woods.
Jmo

 

[ocgrad]

The fact he is recorded before having drawn a weapon, that we know of, pure speculation; is what drives me to a previous encounter theory. Did Libby know this particular guys presence alone was not a good sign? I believe so. IMO. Thank you for responding.

I totally agree. She may not have known his name at that moment or been able to say it but she knew seeing him there was bad.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I haven't searched for answers to this question, just asking here: how often are registered sex offenders found to be the perpetrator in missing persons cases? I remember a Danielle, I think, that was taken and killed by an RSO neighbor. What are some others?

Delta, Ohio.. James Dean Worley (57 y.o) abducted and murdered Sierah Joughin last summer. However he was not really a RSO , but was convicted of abduction many years ago in which he basically plead down. Sierrahs Law is in the works as a result. Here is a link to the Toledo Blade article about it . alarmingly, it says that 0.91% of the population violent offenders are responsible for more than 60% of the violent crimes
In ohio.
http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics...nt-offender-registry-bill-moving-forward.html

 

[Chrystina]

Interesting. Now my mind is wandering again. There is no LE or MSM statement that has said where they were dropped off, correct? So we still don't know that part. I wonder....if Abby or both the girls had been seen entering from or near the South/SE entrance before..seen by someone on more than one occasion. MOO, pure thinking out loud again. Thank you.

There was a statement on a map on wlfi 18. I can't find it that said they were dropped off on 300.
I bookmarked it but it now says link broken. There's a few like that now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[St. Anthony2017]

If this is true why haven't they said anything? Have the been other cases where LE has announced they've had their suspect behind bars for x amount of time already? In the cases I've followed arrest announcements have been almost immediate.

I'm not questioning you like no way it can be true, just asking some follow up type questions.

Maybe they will solve other murders with the DNA results.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

Delta, Ohio.. James Dean Worley (57 y.o) abducted and murdered Sierah Joughin last summer. However he was not really a RSO , but was convicted of abduction many years ago in which he basically plead down. Sierrahs Law is in the works as a result. Here is a link to the Toledo Blade article about it . alarmingly, it says that 0.91% of the population violent offenders are responsible for more than 60% of the violent crimes
In ohio.
http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics...nt-offender-registry-bill-moving-forward.html

If you are unfamiliar with this case there is a large websleuths thread about Sierrah and her killer. He is suspected in Many other crimes but they have not brought additional charges yet

 

[Jade]

Regarding the motivation of recording BG:

Maybe they had previous even multiple encounters with whoever but shrugged it off in the past. Maybe they had skirted him before and it was “here we go again I’m going to record this time”.

They didn’t mention identity because it was obvious [to them] who it was.

I know they were not on LO property on the bridge but some folks can be protective of other nearby unattended private property that is frequently trespassed.

It keeps reminding me of an encounter I had. In my day we used to wander. One time we were cutting though a farm pasture and heard a strong loud whistle from a man who was in the distance but headed towards us waving us to come there. I was mid way stepping over barbed wire and the others started running away. Took me a second but I was soon close behind. Never forget that insistent whistle. Maybe he was getting ready to turn out a bull and was just worried about us but we assumed angry.

We expected he had a rifle for varmints like pesky wandering kids.

Here in the south our older farmers/ ranchers are tough as nails and every bit capable of strenuous activities so that may be coloring my thinking.

P.S. if I thought I was going to be stalking around on that bridge I would leave my little dog at home.


All just speculation and imo

 

[ninij9]

I haven't searched for answers to this question, just asking here: how often are registered sex offenders found to be the perpetrator in missing persons cases? I remember a Danielle, I think, that was taken and killed by an RSO neighbor. What are some others?

If your talking about Danielle Van dam and killer David Westerfield in Cali, he had no prior criminal record leading up to the murder

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I understand how this might seem true, however unconscious fantasies are enduring, motivating and not subject to becoming satisfied once fulfilled. In fact, it is just the opposite. Once it is fulfilled, the urge becomes stronger and more compelling.

Especially since he has gotten away with it so far!!