IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[MistyWaters]

If LE had the phone they had the video unless they didn't watch it until the next day. Same would be true if the video went to Snapchat.

Okay, yes I suppose. It just seems to me that if two teenagers went missing, especially if it were known their outdoor hike specifically involved photography, the first place anyone would check would be videos or photos.

On the other hand, if the video wasn't particularly concerning at the time, I hope that's not the best that LE's got.




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[TheVisual]

I agree - if they did a good job editing we wouldn't potentially be seeing areas that are up for debate. :laughitup: IMO, I think it's plausible to consider that they had a relatively short time to edit the image and it was good enough (aka, didn't show the victim).

I don't think it matters in the long run as evidence. Just found it interesting that even after seeing a pic probably 1000 times, that on the 1001st viewing, something can all of the sudden jump out at you.

The BG picture was taken 80 feet away from them. Have you seen the original? No one on the bridge except him at that end. We have the closeup because LE made it larger and that is why it is so pixelated.

 

[Molecularblonde]

Just a typical silly question from me:

Att he end of the day, does it matter who currently has Libby's phone?

Can you make an argurment for why it would be important for LE to physically have it? I mean, isn't everything she put on it "on the cloud" so to speak?

sorry in advance.
BTW, I live on an Island and we do not have cell phones due to crummy and sporadic reception. So perhaps my question is very dumb...

 

[Yvettea]

Okay, yes I suppose. It just seems to me that if two teenagers went missing, especially if it were known their outdoor hike specifically involved photography, the first place anyone would check would be videos or photos.

On the other hand, if the video wasn't particularly concerning at the time, I hope that's not the best that LE's got.




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That's a very good point.

 

[Burnt Toast]

How did he know where to cross the creek? He's out there in the open trying to control two girls and he's looking for a place to cross the creek where his feet won't get wet. Sounds like you're saying this was well planned.

or he knew the area very very well and did not have to think twice as to where to cross.

 

[jillycat]

What is the reference to of not looking upward???

Is someone implying that the girls were hanging???




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Yes, there was a mention of the girls not being found, perhaps, because the searchers were looking down not up, and another poster wondered as well if there was a hanging aspect to the crime. I also said I wondered given several factors there's no point in repeating again. I don't believe anyone is advancing that as necessarily likely, rather, it was a thought based on them not being seen during the first search. That's all it was.

I have no idea how they were killed or found but I do think they died at the hands of a seasoned predator, not a drug dealer or the PO.

 

[TheVisual]

Their feet wouldn't still be wet the following day when the bodies were found.

Nevertheless even if they had dried out a good forensic person would know.

 

[Burnt Toast]

My son died in 2010. In our case, we provided the obituary to the local newspaper, along with the date. The coroner didn't have anything to do with it. This might be a small town thing or it might just be a MY town thing.

it is the same as a big town. My family supplied all the info to the paper for the obituary when my brother died. The coroner had nothing to do with it.

 

[DeDee]

It looks like an easy, short walk from the bodies to the cemetery, and I'm convinced that the suspect committed the murders close to where his vehicle was parked. It seems quite possible that the suspect saw the girls being dropped off, parked at the cemetery, walked to Deer River, crossed to the other side, walked up the hill to the bridge, passed the girls, and then turned around and abducted them.

View attachment 114533

It was also the closest and easiest access point to where the girls were found. At the southwest corner of the cemetery there is a path that heads south and if you follow it all the way down you will end up at the creek. At the bottom you can walk about 200 to 300 feet to where the girls were found.

Thanks, guys. The final CS was just over the property line belonging to RL, if the is location marked is accurate.

The two girls did not cross the creek. They went down the hill to a waiting vehicle. What happened to the two girls did not occur in the woods. That is my firm opinion. How did BG know that the back of the cemetery would lead to the creek?

 

[Burnt Toast]

I think the death certificate for one of them was the 14th and one died on the 13th.

Why would the family's pick different dates unless the dates were different as it seems almost disrespectful to the girls who stuck together until the end ?

my guess is that the families did not get together to discuss the obituary. To me it looks like one family choose the day they were last seen and the other the day they were found.

 

[LadyL]

[bbm]

link please

Generally speaking every single aspect of the crime matters. Every element tells you something about the killer(s). Ironically, in most crimes LE doesn't care about every element and especially prosecutors don't care about most of them as they only need the things that meet the statutory requirements to prove a crime and who did it. However, when you don't have the slightest clue as to who the perpetrator(s) is then every element is important.

So, for example, understanding the elements and the order of the elements can give us some insight on whether or not the killer(s) were organized, the level of planning, their use of time, their understanding of the topography, etc. Most important, if possible, is to identify any possible mistakes the perpetrator(s) made as there is no such thing as the perfect crime. Many of these characteristics will be present in the day to day lives of the killer(s). These aren't the kinds of skills that only manifest themselves when they go out to kill.

Because LE is holding back information much time and discussion concerns discovering things that LE already knows (but won't tell us) so we can make better informed theories of the crime and use that to better identify potential suspects in order to make the tip that gets the killer(s).

 

[Burnt Toast]

In my opinion, If RL was the murderer he would've been charged with double counts of murder by now, not probation violation for drinking and driving.

I have a theory that BG came across the girls right after they were dropped off. BG immediately became infatuated with ABBY and LIbby noticed this but kept it a secret (not telling ABBY) thinking nothing untoward would come of it. As they walked past him, BG stops to glance back at his prey walking deeper into the trail and deciding right then and there to bring his fantasy to fruition. In my opinion he deliberated with himself of how to carry out this crime. There was an extra person he had no use for, but to get to ABBY he had to subdue both of them or risk losing ABBY forever. BG, in my opinion, was angry that LIBBY was there. She was his only obstacle in his way. BG made his way back up the trail to carry out his devilish deed, but to his consternation, the girls were on that rickety bridge! But the plan was in motion and he wasnt going to allow no bridge to stop him, and besides they were still in his domain. At what point ABBY and LIBBY noticed him I dont know. My theory is BG never focused on LIbby thus giving her ample time to record him. In my opinion i believe BG would not of attacked LIBBY if she was there alone as she is not his ideal victim type. Ted Budy had his type, jeffrey Dhamer had his type, BG too has his preferences. This only my theory.

Another theory I have is BG took a memento from one of the victims he most preferred and it could've been anything from earrings, underwear, rings, ID cards, necklace, et cetera. I believe that none of these items were recovered at RL home thus excluding him from the crime. Unless RL dug hole and buried the girls belongings in a tiny chest.

Another poster on here had mentioned her theory of a duo or a pair of killers working in tandem with each other. Although rare it is not unheard of in the annals of crime history. If that is the case, one killer has dominant qualities and the other has submissive qualities. In my opinion if we're dealing with two devils in this case then BG is the more dominant personality of the duo as it was him who solely corralled the girls.

how do you know what LE and the FBI seized from the search at RL's?

 

[Bemused]

Is the crime scene the purview of CCSO or Delphi PD? My impression is it's county due to the mention of deputies on the 13th and that the Sheriff has said his office has lead. I thought ISP did because one of the PIOs said on Twitter that official notices would come through ISP.

 

[Burnt Toast]

The water temperature was likely in the mid to upper 30's. Would you, as teens, go traipsing through water that cold? That would make your feet quite cold and they would stay cold. The brain's response to such things is to make it worse by restricting circulation to the extremities such as your feet (along with hands are the first things). So, that is what the problem is with crossing the creek at all.

It gets worse if it were any deeper than ankle high. Wet clothes, particularly denim, soak in a lot water (I am sure you know just how much heavier wet jeans are compared to dry jeans) and that will end up in contact with the skin. So cold legs that won't get any warmer - water is 20 times more efficient in transferring heat than air and in this circumstance the water is going to draw heat from the body remarkably fast until the temperature of the wet denim and the surface skin of the legs are the same which will be quite a lot below 98.6 degrees (much closer to the air temperature which was about 43 degrees) and the brain will respond to this by restricting blood flow to the upper skin layers of the legs. All of the restricted blow flow reduces oxygen to the muscles and makes it harder to use those muscles. You tire quickly - well, because the muscles need the oxygen.

The only way to not be really cold is to remove the wet clothes/shoes and replace with dry clothes/shoes in a warm place.

BG would have this problem. I can't imagine that he would find having very cold feet (or worse, legs) bearable for any length of time. It is more than being wet. "slippery rocks" or "this could be dangerous" would or should have been the least of the concerns. If BG and the girls crossed the creek - which I strongly believe did not happen - BG would have discovered all of this the hard way.

perhaps he was just minutes away from dry clothing at this house.

 

[otto]

Thanks, guys. The final CS was just over the property line belonging to RL, if the is location marked is accurate.

The two girls did not cross the creek. They went down the hill to a waiting vehicle. What happened to the two girls did not occur in the woods. That is my firm opinion. How did BG know that the back of the cemetery would lead to the creek?

Occam's Razor - the most obvious solution, regardless of how improbably that may be, is usually the correct solution. The girls were abducted at the SE end of the bridge. They were told to go down the hill. Their bodies were found pretty much straight North across the river. A short walk North of the bodies is the cemetery. There was a huge police presence at the cemetery, meaning that location is significant.

I don't see any reason to introduce a theory that the girls were driven to some other location, murdered, driven back to the area where they were abducted (an area that would be swarming with searchers and police), and then dragged, one by one, to the river.

 

[AFTM]

I seem to get a feeling of loss when I visit here anymore. I am afraid that BG right now is far from being convicted of this crime. His arrest seems to be drifting away lately, I hope I am wrong.

My dreams are filled with the girls being upset that nothing is being done. May this strengthen our resolve to search without ceasing for BG. Keep posting that picture someone knows him. It just hasn't clicked yet.


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[Elle*Bee]

I thought they found a lot of blood at crime scene. If so, they were killed there, you do not bleed to much after death. The heart stops beating and pumping the blood.

Just a thought....


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I must have missed this. Do you have a link that discusses whether there was blood found at the crime scene? Thanks in advance!

 

[eastcoasterinco]

Just a typical silly question from me:

Att he end of the day, does it matter who currently has Libby's phone?

Can you make an argurment for why it would be important for LE to physically have it? I mean, isn't everything she put on it "on the cloud" so to speak?

sorry in advance.
BTW, I live on an Island and we do not have cell phones due to crummy and sporadic reception. So perhaps my question is very dumb...

IMO it would be interesting to know whether or not LE has possession of the physical phone because there were reports by a family member of one of the girls that their phone was "pinging around town". This was early on during the preliminary searches I can't remember which local news broadcast at the moment.

I've been curious because this info may help us understand whether or not the suspect had the phone after the murders or maybe even transported the girls in a vehicle causing pings to various cell towers.

All IMO


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[puppyraiser]

Occam's Razor - the most obvious solution, regardless of how improbably that may be, is usually the correct solution. The girls were abducted at the SE end of the bridge. They were told to go down the hill. Their bodies were found pretty much straight North across the river. A short walk North of the bodies is the cemetery. There was a huge police presence at the cemetery, meaning that location is significant.

I don't see any reason to introduce a theory that the girls were driven to some other location, murdered, driven back to the area where they were abducted (an area that would be swarming with searchers and police), and then dragged, one by one, to the river.

View attachment 114557

Or the heavy police presence is because that area provided the quickest and easiest access to the location the girls were found.

 

[Molecularblonde]

IMO it would be interesting to know whether or not LE has possession of the physical phone because there were reports by a family member of one of the girls that their phone was "pinging around town". This was early on during the preliminary searches I can't remember which local news broadcast at the moment.

I've been curious because this info may help us understand whether or not the suspect had the phone after the murders or maybe even transported the girls in a vehicle causing pings to various cell towers.

All IMO


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You bring up some excellent points.
Since I do not have a cell phone, I always forget that it can be a sort of mini GPS...